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Rice94 Offline
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Post: #1
Serious ?
I have been reading several of the threads and have noticed a common theme. There are a number of different theories on how to advance Rice Athletics, but all theories include greater financial commitment from the University as at least one component. I am somebody who has been in this camp, but have been unable to answer the following two questions?

1. How much more should the university contribute?
2. Where should they pull the funds from?

Question 1 is the fun one to talk about. Question 2 is much more complex and is a less enjoyable topic. Unfortunately, Rice is not the Federal government and cannot print more currency when they have a deficit or a new project they would like to have. What that means is to provide greater support to one area of the university they have to do one of several things.

1. Get more money from alums/donors/fans. Not really the type of institutional support this thread is addressing as we have greater control over this than the University does.

2. Get more money from students through increasing tuition/fees or enrollment. I think we have done this over the years, but not sure how much more we can/want to do. Doubling the enrollment could do a lot for the school financially through earning more tuition and creating more potential donors over time. The potential cost would be watering down of the quality of students and the education as a whole. With that said, the option is still on the table.

3. Reallocate resources from elsewhere in the University. This sounds like an easy option. My question is if this is the way, which university department/program would you take the money from? How much would you take from that department/program? How would that impact the program/department and University mission?

4. Take from the endowment. I personally view the endowment as a sacred cow that never should be dipped into, but would like to hear other thoughts.

The intent of the thread is to provide greater clarity into where the University should get the funds to provide more support to Athletics. If you were President of the University today, how much additional capital would you invest in athletics on an annual basis? Over the next 3 years for special capital projects (stadiums, locker rooms, etc.)? Where would you get the money from within the institution (Natural sciences, Architecture, Shepherd School, Jones School, Baker Institute, the college system, professor salaries, etc.)?

I am writing this in response to the most common complain I hear. The University needs to commit more to Athletics. I agree with this notion, but have yet to come up with a reasonable answer as to where the University should pull the funds from. I am interested to hear your thoughts.
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2014 09:54 AM by Rice94.)
12-07-2014 09:37 AM
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THRILL Offline
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RE: Serious ?
A loan to the Athletic Department from the endowment. It's an investment that given the recent history of college athletics could and would be repaid. And its more than an investment in JUST athletics, it's a investment in the students and the future of the institute.
12-07-2014 10:17 AM
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Houston Owl Offline
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RE: Serious ?
If I were President I would make two initial points...The University will strongly support athletics in the next year...we will eradicate all rats present in athletics facilities within the next year....we will take every effort to insure that all toilets in all athletic facilities are in proper order within the next year.
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2014 10:21 AM by Houston Owl.)
12-07-2014 10:20 AM
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temchugh Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Serious ?
(12-07-2014 10:17 AM)THRILL Wrote:  A loan to the Athletic Department from the endowment. It's an investment that given the recent history of college athletics could and would be repaid. And its more than an investment in JUST athletics, it's a investment in the students and the future of the institute.

Really? When could the department ever expect to generate a surplus that would allow them to repay a loan? What small private university runs a surplus? Duke and Vanderbilt run $15 to $20 million annual deficits. Stanford uses their huge athletic endowment to cover the difference between revenue and expenses.
12-07-2014 11:36 AM
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mrbig Offline
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RE: Serious ?
I like the idea of earmarking a portion of the endowment as an athletics endowment, that mostly just goes to funding the tuition of scholarship athletes. This gives the appearance of a commitment, but largely amounts to shuffling numbers around on the balance sheet for the University. However, this could then be used to kick start a fundraising campaign for athletics, much of which would be used for the athletics department endowment that would give the department more capital long-term. (Unless I mis-understood previous posts suggesting this) the endowment remains a sacred cow, but the university shows commitment by ear-marking a part of the sacred cow for athletics (the part basically funding athletics already).
12-07-2014 11:52 AM
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RE: Serious ?
This is what we are battling. @McClain_on_NFL: RT @darrenrovell: Kansas State's budget for its band & cheerleaders this year is $211,925, which is 0.35% of the total athletics budget.

We really need to decide if we want to compete or not. You can only starve/ignore something for so long, but I have always been suspicious that starvation has been the employed strategy but not sure who
12-07-2014 12:07 PM
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Middle Ages Offline
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RE: Serious ?
(12-07-2014 10:17 AM)THRILL Wrote:  A loan to the Athletic Department from the endowment. It's an investment that given the recent history of college athletics could and would be repaid. And its more than an investment in JUST athletics, it's a investment in the students and the future of the institute.

+1
12-07-2014 12:31 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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RE: Serious ?
(12-07-2014 11:52 AM)mrbig Wrote:  I like the idea of earmarking a portion of the endowment as an athletics endowment, that mostly just goes to funding the tuition of scholarship athletes. This gives the appearance of a commitment, but largely amounts to shuffling numbers around on the balance sheet for the University. However, this could then be used to kick start a fundraising campaign for athletics, much of which would be used for the athletics department endowment that would give the department more capital long-term. (Unless I mis-understood previous posts suggesting this) the endowment remains a sacred cow, but the university shows commitment by ear-marking a part of the sacred cow for athletics (the part basically funding athletics already).

This.

The almost entirely symbolic gesture by the University would not only eliminate some concerns that a few donors have, but it would also confirm the commitment rice has to a well-rounded education. The hardest thing about raising $200mm is raising the first $100mm... because the concern is always 'what happens to our money if we don't raise it all'? Further, it would serve as a reminder to many of our donors to the general fund that there is more to a Rice education and the Rice experience than the classroom... and while our specific focus in athletics may certainly change... we remain 100% committed to athletics, as we define them over time.

What should be obvious in our conversations is that even those who support athletics 100% disagree on the direction we should take or how to measure progress... SO how do you effectively raise money when we can't even unite on a goal for that money?

The University has made a commitment to athletics... but because it isn't endowed, it CAN be taken away/de-emphasized. Articulated or not, that IS a concern some donors have. Nobody worries that we are going to drop Chemistry as a degree.
12-07-2014 02:45 PM
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Philoso-Owl Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Serious ?
Taking more from students would be ludicrous.

If people want to donate, that is much appreciated.

I'm curious: why is the endowment seen as a sacred cow? I've never understood this view, especially when the amounts we're talking about are such a tiny tiny fraction. A $40M investment to build your EZF, buyout Bailiff, and hire someone else would be a great start, and would be eight-tenths of one percent of the endowment. That's basically the interest rate growth of a couple of months, and seems imminently reasonable as an investment to me.
12-07-2014 06:31 PM
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greyowl72 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Serious ?
(12-07-2014 06:31 PM)Philoso-Owl Wrote:  Taking more from students would be ludicrous.

If people want to donate, that is much appreciated.

I'm curious: why is the endowment seen as a sacred cow? I've never understood this view, especially when the amounts we're talking about are such a tiny tiny fraction. A $40M investment to build your EZF, buyout Bailiff, and hire someone else would be a great start, and would be eight-tenths of one percent of the endowment. That's basically the interest rate growth of a couple of months, and seems imminently reasonable as an investment to me.

In talking with some of the Rice philanthropy people about this I was advised that, proportionately, Rice depends on a lot of the income generated from the endowment to fund ongoing year-year expenses compared to our peer institutions. Hence the reluctance to commit endowment funds and/ or income.
12-07-2014 06:38 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Serious ?
(12-07-2014 06:31 PM)Philoso-Owl Wrote:  Taking more from students would be ludicrous.

If people want to donate, that is much appreciated.

I'm curious: why is the endowment seen as a sacred cow? I've never understood this view, especially when the amounts we're talking about are such a tiny tiny fraction. A $40M investment to build your EZF, buyout Bailiff, and hire someone else would be a great start, and would be eight-tenths of one percent of the endowment. That's basically the interest rate growth of a couple of months, and seems imminently reasonable as an investment to me.

Because the next time, this will be pointed out as precedent and someone else will be trying to take "only 40 million" for some other department/capital project.

Definitely don't want to go down that route.
12-07-2014 06:40 PM
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Philoso-Owl Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Serious ?
(12-07-2014 06:40 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 06:31 PM)Philoso-Owl Wrote:  Taking more from students would be ludicrous.

If people want to donate, that is much appreciated.

I'm curious: why is the endowment seen as a sacred cow? I've never understood this view, especially when the amounts we're talking about are such a tiny tiny fraction. A $40M investment to build your EZF, buyout Bailiff, and hire someone else would be a great start, and would be eight-tenths of one percent of the endowment. That's basically the interest rate growth of a couple of months, and seems imminently reasonable as an investment to me.

Because the next time, this will be pointed out as precedent and someone else will be trying to take "only 40 million" for some other department/capital project.

Definitely don't want to go down that route.

But we employ a whole bunch of people whose job it would be to say no to requests that aren't affordable reasonable investments in an important part of the university. The idea that granting one request of any sort would mean granting others is ridiculous, and depending on how you describe it, either a slippery slope or false dichotomy fallacy.

Second, you could take as interest income from the endowment over several months (a few years) rather than the principle.

The university has incredible wealth. Not using the power thereof to invest in your D1 athletics program, especially given the modern marketing powerhouse that is D1 athletics, says to me the university doesn't care much about athletics. Everything else is excuses. They wouldn't be new excuses, but excuses nonetheless.
12-07-2014 06:47 PM
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Post: #13
RE: Serious ?
FFS.

The endowment is not kept in Leebron's piggy bank. It is not spending money. It gets invested, and the income from it is used to run the university.

The athletic department can't spend a few months' worth of interest because that money is already being spent. Some of it already goes to the athletic department in the form of the institutional subsidy, which was up to $20M for 2012-13.

The most that could be done directly with the endowment is use it as collateral for borrowing. (Even this was forbidden by the charter until sometime in the '90s, and there might still be restrictions on what that loan could be used for.) Frankly, I'm skeptical of the athletic department's ability to repay such a loan.

IMO the solution to the athletic budget is fundraising. I have heard that there have been various restrictions on athletic fundraising over the years. I'm not sure about the current status, but this is the area that might need to be addressed.
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2014 09:58 PM by Gravy Owl.)
12-07-2014 09:58 PM
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Rick Gerlach Offline
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RE: Serious ?
(12-07-2014 09:58 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  FFS.

The endowment is not kept in Leebron's piggy bank. It is not spending money. It gets invested, and the income from it is used to run the university.

The athletic department can't spend a few months' worth of interest because that money is already being spent. Some of it already goes to the athletic department in the form of the institutional subsidy, which was up to $20M for 2012-13.

The most that could be done directly with the endowment is use it as collateral for borrowing. (Even this was forbidden by the charter until sometime in the '90s, and there might still be restrictions on what that loan could be used for.) Frankly, I'm skeptical of the athletic department's ability to repay such a loan.

IMO the solution to the athletic budget is fundraising. I have heard that there have been various restrictions on athletic fundraising over the years. I'm not sure about the current status, but this is the area that might need to be addressed.

As is normally the case, Gravy is making a lot of sense.
12-07-2014 10:02 PM
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Philoso-Owl Offline
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RE: Serious ?
(12-07-2014 09:58 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  FFS.

The endowment is not kept in Leebron's piggy bank. It is not spending money. It gets invested, and the income from it is used to run the university.

The athletic department can't spend a few months' worth of interest because that money is already being spent. Some of it already goes to the athletic department in the form of the institutional subsidy, which was up to $20M for 2012-13.

The most that could be done directly with the endowment is use it as collateral for borrowing. (Even this was forbidden by the charter until sometime in the '90s, and there might still be restrictions on what that loan could be used for.) Frankly, I'm skeptical of the athletic department's ability to repay such a loan.

IMO the solution to the athletic budget is fundraising. I have heard that there have been various restrictions on athletic fundraising over the years. I'm not sure about the current status, but this is the area that might need to be addressed.

I understand all that, but there's a difference between explaining a practice and justifying a practice.
12-07-2014 10:09 PM
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Post: #16
RE: Serious ?
(12-07-2014 09:58 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  FFS.

The endowment is not kept in Leebron's piggy bank. It is not spending money. It gets invested, and the income from it is used to run the university.

The athletic department can't spend a few months' worth of interest because that money is already being spent. Some of it already goes to the athletic department in the form of the institutional subsidy, which was up to $20M for 2012-13.

The most that could be done directly with the endowment is use it as collateral for borrowing. (Even this was forbidden by the charter until sometime in the '90s, and there might still be restrictions on what that loan could be used for.) Frankly, I'm skeptical of the athletic department's ability to repay such a loan.

IMO the solution to the athletic budget is fundraising. I have heard that there have been various restrictions on athletic fundraising over the years. I'm not sure about the current status, but this is the area that might need to be addressed.

My understanding (from reading web accounts of various "State of the University" presentations over the years, such as this one this past September) is that in general the University reinvests more of its endowment income than it spends on running the university.

For example, slide 25 ("Financial Update") in the linked presentation says:

Code:
Endowment: $5.53 billion (as of June 30, 2014)
• 3-year endowment spending rate: 5.45 percent as of June 30, 2014
• 5.37 percent projected for FY 2015

These spending rates are typically moving averages -- a prudent move, financially, that's intended to provide a relatively constant and predictable contribution to support the university's operations despite the peaks and valleys of the investment return (or loss) from the endowment.

In the previous year, the endowment's value rose $14.5%, due to investment gains and contributions. (slide 19 of the 2014 presentation, linked above.)

While it might not be a precedent the Trustees would want to make, especially for athletics, I'd think that it would be possible to allocate funds for specific programs over and above the annual funds (especially if they are short-term "investments" made in high-return years) without actually spending current endowment funds. (They would be, however, funds that would have otherwise been deposited into the endowment.)

In 2013, for example, the endowment returned 13.5%. (Slide 19 of the linked 2013 presentation.) But for the five-year period, the return was only 5.3% due to investment losses in the recession.

In 2009, the endowment shrunk from $4.61 billion to $3.61 billion, which required spending funds greater than the returns, which were negative.

2009 State of the University news story Wrote:...(T)he endowment as of June 30 was down approximately $1 billion from a year ago, both from investment losses and spending, ...

Leebron said the endowment, currently valued at $3.6 billion, is about where it was four years ago. Because the endowment distribution supports about 46 percent of the operating budget, Rice had to take a number of steps to balance the FY 2010 budget. That included a 5 percent reduction in operating budgets and limiting pay raises to those who make $60,000 or less.

A board of trustees policy sets a target spending range from the endowment of 4.5 to 5.5 percent, with a ceiling of 6.5 percent, on a three-year moving average. Leebron said further budget cuts will be needed in FY 2011, which begins July 1, as the university works to get the endowment distribution back to the preferred target range in the coming years.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2014 01:38 AM by Almadenmike.)
12-07-2014 10:57 PM
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Philoso-Owl Offline
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RE: Serious ?
(12-07-2014 10:57 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 09:58 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  FFS.

The endowment is not kept in Leebron's piggy bank. It is not spending money. It gets invested, and the income from it is used to run the university.

The athletic department can't spend a few months' worth of interest because that money is already being spent. Some of it already goes to the athletic department in the form of the institutional subsidy, which was up to $20M for 2012-13.

The most that could be done directly with the endowment is use it as collateral for borrowing. (Even this was forbidden by the charter until sometime in the '90s, and there might still be restrictions on what that loan could be used for.) Frankly, I'm skeptical of the athletic department's ability to repay such a loan.

IMO the solution to the athletic budget is fundraising. I have heard that there have been various restrictions on athletic fundraising over the years. I'm not sure about the current status, but this is the area that might need to be addressed.

My understanding (from reading web accounts of various "State of the University" presentations, such as this one this past September) is that in general the University reinvests more of its endowment income than it spends on running the university.

For example, slide 25 ("Financial Update") in the linked presentation says:

Code:
Endowment: $5.53 billion (as of June 30, 2014)
• 3-year endowment spending rate: 5.45 percent as of June 30, 2014
• 5.37 percent projected for FY 2015

These spending rates are typically moving averages -- a prudent move, financially, that's intended to provide a relatively constant and predictable contribution to support the university's operations despite the peaks and valleys of the investment return (or loss) from the endowment.

In the previous year, the endowment's value rose $14.5%, due to investment gains and contributions. (slide 19 of the 2014 presentation, linked above.)

While it might not be a precedent the Trustees would want to make, especially for athletics, I'd think that it would be possible to allocate funds for specific programs over and above the annual funds (especially if they are short-term "investments" made in high-return years) without actually spending current endowment funds. (They would be, however, funds that would have otherwise been deposited into the endowment.)

In 2013, for example, the endowment returned 13.5%. (Slide 19 of the linked 2013 presentation.) But for the five-year period, the return was only 5.3% due to investment losses in the recession.

In 2009, the endowment had from from $4.61 billion to $3.61 billion, which required spending funds greater than the returns, which were negative.

2009 State of the University news story Wrote:...(T)he endowment as of June 30 was down approximately $1 billion from a year ago, both from investment losses and spending, ...

Leebron said the endowment, currently valued at $3.6 billion, is about where it was four years ago. Because the endowment distribution supports about 46 percent of the operating budget, Rice had to take a number of steps to balance the FY 2010 budget. That included a 5 percent reduction in operating budgets and limiting pay raises to those who make $60,000 or less.

A board of trustees policy sets a target spending range from the endowment of 4.5 to 5.5 percent, with a ceiling of 6.5 percent, on a three-year moving average. Leebron said further budget cuts will be needed in FY 2011, which begins July 1, as the university works to get the endowment distribution back to the preferred target range in the coming years.

Great, great job doing the research for a reply. Looks like it's not as out of the question as people assume even according to the practices in place. The university could certainly afford to make a serious investment in growing athletics without taking on any substantial financial risk.


(And just to clean up my math in light of the more current figure, a $40M investment would be seven-tenths of one percent.)
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2014 11:28 PM by Philoso-Owl.)
12-07-2014 11:21 PM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Serious ?
(12-07-2014 11:21 PM)Philoso-Owl Wrote:  The university could certainly afford to make a serious investment in growing athletics without taking on any substantial financial risk.

It would be interesting to know if there are any precedents for specific investments of Rice endowment distributions over and above that budgeted for ongoing university operations.

Perceived "financial risk" may be quite variable depending on one's attitude and outlook. I suspect that many endowment managers are very defensive and seek to preserve and grow the core (corpus?) endowment and generate income rather than investing in money-losing school programs, unless it's absolutely necessary or the case is successfully made that such investments have a substantial positive impact on the financial health of the university and, ultimately, the size of the endowment itself.
12-08-2014 01:48 AM
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Post: #19
RE: Serious ?
I considered mentioning that in good years, part of the returns go back into the endowment, but I figured that anybody who understood that would also understand the reason for that.
12-08-2014 02:12 AM
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