Yea. Definitely the fault of FSU. I mean, they're the only ACC school to win a national title the last 25 years. And they're tied for second most national titles in that time frame. But it's still their fault the rest of the conference sucked.

FSU does not gain respect because they have not been blowing their opponents away like they did last season. Unfortunately, the current system feels worse---MUCH worse---than the BCS in that ranked teams are pressured to hang as many points as possible on their opponents each week, or to at least dominate each week. Both of these things are very difficult to do, and I don't care what team we're talking about.

It's always been my biggest issue with college football. People base too much priority on style points and winning point margins. They forget that the goal is to WIN the game. NFL teams never need to worry about style points, because the win-loss-tie record for the season determines who goes where in the postseason. A team in that league could win every game by one point and still be in the playoffs to (possibly) win a championship.

That's really why I respect FSU as a team. Even when they've been on the losing end during a game, they've come back to win each one. They've also been doing it against teams that do not have losing records, unlike in Marshall's case where they've had to rally against losing teams, so they have that going for them. It's really hard not to admire such traits. Being undefeated, I'm somewhat surprised that they're not given more credit for what they have accomplished. But I really shouldn't be.

But I'm preaching to the choir... :)

(12-10-2014 02:49 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(12-09-2014 08:40 PM)nole Wrote:  "3. The third culprit is that FSU and Miami went into the tank in the mid 2000's and stayed down a decade, while Clemson was dealing with a 15 year slump, causing programs like VT, BC, WF, and GT to be the ACC standard bearers - often pitting them in bowls where they were outmatched. "



Lumberpack4,

Nice post, but this one is something I take issue with. FSU has won the ACC title in 15 of 23 years.


If FSU was 'down' that isn't the 'culprit'....the 'culprit' is that FSU can't be down for a single year and hope somebody else can carry the load outside of Clemson.

You might be saying as much, but I just wanted to clarify.


FSU's down years it never went below .500 and was still winning bowl games. The REAL issue for the ACC is, it demands FSU carry the load EVERY year. THis is not realistic and honestly, the ACC has been lucky FSU has been up as much as it has been....especially given how much more $$$$ it's SEC peers have than FSU.

For FSU, a down year is 9-3. Sorry, but you are held to a higher standard, although Ohio State and the B10 has developed into a similar situation, if OSU is perceived as down, the B10 is perceived as down, same with Texas and the B12.

The SEC is lucky in that it has multiple schools that can play the big dog role - Bama of course, Auburn, LSU, and Florida.

The P12 has had three over past decade or so - Oregon, USC, and Stanford.

The timing of your dive into the tank was bad, very bad. It hurt the TV contract, it hurt public perception because it vaulted VT, GT, WF, and BC into bowl games one notch above where they should have been.

Yes, that's a lot of responsibility on FSU - more responsibility that you should have had to shoulder, but when Miami was asked to join the ACC in order to split that load, they flopped on their face and until Clemson got it's act back together, you didn't have a lot of help outside a slowly spiraling down VT.

Smaller culprits can be pointed out - GT finding new and unique ways to lose to Georgia over the years no matter how large the GT lead. Clemson inexplicably failing to show up for at least one major game every year for almost decade. UNC, NC State, and UVa not putting a decent product on the football field for the better part of a decade.

There's plenty of blame to go around, but I think you have to admit, some in the media hate Winston, and think he is a thug and a rapist. He strikes me more as goof ball than a thug, but that's just me.

For this year the main culprit is hatred toward Winston.

Next year you will be knocked on your OOC schedule.

ACC coaches and media need to work together and over-rate our teams and under rate SEC teams to start the season as those rankings influence the committee.

Lumber,

Winning 15 of 23 ACC Conference titles, 3 national titles and 3 Heisman trophies, in the 23 years FSU has been in the ACC, IS LIVING to a higher standard.


FSU passed that test and then some.


Look at FSU TV ratings during the 'down years' They were through the roof. And FSU went to and won bowl games then.




The 'culprit' for what ails the ACC is that there is NO DEPTH in this conference. You need 3-4 teams really competing out of 14......minimum.


The 'culprit' are the 3-4 schools that own their state, are LOADED with $$$$, and refuse to back football. The ACC just won't accept this reality, instead wondering why FSU doesn't meet insane level expectations to carry things.


Other teams HAVE to join the game and they just refuse to.

In the SEC when Alabama was down numerous teams stepped up. Auburn, LSU, Florida, Tennessee, Georgia. That's why the SEC has the reputation and credibility it has.

In the ACC Clemson single handly carried the conference in the 80's. FSU did it in the 90's. When nobody stepped up to the plate in the 2000s the ACC earned the reputation and lack of credibility it has.

But by all means continue with the false narrative, although as much as some of you like to brag about meaningless accomplishments IMO you should embrace this reputation. Some of your schools had to work hard to get this bad of a reputation.

The ACC needs two legitimate division winners, and a legitimate division race for each division. That means, at a minimum, the ACC needs two truely good teams (one in each division) and two teams that are pretty good and capable of pulling off a spoiler. Anything else after that is gravy.

FSU is perfect as an elite team in the Atlantic, and Clemson is a perfect #2. After that, BC, SU, and UL are all capable of fielding consistently decent teams with the possibility of being good and being a second #2 team in any given year.

The Coastal is a different story. GT, VT, and Miami could all be elite, but aren't for various reasons. Similarily all of those schools should be consistent #2's but aren't for various reasons. If any of those reasons can get figured out, the top of the coastal should be pretty decent. After that, teams like Pitt and UNC are great 3rd level teams.

Ultimately, for the ACC to gain football credibility, someone has to emmerge as elite in the Coastal and someone has to emmerge as a good #2.

I think that if Miami could ever find itself again and if VT hires a godo next coach, the ACC will take the place that the pac 12 has now (only we will have absolutely elite basketball). That's a HUGE deal, given that our geography is conducive to getting noticed.

EDIT: Those are big "if's," though.
*Miami has come down to Earth, and I don't think that Miami will ever be able to be the []_[] again. Not having a campus stadium, not being able to have the same kind of on field swagger, and not being able to cheat is a major road block.
*VT will have problems finding a coach who can follow a legend.
*GT will have severe academic problems for the foreseeabel future.

I think the FSU disrespect is great! everyone keeps predicting and wanting the Noles to lose, but they keep winning :)

(12-12-2014 02:29 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  I think the FSU disrespect is great! everyone keeps predicting and wanting the Noles to lose, but they keep winning :)

Being disrespected and/or underestimated are tactical advantages.

(12-12-2014 03:13 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-12-2014 02:29 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  I think the FSU disrespect is great! everyone keeps predicting and wanting the Noles to lose, but they keep winning :)

Being disrespected and/or underestimated are tactical advantages.

Assuming they don't get you left out of the game altogether, like TCU and Baylor.