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Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
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OldOwl Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
You have to get the students excited first before worrying about Houston.
(12-23-2014 05:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(12-23-2014 10:54 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Who is this "we" to whom you refer? Is it the 12,000 fairly regular Rice fans who typically show up for an average home game? That won't do it, if I understand your point. There is no way to increase the attendance numbers in a meaningful way while in this conference....

Then we will never get out of this conference. That is the reality. In order to get out of this conference, we have to improve both our won/lost record AND our attendance while we are a member of this conference.

We need to develop RICE fans who come to see RICE play regardless of the opponent, not people who come because we are playing UT or LSU or aTm. With the exception of the CDC era, the current athletic director is the first one to understand that in the last 50 years.
12-23-2014 11:27 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
(12-23-2014 11:27 PM)OldOwl Wrote:  You have to get the students excited first before worrying about Houston.
(12-23-2014 05:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(12-23-2014 10:54 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Who is this "we" to whom you refer? Is it the 12,000 fairly regular Rice fans who typically show up for an average home game? That won't do it, if I understand your point. There is no way to increase the attendance numbers in a meaningful way while in this conference....
Then we will never get out of this conference. That is the reality. In order to get out of this conference, we have to improve both our won/lost record AND our attendance while we are a member of this conference.
We need to develop RICE fans who come to see RICE play regardless of the opponent, not people who come because we are playing UT or LSU or aTm. With the exception of the CDC era, the current athletic director is the first one to understand that in the last 50 years.

Conversation repeated way, way too many times in the past.

Owl 69/70/75: We really need to get students to come to games.
Athletic Director (any of several, not the incumbent): Why? They don't pay anything.

I will amend an earlier comment slightly. This is the one time I've heard prior AD's mention revenue.
12-24-2014 08:16 AM
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waltgreenberg Online
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Post: #63
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
(12-23-2014 11:27 PM)OldOwl Wrote:  You have to get the students excited first before worrying about Houston.
(12-23-2014 05:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(12-23-2014 10:54 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Who is this "we" to whom you refer? Is it the 12,000 fairly regular Rice fans who typically show up for an average home game? That won't do it, if I understand your point. There is no way to increase the attendance numbers in a meaningful way while in this conference....

Then we will never get out of this conference. That is the reality. In order to get out of this conference, we have to improve both our won/lost record AND our attendance while we are a member of this conference.

We need to develop RICE fans who come to see RICE play regardless of the opponent, not people who come because we are playing UT or LSU or aTm. With the exception of the CDC era, the current athletic director is the first one to understand that in the last 50 years.

+1. I'll share with you a response I just got from Dr. K when I shared with him IlliniOwl's great post (preceded by my own McKinsey Study revisit). This is an except of his e-mail response to me, and confirms how bad the situation was that he inherited, and points to the business discipline and analytics that he's instituted (but will take some time to show results)...

"...my argument to the university last spring, which was successful, was to support additional positions to help us enhance our self-generated revenues. We have about $500K more invested in new positions and technologies that I believe will boost giving, attendance, sponsorships, and new revenues to help us look more like a bona fide Division I FBS program. If you doubt how far we’ve fallen behind, I can sum it up … Nebraska did more in volleyball ticket sales last year than we did in all sports COMBINED. Our dismal numbers can be partially explained by our conference affiliation, but I also know that we’ve used no business intelligence whatsoever in driving revenue prior to 2014-15. Give us time, and I guarantee you will see results...."
12-24-2014 09:34 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
(12-24-2014 09:34 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  +1. I'll share with you a response I just got from Dr. K when I shared with him IlliniOwl's great post (preceded by my own McKinsey Study revisit). This is an except of his e-mail response to me, and confirms how bad the situation was that he inherited, and points to the business discipline and analytics that he's instituted (but will take some time to show results)...
"...my argument to the university last spring, which was successful, was to support additional positions to help us enhance our self-generated revenues. We have about $500K more invested in new positions and technologies that I believe will boost giving, attendance, sponsorships, and new revenues to help us look more like a bona fide Division I FBS program. If you doubt how far we’ve fallen behind, I can sum it up … Nebraska did more in volleyball ticket sales last year than we did in all sports COMBINED. Our dismal numbers can be partially explained by our conference affiliation, but I also know that we’ve used no business intelligence whatsoever in driving revenue prior to 2014-15. Give us time, and I guarantee you will see results...."

Reading this, do you start to get some comprehension of just how badly things have been run around this athletic department for 50 years?
12-24-2014 10:27 AM
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ESE84 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
(12-23-2014 11:22 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(12-23-2014 09:37 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  I'm not sure about CUSA having a home and home 2 year schedule for out of division games. We played Florida Atlantic last year at home and Florida International away this year.

My guess ( and that's what it is... A guess) is that our East division opponents will be thre that we haven't played recently. WKU, MTU and Chatlotte. Two at HRS. One away.

Remember, though, everything was thrown off by the departures of Tulsa, Tulane and East Carolina. So, 2013 probably was unconnected to 2014. But, I'm just guessing.

This Old Dominion blog, borrowed from the main C-USA Board, provides insight.

http://hamptonroads.com/2014/12/football...am-league#

My take is the random draw happens first on who in the East will only play 5 games in the East and 3 in the West. Then the schedule gets filled. We could have all new opponents from the East again, although it does make some sense to protect match-ups like Rice-Marshall for strength of schedule reasons if one of us has an Access Bowl qualifying season.
12-24-2014 10:37 AM
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Long Time Owl Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
I'm hoping he turns things around and told him so when he started. He told me he would do his best. So far so good.
12-24-2014 11:09 AM
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Pimpa Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
(12-24-2014 09:34 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(12-23-2014 11:27 PM)OldOwl Wrote:  You have to get the students excited first before worrying about Houston.
(12-23-2014 05:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(12-23-2014 10:54 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Who is this "we" to whom you refer? Is it the 12,000 fairly regular Rice fans who typically show up for an average home game? That won't do it, if I understand your point. There is no way to increase the attendance numbers in a meaningful way while in this conference....

Then we will never get out of this conference. That is the reality. In order to get out of this conference, we have to improve both our won/lost record AND our attendance while we are a member of this conference.

We need to develop RICE fans who come to see RICE play regardless of the opponent, not people who come because we are playing UT or LSU or aTm. With the exception of the CDC era, the current athletic director is the first one to understand that in the last 50 years.

+1. I'll share with you a response I just got from Dr. K when I shared with him IlliniOwl's great post (preceded by my own McKinsey Study revisit). This is an except of his e-mail response to me, and confirms how bad the situation was that he inherited, and points to the business discipline and analytics that he's instituted (but will take some time to show results)...

"...my argument to the university last spring, which was successful, was to support additional positions to help us enhance our self-generated revenues. We have about $500K more invested in new positions and technologies that I believe will boost giving, attendance, sponsorships, and new revenues to help us look more like a bona fide Division I FBS program. If you doubt how far we’ve fallen behind, I can sum it up … Nebraska did more in volleyball ticket sales last year than we did in all sports COMBINED. Our dismal numbers can be partially explained by our conference affiliation, but I also know that we’ve used no business intelligence whatsoever in driving revenue prior to 2014-15. Give us time, and I guarantee you will see results...."

Thanks for emailing Dr. K and posting his response, Walt. I admire his candor, and love his confidence. I continue to feel good about the direction of the department under his leadership.
12-24-2014 11:45 AM
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waltgreenberg Online
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Post: #68
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
(12-24-2014 11:45 AM)Pimpa Wrote:  
(12-24-2014 09:34 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(12-23-2014 11:27 PM)OldOwl Wrote:  You have to get the students excited first before worrying about Houston.
(12-23-2014 05:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(12-23-2014 10:54 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Who is this "we" to whom you refer? Is it the 12,000 fairly regular Rice fans who typically show up for an average home game? That won't do it, if I understand your point. There is no way to increase the attendance numbers in a meaningful way while in this conference....

Then we will never get out of this conference. That is the reality. In order to get out of this conference, we have to improve both our won/lost record AND our attendance while we are a member of this conference.

We need to develop RICE fans who come to see RICE play regardless of the opponent, not people who come because we are playing UT or LSU or aTm. With the exception of the CDC era, the current athletic director is the first one to understand that in the last 50 years.

+1. I'll share with you a response I just got from Dr. K when I shared with him IlliniOwl's great post (preceded by my own McKinsey Study revisit). This is an except of his e-mail response to me, and confirms how bad the situation was that he inherited, and points to the business discipline and analytics that he's instituted (but will take some time to show results)...

"...my argument to the university last spring, which was successful, was to support additional positions to help us enhance our self-generated revenues. We have about $500K more invested in new positions and technologies that I believe will boost giving, attendance, sponsorships, and new revenues to help us look more like a bona fide Division I FBS program. If you doubt how far we’ve fallen behind, I can sum it up … Nebraska did more in volleyball ticket sales last year than we did in all sports COMBINED. Our dismal numbers can be partially explained by our conference affiliation, but I also know that we’ve used no business intelligence whatsoever in driving revenue prior to 2014-15. Give us time, and I guarantee you will see results...."

Thanks for emailing Dr. K and posting his response, Walt. I admire his candor, and love his confidence. I continue to feel good about the direction of the department under his leadership.

I'll share one further excerpt from Dr. K's response which preceded the comment in quotes above...

"... I think it’s important to note that I am a strong believer that we not perpetuate the welfare state of Rice Athletics. True that we will always need some support from the university, but we cannot survive without significantly boosting our transactional and philanthropic revenue streams..."

In other words, he's tired of hearing alums complain about the lack of University support when, in reality, the University's subsidy is substantial and larger than at most other schools. It's due time for the alums to put up or shut up, with the confidence that the Athletic Department will be doing it's part to grow revenues through sponsorships and increased ticket sales.
12-24-2014 11:52 AM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
(12-24-2014 08:16 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Owl 69/70/75: We really need to get students to come to games.
Athletic Director (any of several, not the incumbent): Why? They don't pay anything.

03-banghead

It costs Rice exactly the same amount of money to run a football game, whether there are 2000 or 20000 people in the stands. Those that don't pay anything 1. become fans that may pay someday 2. Buy food and drinks and contribute to ancillary revenue.

#1 being the most important. Not developing a student fan base explains the age demographics of our Rice fans
12-24-2014 12:26 PM
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Afflicted Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
I feel very confident in Karlgaard. He seems to be a very smart individual with a lot of vision. He understands athletics as well as business.
12-24-2014 01:48 PM
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RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
I no longer think we play in a "terrible" conference, just a G5 conference. C-USA is no worse than the MWC, actually it could have more potential than the MWC and was probably better this season after the bowls. It's better than the MAC and Sun Belt. C-USA has done well vs AAC, and that conference was behind the MWC in the conference power rankings (coming into the bowl season). Doesn't mean it's a great fit for Rice, with so few traditional rivalries and like-minded schools, but as far as quality, I think C-USA is one of the better G5 conferences now, the bowl record supports that. We've been playing in a "G5" since 1996. We've been downplaying the win totals from the past few seasons a little too much IMO.
12-27-2014 12:20 PM
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Post: #72
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
(12-24-2014 12:26 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(12-24-2014 08:16 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Owl 69/70/75: We really need to get students to come to games.
Athletic Director (any of several, not the incumbent): Why? They don't pay anything.
03-banghead
It costs Rice exactly the same amount of money to run a football game, whether there are 2000 or 20000 people in the stands. Those that don't pay anything 1. become fans that may pay someday 2. Buy food and drinks and contribute to ancillary revenue.
#1 being the most important. Not developing a student fan base explains the age demographics of our Rice fans

Exactly.
12-27-2014 12:38 PM
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Post: #73
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
(12-27-2014 12:20 PM)Buho00 Wrote:  I no longer think we play in a "terrible" conference, just a G5 conference. C-USA is no worse than the MWC, actually it could have more potential than the MWC and was probably better this season after the bowls. It's better than the MAC and Sun Belt. C-USA has done well vs AAC, and that conference was behind the MWC in the conference power rankings (coming into the bowl season). Doesn't mean it's a great fit for Rice, with so few traditional rivalries and like-minded schools, but as far as quality, I think C-USA is one of the better G5 conferences now, the bowl record supports that. We've been playing in a "G5" since 1996. We've been downplaying the win totals from the past few seasons a little too much IMO.

I think C-USA has some up and coming programs and while I miss playing UH, I think playing UNT, UTSA, and UTEP and beating them are ok alternatives for now. They are programs on the rise with large local alumni bases that can come to HRS for games and boost our attendance.
12-27-2014 01:02 PM
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Barney Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
(12-24-2014 12:26 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(12-24-2014 08:16 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Owl 69/70/75: We really need to get students to come to games.
Athletic Director (any of several, not the incumbent): Why? They don't pay anything.

03-banghead

It costs Rice exactly the same amount of money to run a football game, whether there are 2000 or 20000 people in the stands. Those that don't pay anything 1. become fans that may pay someday 2. Buy food and drinks and contribute to ancillary revenue.

#1 being the most important. Not developing a student fan base explains the age demographics of our Rice fans

Agree.
And #3 is that it's the main thing that enhances the college football atmosphere at a small school. It simply makes the gameday experience more fun for everyone else....who will then be much more likely to return. (and as I've said many times before, it's also why we need to get the MOB back in shape asap)
12-27-2014 02:27 PM
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ESE84 Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
(12-27-2014 01:02 PM)owl95 Wrote:  I think C-USA has some up and coming programs and while I miss playing UH, I think playing UNT, UTSA, and UTEP and beating them are ok alternatives for now. They are programs on the rise with large local alumni bases that can come to HRS for games and boost our attendance.

We don't have to change conferences to start playing UH again.

UNT, UTSA, UTEP and Louisiana Tech probably are better for HRS attendance than SMU, Tulsa, Tulane and Memphis.
12-27-2014 04:08 PM
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greyowl72 Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
(12-27-2014 04:08 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(12-27-2014 01:02 PM)owl95 Wrote:  I think C-USA has some up and coming programs and while I miss playing UH, I think playing UNT, UTSA, and UTEP and beating them are ok alternatives for now. They are programs on the rise with large local alumni bases that can come to HRS for games and boost our attendance.

We don't have to change conferences to start playing UH again.

UNT, UTSA, UTEP and Louisiana Tech probably are better for HRS attendance than SMU, Tulsa, Tulane and Memphis.

No doubt.
12-27-2014 04:38 PM
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Post: #77
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
(12-27-2014 04:08 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(12-27-2014 01:02 PM)owl95 Wrote:  I think C-USA has some up and coming programs and while I miss playing UH, I think playing UNT, UTSA, and UTEP and beating them are ok alternatives for now. They are programs on the rise with large local alumni bases that can come to HRS for games and boost our attendance.

We don't have to change conferences to start playing UH again.

UNT, UTSA, UTEP and Louisiana Tech probably are better for HRS attendance than SMU, Tulsa, Tulane and Memphis.

There's no doubt our current division mates are better for attendance than SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, and Memphis. Throw in an annual game against UH, and it's the best Rice could hope for outside of P5 membership. CUSA is the best spot for Rice unless the B12 or SEC comes calling.
12-27-2014 04:51 PM
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Post: #78
RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
(12-27-2014 04:51 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  
(12-27-2014 04:08 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(12-27-2014 01:02 PM)owl95 Wrote:  I think C-USA has some up and coming programs and while I miss playing UH, I think playing UNT, UTSA, and UTEP and beating them are ok alternatives for now. They are programs on the rise with large local alumni bases that can come to HRS for games and boost our attendance.

We don't have to change conferences to start playing UH again.

UNT, UTSA, UTEP and Louisiana Tech probably are better for HRS attendance than SMU, Tulsa, Tulane and Memphis.

There's no doubt our current division mates are better for attendance than SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, and Memphis. Throw in an annual game against UH, and it's the best Rice could hope for outside of P5 membership. CUSA is the best spot for Rice unless the B12 or SEC comes calling.

Yep... and if they did, we'd want to schedule UNT, UTSA, UH and perhaps UTEP and LaTech OOC
12-27-2014 05:32 PM
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Post: #79
Re: RE: Should/could CUSA raid the MWC?
(12-27-2014 04:08 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(12-27-2014 01:02 PM)owl95 Wrote:  I think C-USA has some up and coming programs and while I miss playing UH, I think playing UNT, UTSA, and UTEP and beating them are ok alternatives for now. They are programs on the rise with large local alumni bases that can come to HRS for games and boost our attendance.

We don't have to change conferences to start playing UH again.

UNT, UTSA, UTEP and Louisiana Tech probably are better for HRS attendance than SMU, Tulsa, Tulane and Memphis.

I would definitely rather be on the west side of CUSA for purposes of attendance and developing rivalries than in CUSA east
12-27-2014 06:08 PM
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