I could be wrong, but I don't think this guy and his fellow libs like America very much.

Quote: [W]hile founded on the ethnic cleansing of the continent’s original inhabitants and the enslavement of its African workforce, the news – or rather, confirmation – that the CIA employed a revolting range of “enhanced” torture techniques in the wake of 9/11 is being portrayed by some as a vile exception to the United States’ otherwise exceptional history; a “stain on our values and history,” in the words of Senator Dianne Feinstein, whose committee released the report detailing the agency’s use of near-drownings and mock executions and sexual abuse to humiliate and demoralize a foreign “other” under the guise of gathering intelligence. These practices, the terrible things this country has again and again been shown to do, “are not who we are,” added Secretary of State John Kerry. Indeed, “the awful facts of this report” do not even “represent who they are,” he said of those awful people described in that report (“its important that this period not define the intelligence community in anyone’s mind,” he continued).

As a rhetorical ploy, it’s understandable: Saying the United States has always been garbage is not going to be terribly popular in a nation that still fondly refers to a group of sadistic slave-owners as its “founding fathers” — so politicians savvy enough to know that openly embracing torture is not a good look for the world’s leading state-sponsor of holier-than-thou rhetoric, appeal to a history and set of values that never was and never were in practice, as a way to give political cover to their middling, public relations-minded critiques of the national-security state’s least defensible excesses. It’s entirely false, this narrative of extreme goodness marked by occasional self-correcting imperfection, but it satisfies our national ego to think the American phoenix rises from a store of ethically traded gold, not a pile of rotting trash.

http://www.salon.com/2014/12/16/america_...socialflow

I wouldn't go as far as saying America is garbage, but I do say that we've never lived up to the myth. The Founding Fathers were--a good deal--slave owners of varying styles. Some never owned any and some were really against the practice.

I think the myth of what we are, or at least once were, was largely manufactured after the lives of the Founders. Not to say that we haven't done some great things, we've also done pretty horrible things to almost every group here.

The idiot who wrote this doesn't know "bad".

(12-17-2014 10:27 AM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  I could be wrong, but I don't think this guy and his fellow libs like America very much.

And yet, he chooses to live here. He's clueless.

(12-17-2014 10:41 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I wouldn't go as far as saying America is garbage, but I do say that we've never lived up to the myth. The Founding Fathers were--a good deal--slave owners of varying styles. Some never owned any and some were really against the practice.

I think the myth of what we are, or at least once were, was largely manufactured after the lives of the Founders. Not to say that we haven't done some great things, we've also done pretty horrible things to almost every group here.

True, but the author is trying to make a connection between America's founding and the recent CIA report, as if the former had any influence on the latter. More importantly, he attempts to distance himself from the idea of torture, as if he is one of those genteel souls that is incapable of harming a fly, let alone another human being. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The United States is the greatest country on the planet. Although some of the framers of our country might have been slave owners, they wrote the fairest government to date and it was that fairness that eventually led to all people being equal.

(12-17-2014 11:09 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  The United States is the greatest country on the planet. Although some of the framers of our country might have been slave owners, they wrote the fairest government to date and it was that fairness that eventually led to all people being equal.

I agree and what makes us great is that, for the most part, we learn from our past mistakes. We have never been, and never will be, perfect, but we try and correct past mistakes. That is a sign of a great nation.

We are also the first and only nation founded not because of common culture, ethnicity or even religion; but solely on the rule of law.

Don't click on the link and give that page traffic. All the article is meant to do is inflame people enough to click on it and get outraged by it. This Salon piece is an intentional troll job just to get page hits from people who want to be angry.

(12-17-2014 11:09 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  The United States is the greatest country on the planet. Although some of the framers of our country might have been slave owners, they wrote the fairest government to date and it was that fairness that eventually led to all people being equal.

I mean, really, who cares if they were slave owners? Does it make ANY difference at all today?

(12-17-2014 12:33 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 11:09 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  The United States is the greatest country on the planet. Although some of the framers of our country might have been slave owners, they wrote the fairest government to date and it was that fairness that eventually led to all people being equal.

I mean, really, who cares if they were slave owners? Does it make ANY difference at all today?

you really should scale back on comments like these.

Salon and Mother Jones are the biggest troll sites.

(12-17-2014 12:37 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 12:33 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 11:09 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  The United States is the greatest country on the planet. Although some of the framers of our country might have been slave owners, they wrote the fairest government to date and it was that fairness that eventually led to all people being equal.

I mean, really, who cares if they were slave owners? Does it make ANY difference at all today?

you really should scale back on comments like these.

Explain.

(12-17-2014 12:37 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 12:33 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 11:09 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  The United States is the greatest country on the planet. Although some of the framers of our country might have been slave owners, they wrote the fairest government to date and it was that fairness that eventually led to all people being equal.

I mean, really, who cares if they were slave owners? Does it make ANY difference at all today?

you really should scale back on comments like these.

Nevermind, don't even explain. You need to get off your high horse and quit acting like you're all powerful and knowing here. If you don't like my opinion or post, keep scrolling.

Consider the Source.

(12-17-2014 10:55 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 10:27 AM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  I could be wrong, but I don't think this guy and his fellow libs like America very much.

And yet, he chooses to live here. He's clueless.

And if he was offered relocation money to move to any other country in the world, with the caveat that he could never return to this country, he'd turn down the offer.

(12-17-2014 12:51 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 10:55 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 10:27 AM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  I could be wrong, but I don't think this guy and his fellow libs like America very much.

And yet, he chooses to live here. He's clueless.

And if he was offered relocation money to move to any other country in the world, with the caveat that he could never return to this country, he'd turn down the offer.

That's because he's striving to make America better. Laudable, but unlikely given the fact that his writing lacks nuance or context.

Americans of 200+ years ago who gave us what we have are bad.

Muslims who kills thousands upon thousands in the here and now need a hug while we drive them to work.

(12-17-2014 11:09 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  The United States is the greatest country on the planet. Although some of the framers of our country might have been slave owners, they wrote the fairest government to date and it was that fairness that eventually led to all people being equal.

Good job Fit. I am happy to say that we agree. It was common for land/plantation owners to have slaves in North, Central, and South America during this era. It was not an American founding fathers exclusive thing. These guys also put all of that on the table by declaring independence and starting a war with England. Against all odds the colonies won. If we lost all of them and many others would have died via firing squad or something else.

Why were you on Salon.com?

It's pretty much the same thing as the feminists on Tumblr.