Im really starting to buy into this "package" where they go together. Instant "quality' rivalry where both teams play big games against each other taken to another league.

Where as bringing two teams with no connection will take a while to create.

(12-12-2014 12:37 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  An NIU and Toledo package would probably be the best option if the AAC lost Cinci and one other. I don't mind the MAC but personally think the AAC is a better league and would have no issues with NIU moving there. Toledo could then officially become a rival as previously mentioned.

(12-12-2014 02:53 PM)rocketinchitown Wrote:  Im really starting to buy into this "package" where they go together. Instant "quality' rivalry where both teams play big games against each other taken to another league.

Where as bringing two teams with no connection will take a while to create.

(12-12-2014 12:37 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  An NIU and Toledo package would probably be the best option if the AAC lost Cinci and one other. I don't mind the MAC but personally think the AAC is a better league and would have no issues with NIU moving there. Toledo could then officially become a rival as previously mentioned.

Toledo could still play BGSU every year in OOC as well if they desired.

Though I get the feeling the B12 is not going to expand anytime soon, so the whole domino conversation is a moot point but still fun to talk about ^^.

Cincy papers reported that UC had meetings this week with the Big XII.

(12-12-2014 03:03 PM)axeme Wrote:  Cincy papers reported that UC had meetings this week with the Big XII.

Many horn acquaintances here in Houston believe the B12 will expand and most of them favor Cincinnati, UCF, USF, and BYU.

(12-12-2014 02:58 PM)NIUSox10 Wrote:  

(12-12-2014 02:53 PM)rocketinchitown Wrote:  Im really starting to buy into this "package" where they go together. Instant "quality' rivalry where both teams play big games against each other taken to another league.

Where as bringing two teams with no connection will take a while to create.

(12-12-2014 12:37 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  An NIU and Toledo package would probably be the best option if the AAC lost Cinci and one other. I don't mind the MAC but personally think the AAC is a better league and would have no issues with NIU moving there. Toledo could then officially become a rival as previously mentioned.

Toledo could still play BGSU every year in OOC as well if they desired.

I doubt it, BG would quit on Toledo like they have in the past.

Big Houston,

Here's one MAC fan's opinions of some of the strengths and weaknesses of our member schools based on the criteria you listed. (In a few cases, I included basketball points with your criteria.)

Fellow MAC fans: I'm not trying to slam your school. Just one person's opinion. Feel free to present counterarguments.

First, though, a couple of general truths regarding MAC members:
- Almost all MAC schools have stadiums that seat 30K or close to it.
- Some MAC schools draw better than others in football, but no MAC school is coming anywhere close to selling out their stadium on a regular basis.
- Outside of fairly short and reasonable distances, no MAC school travels particularly well. (You wouldn't see any MAC school bringing 5K fans to, say, USF or Tulsa.)

Eastern Michigan
Pros: access to the Detroit market (in theory); excellent basketball arena
Cons: borderline nonexistent fan base; downtrodden football history
Other: No real MAC rival; located in the heart of MAC country

Ball State
Pros: Access to Indianapolis market (kind of, in theory); football stadium recently renovated; history of basketball success; good basketball arena
Cons: Somewhat remote location; haven't drawn particularly well; mediocre football history
Other: No real MAC rival; located in the heart of MAC country

Kent State
Pros: access to the Cleveland market (in theory); history of sporadic big successes in other sports (Great 8 in basketball; College World Series)
Cons: doesn't draw particularly well in football; fairly downtrodden football history
Other: Rivalry with Akron; located in the heart of MAC country

Bowling Green
Pros: fairly successful football history; brand new basketball arena
Cons: has not drawn well despite recent football success; questionable market location
Other: Rivalry with Toledo; located in the heart of MAC country

Central Michigan
Pros: generally draws fairly well when the team does well; numerous MAC football championships
Cons: northernmost location in MAC/not near any major markets; fairly downtrodden basketball history
Other: Rivalry with WMU; located in the heart of MAC country

Miami
Pros: Fairly new football stadium; long history of football and basketball success; access to Cincinnati market (in theory)
Cons: Have not been successful recently in either sport; Have drawn poorly recently in both sports
Other: Rivalry with Ohio; located on the outskirts of MAC country

Western Michigan
Pros: location between Chicago and Detroit; draws fairly well when the team does well
Cons: mediocre football history; not as close to a major market as other MAC schools
Other: Rivalry with CMU; located in the heart of MAC country

Buffalo:
Pros: access to Buffalo market; have shown improvement in football and basketball over the past decade
Cons: Fairly new to D-I athletics; facilities not as good as some other MAC members
Other: Probably more willing than other MAC members to jump ship if others come calling; no MAC rival; located on the outskirts of MAC country

Akron
Pros: access to Cleveland market (in theory); brand new football stadium; recent history of basketball success
Cons: have not drawn well despite new football stadium; fairly downtrodden football history
Other: Probably more willing than other MAC members to jump ship if others come calling, despite rivalry with Kent State; located in the heart of MAC country

Toledo
Pros: successful football history; recently renovated basketball arena; located in a somewhat sizable market
Cons: market not as large as others that could be considered
Other: Rivalry with BG; located in the heart of MAC country

Ohio
Pros: probably the most consistent fan base in the MAC; history of basketball success (Sweet 16); terrific basketball arena
Cons: somewhat remote location; poor football history until the past decade
Other: Rivalry with Miami; located on the outskirts of MAC country

Northern Illinois
Pros: very successful recent football history; brand new basketball arena; football stadium expansion plans in works; access to Chicago market (in theory)
Cons: have drawn so-so considering football success and have drawn poorly in basketball; somewhat remote location
Other: Extremely likely to jump ship if others come calling; no MAC rival; location on the outskirts of MAC country

My opinions on the current landscape:
- NIU is the most likely candidate to bolt and likely would, if asked.
- Ohio would be a good candidate based on fan support alone. I don't know if they would bolt or not. I hope they wouldn't.
- I'm not as convinced as some that Toledo would bolt. They're a good candidate and I could see them moving in conjunction with NIU, but I think it would be a tough call for them. It may cost them their rivalry with BG, which matters far more to them than outsiders may think.
- Akron and Buffalo would likely move if they could, but I don't see their appeal at this point.
- I don't think WMU is looking to move (and like Toledo, I don't know if they'd want to risk their rivalry with CMU), but if the landscape began to shift swiftly and dramatically, I do think WMU would do everything in its power to protect its interests and, under those circumstances, would be a decent candidate.
- Miami and BG have fantastic histories, but I have serious concerns about their current levels of fan support in both football and basketball.
- CMU has solid fan support, but its location hurts it in terms of consideration.
- I don't see Ball State, EMU, or Kent State as viable candidates for consideration at this point.

(12-12-2014 05:08 PM)The Colonel Wrote:  Here's one MAC fan's opinions of some of the strengths and weaknesses of our member schools based on the criteria you listed. (In a few cases, I included basketball points with your criteria.)

This is a pretty good assessment...

(12-12-2014 05:08 PM)The Colonel Wrote:  Big Houston,

Here's one MAC fan's opinions of some of the strengths and weaknesses of our member schools based on the criteria you listed. (In a few cases, I included basketball points with your criteria.)

Fellow MAC fans: I'm not trying to slam your school. Just one person's opinion. Feel free to present counterarguments.

First, though, a couple of general truths regarding MAC members:
- Almost all MAC schools have stadiums that seat 30K or close to it.
- Some MAC schools draw better than others in football, but no MAC school is coming anywhere close to selling out their stadium on a regular basis.
- Outside of fairly short and reasonable distances, no MAC school travels particularly well. (You wouldn't see any MAC school bringing 5K fans to, say, USF or Tulsa.)

Eastern Michigan
Pros: access to the Detroit market (in theory); excellent basketball arena
Cons: borderline nonexistent fan base; downtrodden football history
Other: No real MAC rival; located in the heart of MAC country

Ball State
Pros: Access to Indianapolis market (kind of, in theory); football stadium recently renovated; history of basketball success; good basketball arena
Cons: Somewhat remote location; haven't drawn particularly well; mediocre football history
Other: No real MAC rival; located in the heart of MAC country

Kent State
Pros: access to the Cleveland market (in theory); history of sporadic big successes in other sports (Great 8 in basketball; College World Series)
Cons: doesn't draw particularly well in football; fairly downtrodden football history
Other: Rivalry with Akron; located in the heart of MAC country

Bowling Green
Pros: fairly successful football history; brand new basketball arena
Cons: has not drawn well despite recent football success; questionable market location
Other: Rivalry with Toledo; located in the heart of MAC country

Central Michigan
Pros: generally draws fairly well when the team does well; numerous MAC football championships
Cons: northernmost location in MAC/not near any major markets; fairly downtrodden basketball history
Other: Rivalry with WMU; located in the heart of MAC country

Miami
Pros: Fairly new football stadium; long history of football and basketball success; access to Cincinnati market (in theory)
Cons: Have not been successful recently in either sport; Have drawn poorly recently in both sports
Other: Rivalry with Ohio; located on the outskirts of MAC country

Western Michigan
Pros: location between Chicago and Detroit; draws fairly well when the team does well
Cons: mediocre football history; not as close to a major market as other MAC schools
Other: Rivalry with CMU; located in the heart of MAC country

Buffalo:
Pros: access to Buffalo market; have shown improvement in football and basketball over the past decade
Cons: Fairly new to D-I athletics; facilities not as good as some other MAC members
Other: Probably more willing than other MAC members to jump ship if others come calling; no MAC rival; located on the outskirts of MAC country

Akron
Pros: access to Cleveland market (in theory); brand new football stadium; recent history of basketball success
Cons: have not drawn well despite new football stadium; fairly downtrodden football history
Other: Probably more willing than other MAC members to jump ship if others come calling, despite rivalry with Kent State; located in the heart of MAC country

Toledo
Pros: successful football history; recently renovated basketball arena; located in a somewhat sizable market
Cons: market not as large as others that could be considered
Other: Rivalry with BG; located in the heart of MAC country

Ohio
Pros: probably the most consistent fan base in the MAC; history of basketball success (Sweet 16); terrific basketball arena
Cons: somewhat remote location; poor football history until the past decade
Other: Rivalry with Miami; located on the outskirts of MAC country

Northern Illinois
Pros: very successful recent football history; brand new basketball arena; football stadium expansion plans in works; access to Chicago market (in theory)
Cons: have drawn so-so considering football success and have drawn poorly in basketball; somewhat remote location
Other: Extremely likely to jump ship if others come calling; no MAC rival; location on the outskirts of MAC country

My opinions on the current landscape:
- NIU is the most likely candidate to bolt and likely would, if asked.
- Ohio would be a good candidate based on fan support alone. I don't know if they would bolt or not. I hope they wouldn't.
- I'm not as convinced as some that Toledo would bolt. They're a good candidate and I could see them moving in conjunction with NIU, but I think it would be a tough call for them. It may cost them their rivalry with BG, which matters far more to them than outsiders may think.
- Akron and Buffalo would likely move if they could, but I don't see their appeal at this point.
- I don't think WMU is looking to move (and like Toledo, I don't know if they'd want to risk their rivalry with CMU), but if the landscape began to shift swiftly and dramatically, I do think WMU would do everything in its power to protect its interests and, under those circumstances, would be a decent candidate.
- Miami and BG have fantastic histories, but I have serious concerns about their current levels of fan support in both football and basketball.
- CMU has solid fan support, but its location hurts it in terms of consideration.
- I don't see Ball State, EMU, or Kent State as viable candidates for consideration at this point.

Impressive info... Thanks The Colonel

You know, no one really knows who goes where and when anymore... As a Houston fan, here hope everything remains as is b/c movements such as the one we're about to witness again (hope not) only worsens establish conferences when losing it's top best member/s and it's long term rivalries.


IMO, if the AAC loses a member or two I doubt (sorry) cusa is where the AAC will look for for its replacement/s... I think for those of us that follow college football/basketball know if Cincinnati is offered by the B12, they're gone.

I guess we'll know soon if the B12 decides expansion is good for them.

(12-12-2014 05:08 PM)The Colonel Wrote:  - Some MAC schools draw better than others in football, but no MAC school is coming anywhere close to selling out their stadium on a regular basis.

I'll quibble with this point. In the last 3 seasons 9 of Ohio's home games have been sellouts or within 1K of selling out. I would say 50% is close to being considered a regular basis. And up until this year I think NIU was on a similar trend.

(12-12-2014 08:13 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(12-12-2014 05:08 PM)The Colonel Wrote:  - Some MAC schools draw better than others in football, but no MAC school is coming anywhere close to selling out their stadium on a regular basis.

I'll quibble with this point. In the last 3 seasons 9 of Ohio's home games have been sellouts or within 1K of selling out. I would say 50% is close to being considered a regular basis. And up until this year I think NIU was on a similar trend.

Fair enough, although Peden (and Huskie Stadium in its current form) are both near the bottom of the conference in seating capacity at around 24K.

Not trying to knock Ohio (or NIU, for that matter). Both teams draw well by MAC standards - Ohio in particular, considering how well the Bobcats draw in basketball.

(12-12-2014 07:55 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  You know, no one really knows who goes where and when anymore... As a Houston fan, here hope everything remains as is b/c movements such as the one we're about to witness again (hope not) only worsens establish conferences when losing it's top best member/s and it's long term rivalries.

I agree, BigHouston. Each of our member schools has its positives and drawbacks, but it would definitely be my preference to see the MAC stay intact well into the future.

IMO one reason NIU would be more likely to leave is because they've left the MAC once before. Ohio and Toledo have been MAC members over a much longer period, which is the major reason I think they'd be less likely to jump ship.

MAC membership, total years-

68- Ohio
67- Miami, Western Michigan
64- Toledo
63- Kent State
62- Bowling Green
43- Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan
41- Ball State
29- Northern Illinois
24- Marshall*
22- Akron
17- Buffalo
8- Cincinnati*
6- Temple*
4- UCF*
3- UMass

*former members

Any of the schools would move if the price is right, but the further up the list you go the more convincing it will likely take.