The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

I'm a big fan of the whole Row the Boat theme. I think it's a great locker room motivator and it's great branding on his part. Rest assured it's put PJ and the WMU program in the college football conversation, as well as taking some of the stigma off the word "cocksman" (not sure on the spelling), and has really helped oar sales in this area of Michigan.

But while I see the upsides, I am concerned about the downside, particularly after last night.

When ESPN is sticking a camera man behind you and the announcers are making snarky comments about your sideline boat rowing...........I'm not sure that plays well to a national audience. There's a fine line from being a media darling and being toxic.

Second, when some of the finest most disciplined young men in the country (the AF players) score, and then mock the boat rowing, then perhaps all that rowing has motivated the opposing team as much as our own team.

On the plus side all that boat rowing may have scared away future P5 suitors who simply aren't ready for boat rowing on their sidelines, although he'd be a great fit at Navy.

I'm hoping PJ dials back the sideline boat rowing and only pulls it out only on special occasions. Make boat rowing a special moment.

Your thoughts........

Good post of the pros and cons. I largely agree. Wouldn't mind dialing it back a bit, too.

I think you're also right in that Fleck's 'unconventional style' may turn off some P5 suitors who worry about incorporating it into their brand. And I'm sure Fleck knows that as well.

I'm not sure how opponents are really interpreting the in-game rowing. But I don't see any of Fleck's RTB stuff intended as poking or goading the other team. Always been internal focused.

Yes, that in game rowing is troublesome

(12-21-2014 11:04 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  Rest assured it's put PJ and the WMU program in the college football conversation, as well as taking some of the stigma off the word "cocksman" (not sure on the spelling), and has really helped ore sales in this area of Michigan.

Coxswain would be the proper spelling. By definition, it is the person in charge of the boat.

Most of the "ore" comes from the UP.

(12-21-2014 11:04 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  I'm a big fan of the whole Row the Boat theme. I think it's a great locker room motivator and it's great branding on his part. Rest assured it's put PJ and the WMU program in the college football conversation, as well as taking some of the stigma off the word "cocksman" (not sure on the spelling), and has really helped ore sales in this area of Michigan.

But while I see the upsides, I am concerned about the downside, particularly after last night.

When ESPN is sticking a camera man behind you and the announcers are making snarky comments about your sideline boat rowing...........I'm not sure that plays well to a national audience. There's a fine line from being a media darling and being toxic.

Second, when some of the finest most disciplined young men in the country (the AF players) score, and then mock the boat rowing, then perhaps all that rowing has motivated the opposing team as much as our own team.

On the plus side all that boat rowing may have scared away future P5 suitors who simply aren't ready for boat rowing on their sidelines, although he'd be a great fit at Navy.

I'm hoping PJ dials back the sideline boat rowing and only pulls it out only on special occasions. Make boat rowing a special moment.

Your thoughts........

It's going to happen. The mocking I mean. You take the bad with the good in this case. I find it funny that every coach has motivational sayings, yet PJ's is so polarizing, in large part due to him marketing the crap out of it. But the bottom line is the players like it, recruits like it, and it comes from a genuine place from PJ, so there is passion behind what he believes. It's that passion that is making him a dynamic leader. There is a reason that despite just 9 wins in 25 games, other schools were throwing his name around.

RTB isn't going anywhere. I've been over this for a while.

On the other hand this could really lead to something special in college and professional sports.

Hawks motto is "Fight On."
Perhaps he could shadow box on the sidelines as his way of motivating the team to "fight on" we need this bucket.

Chip Kelly of the Eagles
Stand on the sideline and flap his arms as a way of motivating his players to soar like eagles.

Lovey Smith
He could wear an eye patch and yell "Arrr matties, punch er in to the endzone!

Butch Jones
Could wear a coon skin cap on the sidelines and pretend he's shooting the opposing players like a Tennessee Volunteer.

Seriously, Fleck may be on to the next big thing.

I have a few thoughts. I am fine with the team having a mantra. I can certainly see it as a good thing especially for the players in their training and practicing. I am also fine with it having some outside the locker room exposure. Seeing it on t-shirts, a little bit around the stadium (“row” on the goals posts & RTB on the entrance tunnel), and the small “Row” on the front of the helmet is fine by me too.

Here is where I am having problems. I really dislike the fourth quarter song. I am not a fan of having it plastered all over the uniforms/helmet in the form of oars. I think it overall needs to be toned down a little bit. I voted too much rowing. Just tone it down a little bit and I will be happy.

I was not able to watch most of the game. I know there are mixed feelings about this but I agree with MRBUTTONS on this quote.

Quote:WHAT REALLY TICKED ME OFF WAS THE TWO TIMES AIR FORCE PLAYERS MOCKED THE ROWING THE BOAT. AFTER THE 2 PT CONVERSION AND AFTER THE LAST TOUCHDOWN.

I would expect it out of CMU. but not a United States military academy.. IT WAS A CLASSLESS ACT TWICE REPEATED THAT THE CAMERAS CAUGHT.

I really don’t like this mockery. It really is classless. I am very disappointed that one of our military academies would stoop to that level. Let’s keep what is good about the RTB mantra and tone down the rest.

(12-21-2014 11:35 AM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  It's going to happen. The mocking I mean. You take the bad with the good in this case. I find it funny that every coach has motivational sayings, yet PJ's is so polarizing, in large part due to him marketing the crap out of it. But the bottom line is the players like it, recruits like it, and it comes from a genuine place from PJ, so there is passion behind what he believes. It's that passion that is making him a dynamic leader. There is a reason that despite just 9 wins in 25 games, other schools were throwing his name around.

RTB isn't going anywhere. I've been over this for a while.

Kids can be fickle. Sure they like it now. But will they like it if the MSU and OSU players are running up the score on them and mocking it as AF did?

It's great foder sp for half time speeches. "Now let's get out there men and shove that ore up his boat rowing azz!"

No, I'm hoping he tones down the in game sideline boat rowing.

(12-21-2014 11:34 AM)chipfan Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 11:04 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  Rest assured it's put PJ and the WMU program in the college football conversation, as well as taking some of the stigma off the word "cocksman" (not sure on the spelling), and has really helped ore sales in this area of Michigan.

Coxswain would be the proper spelling. By definition, it is the person in charge of the boat.

Most of the "ore" comes from the UP.

Thanks. I knew it was cox something or cocks something. One of those cocks.

Yes, I've got to go back and fix those oars.

Don't forget to vote. Send your friends over. Their vote counts too.

(12-21-2014 11:42 AM)WesternSkillet Wrote:  I really don’t like this mockery. It really is classless. I am very disappointed that one of our military academies would stoop to that level. Let’s keep what is good about the RTB mantra and tone down the rest.

Yeah but think about it. Those Air Force guys have spent four years being trained in how to respect the chain of command. Yet Fleck rowing the boat got them so fired up they threw out all of that training and became just like the guys at the U (Miami) during the 80's.

If it can get them unhinged imagine what a bunch of OSU reprobates will be doing if we're down 35-zip and PJ is boat rowing on the sidelines.

let Em mock all they want ....I was hoping it would motivate the hell out of the WMU players.. we need more cow bell .....I mean boat rowing,!!!!

I voted and probably don't need to even say how I voted or explain why. Other than to say. I still think it's absolutely ridiculous.

Imagine that

Wow, we have two votes for more sideline boat rowing.

I tend to agree that it's getting slightly excessive... for the first time last night I looked at the oars on shoulders, the two oars on the helmets, RTB on the sleeves, "row" on the helmets, etc... and kind of thought to myself... It's getting a little overdone.

Less is more.

What I fear is that it becomes so overdone that it loses it's zeal too quick.

That being said, I still don't have a problem with the "Row the Boat" thing overall, and don't mind any of the game day stuff sprinkled in.

(12-21-2014 11:36 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  On the other hand this could really lead to something special in college and professional sports.

Hawks motto is "Fight On."
Perhaps he could shadow box on the sidelines as his way of motivating the team to "fight on" we need this bucket.

Chip Kelly of the Eagles
Stand on the sideline and flap his arms as a way of motivating his players to soar like eagles.

Lovey Smith
He could wear an eye patch and yell "Arrr matties, punch er in to the endzone!

Butch Jones
Could wear a coon skin cap on the sidelines and pretend he's shooting the opposing players like a Tennessee Volunteer.

Seriously, Fleck may be on to the next big thing.

But there in lies the difference. They'd be paying homage to their teams traditions and be building upon them. Fleck is disregarding and disrespecting anything at WMU prior to his regime. Many power 5 programs will not look positively on that.

Take the crap off the uniforms and I'd be fine with it. You're already playing from behind when one of your colors is brown.
Also how does one feel elite?

It is only a problem if we begin to think the message is the medium.

The medium is football. Ultimately the only thing that matters is how well you play football.

The hype is exciting. I love the HowMountain video. The mantra is catchy. The pre game talks are emotional. When there is adversity you keep rowing. Fine.

But you have to play football. Impose your will. Make the plays.

It is easy to think, we will pay big money and our committment will help us win. We will all buy in, display an oar, row the boat and we will win.

No. You play better football, that is how you win.

The structure, the group think, the donor support, all of that is fine. But that is not the game. Slogans do not do the winnig. You still have to play football.

Don't let the message obscure the medium.

I'm fine with AF rowing the boat.

They got it right. The receiver catches the ball for a 2 point conversion, then rows the boat. That is the correct order. You make the play, then you say, see, this is how I row the boat.

You don't row the boat manically, thinking, gee, if I just row hard enough, we will make the play. That's not how it works. You make the play to make the play.

So the AF guy is just trying to be helpful. He's saying, see? This is how you do it. A good message and something to learn from. If you make the play you will send a message. Not if you send the message you will make the play.

(12-22-2014 07:44 AM)numbersdontlie Wrote:  Take the crap off the uniforms and I'd be fine with it. You're already playing from behind when one of your colors is brown.
Also how does one feel elite?

I'd like the oars off, but I love the brown. It's unique (well, aside from Wyoming). We jumped on the black bandwagon around Y2K, and it looked alright. But when 97% of the teams out there either have black as one if their main colors or trot out "special" all-black unis for big games, it just looks ordinary.