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Jake29 Offline
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Post: #401
RE: Nebraska game
Did anyone notice the trap press that we ran almost the entire game against Nebraska? I think Mick sees that we are struggling to knock down shots and wants to get easy buckets by extending the court. The difference between this year and years past that I see is that we are not shooting as many desperation shots at the end of the shot clock and consistently getting better looks. We're just struggling to put them through the basket. IMO that isn't entirely Micks fault if his players cant execute. Yeah yeah yeah, he recruited them. Whatever, half of our team has never played a true road game in a hostile environment before. I'll give them a pass until they get some more experience. As long as I continue to see adjustments from Mick, I'll be fine. I'm sure he knows what he's working with.
 
12-17-2014 11:14 AM
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Overrated Offline
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Post: #402
RE: Nebraska game
(12-17-2014 10:38 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  My only real gripe is this is year #9 and this staff is solely responsible for compiling the roster. Nobody stood up for Mick for the first 5 years more than me and I was proven right . The crazies all went on the backs of milk cartons. But I think it is fair to even-handedly criticise if we are in the midst of a rebuild year at this stage of the game. We are not young or inexperienced due to injury, entering drafts early, or guys being kicked off the team due to grades or behavior. Our staff set this team up this way.

This is fair. We just had a terrible (and huge) recruiting class in 2011 and then didn't bring in a single freshman in 2012. So we have no talented experience right now. It held us back a little last year (although I think people overstate the Harvard loss, who ranked 32 in KenPom). This year it is killing us. We are always going to rely on upper clasmen under Mick and we don't have them right now.
 
12-17-2014 01:42 PM
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Post: #403
RE: Nebraska game
(12-17-2014 01:42 PM)Overrated Wrote:  
(12-17-2014 10:38 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  My only real gripe is this is year #9 and this staff is solely responsible for compiling the roster. Nobody stood up for Mick for the first 5 years more than me and I was proven right . The crazies all went on the backs of milk cartons. But I think it is fair to even-handedly criticise if we are in the midst of a rebuild year at this stage of the game. We are not young or inexperienced due to injury, entering drafts early, or guys being kicked off the team due to grades or behavior. Our staff set this team up this way.

This is fair. We just had a terrible (and huge) recruiting class in 2011 and then didn't bring in a single freshman in 2012. So we have no talented experience right now. It held us back a little last year (although I think people overstate the Harvard loss, who ranked 32 in KenPom). This year it is killing us. We are always going to rely on upper clasmen under Mick and we don't have them right now.

I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but are upperclassmen, or the lack thereof, really the reason for the offensive woes this season? We had senior leaders last year and the offense was still miserable most of the time.

Mick openly states that he doesn't care about offense. I feel like I'm listening to a 7th grade coach who keeps telling kids that "Defense wins championships." These aren't kids, they better understand that defense and rebounding are absolutely necessary. But the coaches damn well better know that offense is absolutely necessary to be able to win championships, even Mick does not realize that by now he's clueless.
 
12-17-2014 02:39 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #404
RE: Nebraska game
(12-17-2014 02:39 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  
(12-17-2014 01:42 PM)Overrated Wrote:  
(12-17-2014 10:38 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  My only real gripe is this is year #9 and this staff is solely responsible for compiling the roster. Nobody stood up for Mick for the first 5 years more than me and I was proven right . The crazies all went on the backs of milk cartons. But I think it is fair to even-handedly criticise if we are in the midst of a rebuild year at this stage of the game. We are not young or inexperienced due to injury, entering drafts early, or guys being kicked off the team due to grades or behavior. Our staff set this team up this way.

This is fair. We just had a terrible (and huge) recruiting class in 2011 and then didn't bring in a single freshman in 2012. So we have no talented experience right now. It held us back a little last year (although I think people overstate the Harvard loss, who ranked 32 in KenPom). This year it is killing us. We are always going to rely on upper clasmen under Mick and we don't have them right now.

I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but are upperclassmen, or the lack thereof, really the reason for the offensive woes this season? We had senior leaders last year and the offense was still miserable most of the time.

Mick openly states that he doesn't care about offense. I feel like I'm listening to a 7th grade coach who keeps telling kids that "Defense wins championships." These aren't kids, they better understand that defense and rebounding are absolutely necessary. But the coaches damn well better know that offense is absolutely necessary to be able to win championships, even Mick does not realize that by now he's clueless.

I'm 100% with you there. If he doesn't care about offense, and we have 8 years of evidence to that fact, we need someone on the staff that does. It's excruciating to watch his offensive "plays" from a coaching perspective, there is no misdirection, effective off ball action, or defensive manipulation. It is all "Pass around and hope someone gets open" at this point.
 
12-17-2014 02:42 PM
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Demoengr Offline
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Post: #405
RE: Nebraska game
I cannot understand how after a week of no games that Div 1 players can't make more than one out of two foul shots. Some kids on my 8 year old team can make that many. 03-hissyfit
 
12-17-2014 02:46 PM
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BeerCat Offline
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Post: #406
RE: Nebraska game
(12-17-2014 02:42 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(12-17-2014 02:39 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  
(12-17-2014 01:42 PM)Overrated Wrote:  
(12-17-2014 10:38 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  My only real gripe is this is year #9 and this staff is solely responsible for compiling the roster. Nobody stood up for Mick for the first 5 years more than me and I was proven right . The crazies all went on the backs of milk cartons. But I think it is fair to even-handedly criticise if we are in the midst of a rebuild year at this stage of the game. We are not young or inexperienced due to injury, entering drafts early, or guys being kicked off the team due to grades or behavior. Our staff set this team up this way.

This is fair. We just had a terrible (and huge) recruiting class in 2011 and then didn't bring in a single freshman in 2012. So we have no talented experience right now. It held us back a little last year (although I think people overstate the Harvard loss, who ranked 32 in KenPom). This year it is killing us. We are always going to rely on upper clasmen under Mick and we don't have them right now.

I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but are upperclassmen, or the lack thereof, really the reason for the offensive woes this season? We had senior leaders last year and the offense was still miserable most of the time.

Mick openly states that he doesn't care about offense. I feel like I'm listening to a 7th grade coach who keeps telling kids that "Defense wins championships." These aren't kids, they better understand that defense and rebounding are absolutely necessary. But the coaches damn well better know that offense is absolutely necessary to be able to win championships, even Mick does not realize that by now he's clueless.

I'm 100% with you there. If he doesn't care about offense, and we have 8 years of evidence to that fact, we need someone on the staff that does. It's excruciating to watch his offensive "plays" from a coaching perspective, there is no misdirection, effective off ball action, or defensive manipulation. It is all "Pass around and hope someone gets open" at this point.

Finding the exact cause of the woes is difficult at this point because they seem so vast, but IMO it is not necessarily the X's and O's as much as it is the execution. As an exercise in futility tonight watch Kevin Johnson "use" screens on the perimeter tonight. If he sticks to form he won't get anywhere near close enough to the screener and he will dribble away from the basket instead of towards it. The screener cannot and should not do much while setting a screen other than stay set, but what a lot of the UC big men do is slip every screen. Slipping screens works great, but only after you have set a few good screens. It's like the play action pass, it only works if you've had a successful running game established.

It just annoys me because Mick's teams exhibit such discipline on the defensive end but then turn into such a careless, sloppy team on the offensive end. I just don't understand why the discipline does not filter into both ends.
 
12-17-2014 02:50 PM
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rath v2.0 Online
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Post: #407
RE: Nebraska game
Watch Ellis and Clark set screens....They could almost call a foul every time.
 
12-17-2014 03:09 PM
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uccheese Offline
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Post: #408
RE: Nebraska game
Man... you guys are going to hate tonight's game lol
 
12-17-2014 03:18 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #409
RE: Nebraska game
(12-17-2014 03:18 PM)uccheese Wrote:  Man... you guys are going to hate tonight's game lol

Oh yeah...37-33 rock fight special tonight!
 
12-17-2014 03:23 PM
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HoopsJunky Offline
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Post: #410
RE: Nebraska game
If UC is going to continue to struggle score in half court
I wish they would try to push the ball more and score in transition
 
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2014 03:28 PM by HoopsJunky.)
12-17-2014 03:24 PM
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mikecat Offline
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RE: Nebraska game
Vegas over/under 108 that is almost unheard of,the next lowest i saw was 122
 
12-17-2014 03:26 PM
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Overrated Offline
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Post: #412
RE: Nebraska game
(12-17-2014 02:39 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  
(12-17-2014 01:42 PM)Overrated Wrote:  
(12-17-2014 10:38 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  My only real gripe is this is year #9 and this staff is solely responsible for compiling the roster. Nobody stood up for Mick for the first 5 years more than me and I was proven right . The crazies all went on the backs of milk cartons. But I think it is fair to even-handedly criticise if we are in the midst of a rebuild year at this stage of the game. We are not young or inexperienced due to injury, entering drafts early, or guys being kicked off the team due to grades or behavior. Our staff set this team up this way.

This is fair. We just had a terrible (and huge) recruiting class in 2011 and then didn't bring in a single freshman in 2012. So we have no talented experience right now. It held us back a little last year (although I think people overstate the Harvard loss, who ranked 32 in KenPom). This year it is killing us. We are always going to rely on upper clasmen under Mick and we don't have them right now.

I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but are upperclassmen, or the lack thereof, really the reason for the offensive woes this season? We had senior leaders last year and the offense was still miserable most of the time.

Mick openly states that he doesn't care about offense. I feel like I'm listening to a 7th grade coach who keeps telling kids that "Defense wins championships." These aren't kids, they better understand that defense and rebounding are absolutely necessary. But the coaches damn well better know that offense is absolutely necessary to be able to win championships, even Mick does not realize that by now he's clueless.

So my original point was more about overall team quality. 3 of the last 4 years we have had a top 25 team and the other year was ranked 16th in the country in KenPom when Cash got hurt (there were other factors that hurt that team: poor use of Justin and slowing things down to a glacial pace once there was a touch of adversity after starting the year playing extremely fast). But point being is there has been a very solid standard set here. Fans can want more, that is totally reasonable. But a strong program has been built. My comment about the lack of upperclassmen was about how this years team is clearly behind the last 4.

Also one other note before I address the offense: there is a myth that one side of the ball is more important than the other. A lot of fans like the mantra "offense wins games, defense wins championships," but with UC basketball fans it seems like the opposite is true. It seems like the common saying is defense only gets you so far, you need a strong offense to win in March, or some variant. Both perspectives miss the point. The best teams have the best combination of offense and defense. The better one side is, the more margin for error you have on the other. A couple of years ago Louisville made the final 4 with an offense that ranked in the 100's in adjusted efficiency because their defense was so spectacular. There are surely examples of teams with the exact opposite of circumstances. Generally speaking, your best bet is to be good at both. But it doesn't have to be that way.

It can't be argued that offense is the weak link of this program though. At it's best we have ranked in the 50's or 60's in adjusted efficiency. This is the third straight year it is in the 100's right now, although it's too early to say it will stay there. There are a lot of reasons for that: recruiting limitations, eying guys that can play defense, a poor system that goes extremely slow, doesn't move the ball quickly and most importantly doesn't have enough players that can break a defense down and be a threat.

We consistently play with quite a few guys that are at best offensively challenged, if not total liabilities. I feel like we have been addressing that with how we have recruited the last 3 classes as well as with next years class. But after the classes of Yancy, Cash and Dixon and then Parker, SK and Lance, we brought in 2 classes in a row that really lacked offensive talent (to be fair, the 2011 class was supposed to be good with offensive talent, it was just a total bust). We are paying for that right now.

I'm pretty sure things will get a decent amount better this year, and next year could possibly be Mick's best team. In our two losses, we have had absurdly bad shooting nights that I think are making people think things are worse than they really are. I understand poor shooting can be a symptom of bad offense, but what I have seen has seemed extreme.

Here are the 3 years of recruiting that set us back (add what I'm missing)

2010:
Justin Jackson
Kelvin Gaines

2011:
Jermaine Sanders
Shaq Thomas
Gelawn Guyn
Jeremiah Sanders
Cheikh Mbodj

2013
Titus Rubles
David Nyarsuk

That just isn't going to get it done. The good news is that I think we have come out of that pretty strongly.
 
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2014 03:59 PM by Overrated.)
12-17-2014 03:48 PM
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BearcatBeta Offline
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Post: #413
RE: Nebraska game
Much like he does on defense with deflections, I'd like to hear MC was counting screens set, ball reversals etc on offense
 
12-17-2014 03:51 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #414
RE: Nebraska game
(12-17-2014 03:51 PM)BearcatBeta Wrote:  Much like he does on defense with deflections, I'd like to hear MC was counting screens set, ball reversals etc on offense

I'm pretty sure it would take the Titan Supercomputer to count that high.
 
12-17-2014 04:06 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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RE: Nebraska game
(12-17-2014 03:26 PM)mikecat Wrote:  Vegas over/under 108 that is almost unheard of,the next lowest i saw was 122

The under is still an incredibly lucrative play. We might not his a combined 90.
 
12-17-2014 04:08 PM
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mikecat Offline
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RE: Nebraska game
(12-17-2014 04:08 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(12-17-2014 03:26 PM)mikecat Wrote:  Vegas over/under 108 that is almost unheard of,the next lowest i saw was 122

The under is still an incredibly lucrative play. We might not his a combined 90.

thinking the same!!
 
12-17-2014 04:18 PM
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bearcat54 Offline
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Post: #417
RE: Nebraska game
(12-17-2014 03:51 PM)BearcatBeta Wrote:  Much like he does on defense with deflections, I'd like to hear MC was counting screens set, ball reversals etc on offense
it doesn't appear that mick or his coaches know how to coach SCREENS and BALL REVERSALS. That really hurts his teams at the end.
 
12-17-2014 06:09 PM
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BcatMatt13 Offline
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Post: #418
RE: Nebraska game
(12-17-2014 04:08 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(12-17-2014 03:26 PM)mikecat Wrote:  Vegas over/under 108 that is almost unheard of,the next lowest i saw was 122

The under is still an incredibly lucrative play. We might not his a combined 90.

That is what they want you to think. You know everyone will bet the under and then both teams will come out on fire.
 
12-17-2014 06:27 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #419
RE: Nebraska game
(12-17-2014 06:27 PM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  
(12-17-2014 04:08 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(12-17-2014 03:26 PM)mikecat Wrote:  Vegas over/under 108 that is almost unheard of,the next lowest i saw was 122

The under is still an incredibly lucrative play. We might not his a combined 90.

That is what they want you to think. You know everyone will bet the under and then both teams will come out on fire.

Um...literally NOTHING about this year makes that seem like it'll happen. They want goats to bet the over because that is a historically low O/U with two teams that aren't necessarily ones bettors would know substantial information about.

Outside of a double OT game against a team that hasn't care at all about playing defense in the past decade (BYU), they have only scored over 61 points twice, against Cal-State Northridge (79) and Pitt (74) and average score of a 62-55. We have averaged 59-51 against a schedule riddled with hot garbage. I really don't see how this isn't a game in the 40's or low 50's.
 
12-17-2014 06:48 PM
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Overrated Offline
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Post: #420
RE: Nebraska game
(12-17-2014 06:48 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Um...literally NOTHING about this year makes that seem like it'll happen. They want goats to bet the over because that is a historically low O/U with two teams that aren't necessarily ones bettors would know substantial information about.

Outside of a double OT game against a team that hasn't care at all about playing defense in the past decade (BYU), they have only scored over 61 points twice, against Cal-State Northridge (79) and Pitt (74) and average score of a 62-55. We have averaged 59-51 against a schedule riddled with hot garbage. I really don't see how this isn't a game in the 40's or low 50's.

Uh no. Books aren't worried about random $50 or $100 bets from Joe Shmoe. They are worried about setting a bad line and having it pounded by bettors with hundreds of thousands of dollars or more of a bankroll.
 
12-17-2014 07:22 PM
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