(12-15-2014 03:02 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote: Not sure what the point of this article is to be honest. Cars are expensive today, more expensive even when you factor inflation in than in previous generations. I am employed and paid a good wage for someone my age and I wouldn't dream of buying a new car (especially a new Ford). I got a slightly used Mazda 6 for a very good price last year (at least 7k cheaper than a new one) and plan to have it for at least 8 more years. Unless you are more than gainfully employed, buying a new car just doesn't make sense economically in my opinion.
Inflation is just one factor in price increases. You also have to factor in the stuff in cars today compared to just a generation ago, and not just the optional stuff like navigation systems etc. but the government mandated stuff like air bags, pollution controls, etc. That stuff is a larger factor in the increase in price than anything else, and probably larger than everything else combined.
Or you can just blame the evil automakers for the price increases.
I was curious about this, so I did some research.
A new 1960 Chevy Bel Air had a base price of $2,438.
At 3% inflation, that would translate to a 2015 price of $12,390
A new 2015 Chevy Cruize has a base price of $16,170.
So, for less than $4K, you get improved mileage, air bags, ABS, keyless remote entry, AM/FM/CD/satellite radio, longer warranty, better paint, and I'm sure a host of other safety features that don't readily come to mind.
Due to technology, the cost to produce a 1960 Chevy Bel Air in pretty much every aspect except human wages would have actually gone through deflation. If I could buy a new car for around $5,000 without all the bells and whistles, warranties, gas mileage, etc, I'd prefer that.
Quote: In these new cars, a single wire to a computer goes bad and you are looking at $$$Thousands in diagnoses and repairs that are likely never to find that it is simply a bad wire that would cost $10 and 30 minutes of labor to fix. Sometimes simpler is better.
Yes, I can see where maintenance costs are higher.
I could never convince my wife for me to get a used truck. She always maintained that it's hazardous to inherit someone else's problem. It didn't matter to me if it was used as I would only use it to do errands and an occasional meeting. So we wound up buying a Tundra in 2009 and now it's got 20,200 miles on it. We were looking at the new Colorado because it's smaller and easier to maneuver around town and shopping "lots". The 16 inches of difference in size was not enough to convince me to sell my truck and then have to pay an additional 10-13k more after the sale.
What I really want is a jacked up truck from Mecum Auto Auctions that come out on TV. Some of these trucks are frame up restorations and are really cheap. The think that would bother me is that they are so beautiful that I would hesitate in going fishing or dumping stuff in the bed. I guess I'll just keep my truck and have it for 17 years like my last one. My first truck I kept for 14 years. So I get my moneys worth out of them.
(12-15-2014 08:43 PM)olliebaba Wrote: I could never convince my wife for me to get a used truck. She always maintained that it's hazardous to inherit someone else's problem. It didn't matter to me if it was used as I would only use it to do errands and an occasional meeting. So we wound up buying a Tundra in 2009 and now it's got 20,200 miles on it. We were looking at the new Colorado because it's smaller and easier to maneuver around town and shopping "lots". The 16 inches of difference in size was not enough to convince me to sell my truck and then have to pay an additional 10-13k more after the sale.
What I really want is a jacked up truck from Mecum Auto Auctions that come out on TV. Some of these trucks are frame up restorations and are really cheap. The think that would bother me is that they are so beautiful that I would hesitate in going fishing or dumping stuff in the bed. I guess I'll just keep my truck and have it for 17 years like my last one. My first truck I kept for 14 years. So I get my moneys worth out of them.
I wouldn't be so sure unless they have made some serious changes since the '05 models.
I have an '05 Colorado crew cab 4x4 and it has a horrible turning radius, even worse than my uncle's extended cab fullsize Ford. Every time I get in a packed parking lot I feel like singing this:
- I am cheap, but selectively so.
--- I'm willing to spend coin on reasonably priced performance components for cars. But I'm not willing to spend high dollars for an import with high maintenance costs. I'm not willing to spend high dollars (or really any dollars) for a domestic that underneath the bland body paneling has stone age chassis components like live rear axles and leaf springs. And I'm damn sure not willing to buy a single thing as long as I live from GM thanks to the bailout. But I'll pay a bit of a premium for the right Mazda or Subaru.
--- I'm willing to spend high but not top dollar on computer components. But for me that is as much a tool of the trade as it is an entertainment purchase.
--- I tip very well (up to 35-40%) where I think it is warranted and where I can get a feel for the level of service. Waiters. Bartenders with good pours. But I *HATE* tipping for pointless reasons and fleeting momentary encounters. Taxis unless they committed 3 felonies to get you there impossibly fast (I love you Uber). Bellhop. Valet. Pizza delivery unless it was a mind melting speed.
--- I refuse to spend high coin on older houses. But I WILL spend high coin on new houses where building materials were based upon longevity and low lifetime maintenance. It is one of life's great mysteries to me why an older house can hold value so well. They aren't wired well for modern geek-friendly use: I'd MUCH prefer the whole house get wired for 40-amp for ham radio and server racking purposes, there is no conduit, there is no wired GigE, there is sparse wired coaxial. Furthermore, the R rating on the insulation is usually crap. They usually used fiberglass batting which has compacted to HALF its size over the years further reducing the R value. The windows are single pane single glaze. Everybody puts up vinyl siding which is an invitation for mildew and painting. Very few bother with wood frame masonry which is the way to go. Gutters are almost never clog-free designs. They got that craptastic 70's era tub-shower combo unit with super crappy gerber valves that will crack and leak and need replacement every 15 years. Cheap *** linoleum everywhere instead of at LEAST laminate hardware flooring. Nasty carpets. Carpets: the foot sweater you can never take off or easily wash. Ewwwwwww. It only takes one time seeing what looked like a clean carpet getting professionally steam cleaned to turn you off carpets forever. Just ... everywhere you look a myriad of "that'll do" cheapness. I'll pay for the laminate hardwood. I'll pay for the walk in shower and separate garden jet tub. I'll pay for the full brick exterior. I'll pay for the no clog gutters. I"ll pay for the conduit. I'll pay for the higher gauge wiring with 40-amp breakers. But GOOD LUCK finding that unless you're buying new and specifying it.
And props to All Dukes for also rocking a Mazda6. Hopefully a late Gen1 model. Gen2 doesn't look nearly as good. And Gen3 would have been SO much better if they just made the Takeri Concept they showed off without modification.
(12-16-2014 01:03 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: Random related thoughts from a millenial:
- I am cheap, but selectively so.
--- I'm willing to spend coin on reasonably priced performance components for cars. But I'm not willing to spend high dollars for an import with high maintenance costs. I'm not willing to spend high dollars (or really any dollars) for a domestic that underneath the bland body paneling has stone age chassis components like live rear axles and leaf springs. And I'm damn sure not willing to buy a single thing as long as I live from GM thanks to the bailout. But I'll pay a bit of a premium for the right Mazda or Subaru.
--- I'm willing to spend high but not top dollar on computer components. But for me that is as much a tool of the trade as it is an entertainment purchase.
--- I tip very well (up to 35-40%) where I think it is warranted and where I can get a feel for the level of service. Waiters. Bartenders with good pours. But I *HATE* tipping for pointless reasons and fleeting momentary encounters. Taxis unless they committed 3 felonies to get you there impossibly fast (I love you Uber). Bellhop. Valet. Pizza delivery unless it was a mind melting speed.
--- I refuse to spend high coin on older houses. But I WILL spend high coin on new houses where building materials were based upon longevity and low lifetime maintenance. It is one of life's great mysteries to me why an older house can hold value so well. They aren't wired well for modern geek-friendly use: I'd MUCH prefer the whole house get wired for 40-amp for ham radio and server racking purposes, there is no conduit, there is no wired GigE, there is sparse wired coaxial. Furthermore, the R rating on the insulation is usually crap. They usually used fiberglass batting which has compacted to HALF its size over the years further reducing the R value. The windows are single pane single glaze. Everybody puts up vinyl siding which is an invitation for mildew and painting. Very few bother with wood frame masonry which is the way to go. Gutters are almost never clog-free designs. They got that craptastic 70's era tub-shower combo unit with super crappy gerber valves that will crack and leak and need replacement every 15 years. Cheap *** linoleum everywhere instead of at LEAST laminate hardware flooring. Nasty carpets. Carpets: the foot sweater you can never take off or easily wash. Ewwwwwww. It only takes one time seeing what looked like a clean carpet getting professionally steam cleaned to turn you off carpets forever. Just ... everywhere you look a myriad of "that'll do" cheapness. I'll pay for the laminate hardwood. I'll pay for the walk in shower and separate garden jet tub. I'll pay for the full brick exterior. I'll pay for the no clog gutters. I"ll pay for the conduit. I'll pay for the higher gauge wiring with 40-amp breakers. But GOOD LUCK finding that unless you're buying new and specifying it.
And props to All Dukes for also rocking a Mazda6. Hopefully a late Gen1 model. Gen2 doesn't look nearly as good. And Gen3 would have been SO much better if they just made the Takeri Concept they showed off without modification.
Older houses hold their value because they are usually in more desirable locations. That is why I bought mine. I could have gotten more house and newer construction for the same price, but with my 5 minute commute, traditional style neighborhood, and having almost everything I want within a mile of where I live including 2 parks, it wasn't worth the sacrifice to me. I also live on my jogging/biking route where I can cover a 30 mile loop without having to go on anything but park property and residential streets. If I went the newer route, I would have been 20 minutes away and probably had a view of the interstate and never be able to leave the neighborhood without getting in a car. Ideally, I'd like a new house on my current lot, but I gotta win the lottery first.
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2014 01:17 PM by EverRespect.)
I question the idea that new construction is "built to last"
Newer homes are built with as few structural components as they can get away with to save money during construction. They are far more susceptible to complete loss from fire, water damage, etc. While the subfloor and roof decking in my 30 year old home is 3/4" plywood in never homes it is generally OSB, and sometimes as small as 1/2" in size.
I drive a 2002 Ford Focus. It's been great (relatively speaking), but is beginning to show signs of breaking down. I've looked into a new car, but can't seem to pull the trigger. At this point in time, I've actually began to entertain the option of a (dual sport) motorcycle. Something like a KLR 650, V-Strom, etc. Not only for the great gas mileage, and relative ease of maintenance, but I also like the idea of getting into adventure touring. I am fortunate enough to work a job that pays me even if I were to take off a month at a time, so this is something I'm becoming more and more interested in doing. Taking off, and exploring the Rockies, the Pacific Northwest, even Alaska.
I don't necessarily think I'm a cheap skate, I'd just prefer to spend $5k-$6k on a motorcycle than $25k-$30k on a depreciating liability like a new car, and save/invest the difference over time.
I'm not simply going to buy a $30k car and a $250k house, just because it's the "thing to do". I already fell for that racket when I went to college.
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2014 11:59 PM by Kronke.)
(12-15-2014 03:02 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote: Not sure what the point of this article is to be honest. Cars are expensive today, more expensive even when you factor inflation in than in previous generations. I am employed and paid a good wage for someone my age and I wouldn't dream of buying a new car (especially a new Ford). I got a slightly used Mazda 6 for a very good price last year (at least 7k cheaper than a new one) and plan to have it for at least 8 more years. Unless you are more than gainfully employed, buying a new car just doesn't make sense economically in my opinion.
Inflation is just one factor in price increases. You also have to factor in the stuff in cars today compared to just a generation ago, and not just the optional stuff like navigation systems etc. but the government mandated stuff like air bags, pollution controls, etc. That stuff is a larger factor in the increase in price than anything else, and probably larger than everything else combined.
Or you can just blame the evil automakers for the price increases.
I was curious about this, so I did some research.
A new 1960 Chevy Bel Air had a base price of $2,438.
At 3% inflation, that would translate to a 2015 price of $12,390
A new 2015 Chevy Cruize has a base price of $16,170.
So, for less than $4K, you get improved mileage, air bags, ABS, keyless remote entry, AM/FM/CD/satellite radio, longer warranty, better paint, and I'm sure a host of other safety features that don't readily come to mind.
I drove a rental...it is a horrible vehicle. Maybe OK for a first time driver.
(12-16-2014 01:27 PM)Kaplony Wrote: I question the idea that new construction is "built to last"
Newer homes are built with as few structural components as they can get away with to save money during construction. They are far more susceptible to complete loss from fire, water damage, etc. While the subfloor and roof decking in my 30 year old home is 3/4" plywood in never homes it is generally OSB, and sometimes as small as 1/2" in size.
Agreed. My parent's have a house that was built in 2009. Two story-craftsman style in Cobb County. It's now been painted 3 times because the siding is cheap. They've had tons of problems with the windows and pipes, etc.
The house they built back home in 1986 is still better quality and over time will have been much cheaper because the repairs have been few and far between there.
(12-16-2014 01:03 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: Random related thoughts from a millenial:
- I am cheap, but selectively so.
--- I'm willing to spend coin on reasonably priced performance components for cars. But I'm not willing to spend high dollars for an import with high maintenance costs. I'm not willing to spend high dollars (or really any dollars) for a domestic that underneath the bland body paneling has stone age chassis components like live rear axles and leaf springs. And I'm damn sure not willing to buy a single thing as long as I live from GM thanks to the bailout. But I'll pay a bit of a premium for the right Mazda or Subaru.
--- I'm willing to spend high but not top dollar on computer components. But for me that is as much a tool of the trade as it is an entertainment purchase.
--- I tip very well (up to 35-40%) where I think it is warranted and where I can get a feel for the level of service. Waiters. Bartenders with good pours. But I *HATE* tipping for pointless reasons and fleeting momentary encounters. Taxis unless they committed 3 felonies to get you there impossibly fast (I love you Uber). Bellhop. Valet. Pizza delivery unless it was a mind melting speed.
--- I refuse to spend high coin on older houses. But I WILL spend high coin on new houses where building materials were based upon longevity and low lifetime maintenance. It is one of life's great mysteries to me why an older house can hold value so well. They aren't wired well for modern geek-friendly use: I'd MUCH prefer the whole house get wired for 40-amp for ham radio and server racking purposes, there is no conduit, there is no wired GigE, there is sparse wired coaxial. Furthermore, the R rating on the insulation is usually crap. They usually used fiberglass batting which has compacted to HALF its size over the years further reducing the R value. The windows are single pane single glaze. Everybody puts up vinyl siding which is an invitation for mildew and painting. Very few bother with wood frame masonry which is the way to go. Gutters are almost never clog-free designs. They got that craptastic 70's era tub-shower combo unit with super crappy gerber valves that will crack and leak and need replacement every 15 years. Cheap *** linoleum everywhere instead of at LEAST laminate hardware flooring. Nasty carpets. Carpets: the foot sweater you can never take off or easily wash. Ewwwwwww. It only takes one time seeing what looked like a clean carpet getting professionally steam cleaned to turn you off carpets forever. Just ... everywhere you look a myriad of "that'll do" cheapness. I'll pay for the laminate hardwood. I'll pay for the walk in shower and separate garden jet tub. I'll pay for the full brick exterior. I'll pay for the no clog gutters. I"ll pay for the conduit. I'll pay for the higher gauge wiring with 40-amp breakers. But GOOD LUCK finding that unless you're buying new and specifying it.
And props to All Dukes for also rocking a Mazda6. Hopefully a late Gen1 model. Gen2 doesn't look nearly as good. And Gen3 would have been SO much better if they just made the Takeri Concept they showed off without modification.
Gen3. I almost got a Mazda 3 but then I realized at the dealership that the trunk is tiny and I would almost certainly die if I was rear ended.
/
Millennials as cheapskates
