(12-19-2014 04:27 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Can you give examples of P5 greed?

Have you heard of conference realignment? Dollar dollar bills y'all.

(12-19-2014 04:49 PM)otown Wrote:  

(12-19-2014 04:27 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Can you give examples of P5 greed?

U.....A.......B

That's not P5 greed. That's U of Alabama greed that shut them down.

(12-19-2014 05:19 PM)bullitt_60 Wrote:  

(12-19-2014 04:27 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Can you give examples of P5 greed?

Have you heard of conference realignment? Dollar dollar bills y'all.

Conference realignment was about likes associating together. Just because a school prefers to mingle with a new set of schools vs the ones they used to, it's not due to greed. That's about trying to better align with peer institutions.

(12-19-2014 09:26 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-19-2014 04:49 PM)otown Wrote:  

(12-19-2014 04:27 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Can you give examples of P5 greed?

U.....A.......B

That's not P5 greed. That's U of Alabama greed that shut them down.

Its University of Alabama - Tuscaloosa greed, and the University of Alabama - Tuscaloosa is a P5 school, so QED.

(12-19-2014 11:06 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-19-2014 09:26 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-19-2014 04:49 PM)otown Wrote:  

(12-19-2014 04:27 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Can you give examples of P5 greed?

U.....A.......B

That's not P5 greed. That's U of Alabama greed that shut them down.

Its University of Alabama - Tuscaloosa greed, and the University of Alabama - Tuscaloosa is a P5 school, so QED.

It's not a collective that killed UAB - it was one school. Schools like Ole Miss, Miss St, Georgia, LSU and other schools not a part of the state of Alabama wouldn't have the juice to kill UAB's FB program. It was one school. The sins of one should not be transferred to all just because they share similar traits. That is a fallacy of composition.

(12-19-2014 11:26 PM)miko33 Wrote:  It's not a collective that killed UAB - it was one school.

You didn't ask about a collective, you asked for examples of P5 greed. There is not a collective "P5", there is a group of schools with five membership associations (plus ND) which we refer to as the P5. Pretending that they are a single collective is a false reification.

The demand for examples of P5 greed will necessarily require somebody pointing to greed by one or more specific P5 schools, so it would be silly to rule out exactly the kind of example that your original demand requires. Inventing a demand to show some kind of free-floating generic P5 greed after somebody showed a perfectly good example of P5 greed is just trying to move the goalposts after the kick has cleared the bar.

I see the douche bag has struck again. You have some serious attention issues.

(12-20-2014 12:08 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-19-2014 11:26 PM)miko33 Wrote:  It's not a collective that killed UAB - it was one school.

You didn't ask about a collective, you asked for examples of P5 greed. There is not a collective "P5", there is a group of schools with five membership associations (plus ND) which we refer to as the P5. Pretending that they are a single collective is a false reification.

The demand for examples of P5 greed will necessarily require somebody pointing to greed by one or more specific P5 schools, so it would be silly to rule out exactly the kind of example that your original demand requires. Inventing a demand to show some kind of free-floating generic P5 greed after somebody showed a perfectly good example of P5 greed is just trying to move the goalposts after the kick has cleared the bar.

All of the conversations on this board are about the P5 and how they are ruining college football. If that is the case, then the P5 is working in concert to ruin it out of greed. Your example is NOT about what the P5 is doing out of greed. Your example is about how a single school is killing off another school (athletically) in order to maximize it's allocation of funding within the state of Alabama. Is it an example of greed? Absolutely! Would it have happened whether the P5 or the BCS ever got off the ground? Absolutely! Does that mean that the conferences that are grouped together as the P5 killed UAB football? No. The existence of a P5 or a lack of existence of a P5 has no bearing on whether Alabama would have neutered UAB football. Alabama is an independent actor. Therefore, conclusion does not follow.

(12-19-2014 09:27 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-19-2014 05:19 PM)bullitt_60 Wrote:  

(12-19-2014 04:27 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Can you give examples of P5 greed?

Have you heard of conference realignment? Dollar dollar bills y'all.

Conference realignment was about likes associating together. Just because a school prefers to mingle with a new set of schools vs the ones they used to, it's not due to greed. That's about trying to better align with peer institutions.

Bless your ignorant heart.

(12-20-2014 08:28 AM)miko33 Wrote:  All of the conversations on this board are about the P5 and how they are ruining college football.

What conversations are about on this board is certainly not proof of anything in particular, and quite often not particularly relevant to anything whatsoever.

Quote: If that is the case, then the P5 is working in concert to ruin it out of greed.

The conclusion does not follow logically from the premise. For instance, it could be that the destruction of football by P5 greed is an uncoordinated and unintended side-effect of actions with other aims entirely.

(12-16-2014 06:10 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:16 PM)Enaiu Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:11 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 04:35 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  Why is BYU not part of the group?

There are conferences and each conference makes its own decisions on who to invite or not. Maybe your real complaint is that conferences themselves (as opposed to individual schools) have too much influence now, compared to the 1970s, which might be true. If that's your complaint, blame the Supreme Court for its Oklahoma v. NCAA decision, or blame ESPN and friends for latching onto conferences as brands just as if they were pro sports leagues.

As for BYU specifically, two things: (1) By all accounts, they could be in the Big 12 today if their leadership (or maybe the LDS church leadership) had not approached the Big 12 as if BYU had as much value and leverage as Texas. (2) If you are concerned about BYU, why aren't you mad that the G5 excluded BYU from eligibility for the Access Bowl spot in the CFP bowls?

Because it's all about G5 greed. Most American and MWC conferences look down their noses at the SunBelt, CUSA and the MAC, yet get bent out of shape if some fans from the P5 do the same. I think it's hypocrisy TBH.

I'll bite.

If the G5 (MWC, AAC) look down towards the MAC, Sunbelt, and the CUSA and that is the reason that the G5 are greedy, then aren't the P5s that look down at the G5s just as greedy and therefore will also 'ruin college football'?

The TV ratings come from the P5 conference teams. That's why they are compensated better than the G5. Plus a lot of P5 schools regularly schedule games against the G5 schools. However, a number of G5 schools try to avoid scheduling games against what they perceive as lower level G5 schools.

Collectively...sure. But we all know that Boise has gotten good ratings for years now. And again, since the exclusion started with the BCS in the 90's...I'll again point to BYU. They get ratings.

And for all that talked about conferences...obviously Notre Dame was an exception. BYU didn't get that same exception. The MWC was formed after the BCS and generally as a result of it.

The point of the BCS was to "exclude" programs (like Tulane in 98). This was pretty much admitted to by the BCS when they at least gave an avenue for programs like Utah, TCU and Boise in '04. Everything that happened since was as a result of the creation of the BCS. UConn, Cincy, and USF as well as other programs like Boise, BYU...are just sitting by watching the P5 commissioners make all the decisions. And somehow, someway, idiots on message boards try to revise history and turn the conversation to the folks fighting for the scraps left over.

Three schools made it in...L-ville, TCU and Utah.

(12-21-2014 02:00 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-20-2014 08:28 AM)miko33 Wrote:  All of the conversations on this board are about the P5 and how they are ruining college football.

What conversations are about on this board is certainly not proof of anything in particular, and quite often not particularly relevant to anything whatsoever.

Quote: If that is the case, then the P5 is working in concert to ruin it out of greed.

The conclusion does not follow logically from the premise. For instance, it could be that the destruction of football by P5 greed is an uncoordinated and unintended side-effect of actions with other aims entirely.

I agree that most of the conversations on this board is a bunch of inane crap and does not indicate evidence of any specific phenomena occurring IRL. I also agree that if the premise is true that the P5 is ruining college football, it is a side effect of pursuing different goals.

And that's the point, isn't it? Trying to assert that the P5 are trying to ruin a sport or to ruin the G5 schools is silly. No doubt Alabama directly destroyed UAB football. But losing one school does not mean that college football is ruined - especially when there have been 3 - 4 schools that have already stepped up to the plate to join Div1. Taking specific individual examples is nothing but anecdotes along the same line of thinking that politicians use to illustrate widespread issues. We know in reality that a sob story about a single family having medical access issues does not mean that a system is broken. Same with Alabama destroying UAB football. They are heinous for doing that, but that doesn't mean that all P5 are seeking to destroy other schools the same way that Alabama did.

(12-19-2014 04:27 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Can you give examples of P5 greed?

Really??? In a word " autonomy." College football had existed for 100+ years until the age of big money TV networks precipitated the "need" for autonomy, or the threat of a Div. 4 breakaway. What about how about the president of Pitt. (And the voice of the Big East in negotiations with Espin)Advocating to reject the approximate $11 million per team in the old Big East all the while working secretively to exit the Big East ie. Looking out for themselves at the expense of their former conference mates without being up front and honest about their intentions. When it's all about you at the expense of decency and honor, and honesty that's what greed is.

I think that the blame rests squarely on the MAC's shoulders.

(12-21-2014 12:42 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  I think that the blame rests squarely on the MAC's shoulders.

(12-21-2014 12:42 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  I think that the blame rests squarely on the MAC's shoulders.

Certainly not, sirrah! Its the Sunbelt! Its them what's done it!

The thing about "its P5 greed spoiling college FB" is that, true or not, there's enough power in the hands of various P5 schools that it is at least plausible.

The tacit premise that the Go5 schools have enough power to "spoil college FB", through greed or however else, is laughable.

Yes we in the MAC have slowly been plotting everybody's eventual demise MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....ahem pretend you did not hear that.