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Ayn Rand
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BCBronco Offline
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Ayn Rand
For my right wing friends on the site, and especially brovol, you're going to be delighted to learn that a newly found Ayn Rand novel has been found and will be published. More ground breaking than Atlas Shrugged? Time will tell.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014...-next-year

http://www.bustle.com/articles/52368-ayn...y-of-atlas
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2014 08:33 AM by BCBronco.)
12-05-2014 08:30 AM
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brovol Offline
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RE: Ayn Rand
Wow. Honestly, thanks BC. Great info.

As you know, I am a huge fan. I have been so disappointed that the multi-part atlas shrugged movie was so poorly done. That is why Ayn decided not to do the movie. She knew it couldn't be done as well as it needed to be.
12-05-2014 09:01 AM
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BCBronco Offline
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RE: Ayn Rand
(12-05-2014 09:01 AM)brovol Wrote:  Wow. Honestly, thanks BC. Great info.

As you know, I am a huge fan. I have been so disappointed that the multi-part atlas shrugged movie was so poorly done. That is why Ayn decided not to do the movie. She knew it couldn't be done as well as it needed to be.

Yeah, I read both AS and FH and the AS movie was poorly done.
12-05-2014 12:05 PM
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Chipdip2 Offline
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RE: Ayn Rand
We're living Atlas Shrugged, why do we need to read about it.
12-05-2014 01:27 PM
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RE: Ayn Rand
12-05-2014 02:15 PM
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brovol Offline
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RE: Ayn Rand
(12-05-2014 01:27 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  We're living Atlas Shrugged, why do we need to read about it.

You are soot on. And so was Ayn. Scary how prophetic she was.
12-05-2014 03:39 PM
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Chipdip2 Offline
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RE: Ayn Rand
(12-05-2014 03:39 PM)brovol Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 01:27 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  We're living Atlas Shrugged, why do we need to read about it.

You are soot on. And so was Ayn. Scary how prophetic she was.

I've got my 7 year old addicted to Shark Tank. She wants to start her own "Garbage Bag Delivery Route" like Mark Cuban had when he was a kid.

I want her to grow up to be an evil capitalist, to hoard her money, and to give it to people SHE DEEMS WORTHY.
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2014 04:29 PM by Chipdip2.)
12-05-2014 03:45 PM
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brovol Offline
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RE: Ayn Rand
Every person, of all backgrounds and educational levels should read Francisco's speach, but even more so, Galt's speach. It is also on audio a place or two online. Then judge where you are in term of political or economic philosophy. I won't argue beyond that. Just read, and assess. That's it.
12-05-2014 03:47 PM
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Chipdip2 Offline
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RE: Ayn Rand
My favorite example of liberal hypocrisy in regard to wealth transfer.

Students are asked to sign a petition to give up a portion of their high GPA to students who have low GPAs. The standard response, is, "No, I earned it." When the pollster asks, well isn't it the same for high earners who say, "Why are my earnings taxed excessively and given to those who earn less...........after all I EARNED IT."

They hum, they haw, the babble, they mock the analogy for being flawed, but can't explain how it's flawed, then they run away 03-lmfao



(This post was last modified: 12-05-2014 04:34 PM by Chipdip2.)
12-05-2014 03:59 PM
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Dirty Ernie Offline
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RE: Ayn Rand
To me, the more interesting question is, if it is so obvious to not redistribute income, why do we do it?
12-06-2014 01:33 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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RE: Ayn Rand
Ayn Rand was k00l in college, but the whole pure raw trickle-down effect doesn't work for the most optimal running machine and that's been debunked as much as a "give money to everyone" scheme. Let's just be honest and call a spade a spade. It's wanted due to Fairness, plain and simple. People don't want higher taxes on the top 1-5% because people see it as a penalty for success, even though it's not aimed to be that -- nor is it a welfare state system for the poor even though far-left people like it (it's more for our govt's debt; little to the actual poor).

I have to ask far-right-tea people this: Would you rather have a pure-bread laissez faire system that resulted in a not-so-great economy but felt great as being a truly 'fair' system, or a mixed economy that would make socialists & tea-folk both pissy, that was significantly better over decades (but not completely 'fair')?
12-07-2014 05:45 PM
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ESSSS Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Ayn Rand
Quote:Ayn Rand was k00l in college, but the whole pure raw trickle-down effect doesn't work for the most optimal running machine and that's been debunked as much as a "give money to everyone" scheme

It's hard to follow your post.

But if you studied Ayn Rand in college, and your "take away" was that she endorsed "trickle down economics", I'm guessing that you didn't do very well on the test.
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2014 06:44 PM by ESSSS.)
12-07-2014 06:44 PM
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ESSSS Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Ayn Rand
Quote:To me, the more interesting question is, if it is so obvious to not redistribute income, why do we do it?

Why does "who" redistribute income?
12-07-2014 06:46 PM
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Chipdip2 Offline
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RE: Ayn Rand
(12-07-2014 05:45 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  I have to ask far-right-tea people this: Would you rather have a pure-bread laissez faire system that resulted in a not-so-great economy but felt great as being a truly 'fair' system, or a mixed economy that would make socialists & tea-folk both pissy, that was significantly better over decades (but not completely 'fair')?

Most of the "far right" tea party (note to Todd: it's not even a party, there is no headquarters for the US Tea Party. It's a grass roots movement of people who simply want us to spend within our means and do away with heavy handed regulation). You know, like you do in your own household. Pay your bills on time, don't spend more than you take in, etc. If that qualifies as loony to you, well then........your a "far left nut."

We are so far removed from a pure-bread laissez faire system that only a complete nut would even suggest we will move to one. It will NEVER HAPPEN. That day passed with the deaths of Rockefeller and JP Morgan a hundred years ago. You have nothing to worry about in that regard. However, you are losing your freedoms incrementally by having rules and regulations imposed upon you wrapped in "compassion."

I feel bad for the under 40 crowd. They've been conditioned to believe that a crap economy is normal, and have fully bought into the narrative of the left, that only the rich benefited under Reagan. Newsflash. In my entire life I have never seen a recession go beyond a year and a half. This one is going on year 7.

My wife and I were making right around 30k a year during the end of the Carter administration. By the end of the Reagan administration (8 years) we were making triple that, were on our third house, and had sizable 401Ks. Those were great times. Real GDP growth (7% +), a strong belief in the country.

Seriously Todd, what you're seeing from this Debbie Downer president is not normal. You've gone to college and worked you azz off to make something of yourself.........not to fork it over to a bunch of elitist fools in Washington to spend your money as they see fit.
12-07-2014 09:16 PM
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Dirty Ernie Offline
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RE: Ayn Rand
(12-07-2014 06:46 PM)ESSSS Wrote:  
Quote:To me, the more interesting question is, if it is so obvious to not redistribute income, why do we do it?

Why does "who" redistribute income?

I'm thinking Ann Rand proponents will say it is fine for the individual to do whatever they want with their income, keep it, redistribute it, whatever works for them. Just guessing, I read Atlas Shrugged as like a soph in HS, so it has been awhile.

Then, as you say, who is "who"? and my question is, if it is obvious "who" should not be in charge of that, why are they #1 and why do they do it #2.

Then, my statement, I propose the question is simple but I'm betting the answer is not. So if so many think the answer is obvious, why do we do it?
12-07-2014 09:25 PM
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BCBronco Offline
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RE: Ayn Rand
This whole redistribution of wealth scenario is complex. A big part of the redistribution of wealth goes toward necessary infrastructure like roads, bridges and the like. Of course, redistribution of wealth also pays for police, fire, other emergency services, the prison-industrial complex, public education, and of course the military and various wars and foreign occupations.

Social security comprises about 24% of the federal budget. Then there are social programs which comprise only about 12% of the federal budget. Finally, FWIW the top marginal tax rate is currently around 40%. The top marginal tax rate ever was about 90% from the Eisenhower administration through the beginning of the Kennedy era. During the Reagan era it hovered between 40 and 50%, dropping to 35% at the end of his time in office. It may have even gotten a bit lower.

It has hovered around 40% ever since but still way below historic highs. With respect to private wealth, the stock market is at all-time highs, and many of us have increased our personal wealth exponentially, and the wealthier have gotten more wealthy. Many middle-class Americans have done well in the stock market as well. I've got no complaints.

On the other hand, America has just been passed by China in terms of GDP. So who knows what's around the corner. I write all of this to suggest that the big socialist boogie man is not hiding around the corner somewhere plotting to strip us of our wealth and many Americans are doing quite well.

I think it's important to note that all of us are the beneficiaries of redistribution of wealth, not just the poor. For example, I am always amazed that the federal government subsidizes interest and allows me a tax deduction on my mortgage. And not only that, they also let me claim interest deductions on my vacation home. Then, when I choose to rent out my vacation home, any and all expenses related to said vacation home are also allowable as a tax deduction. I make out like a legal bandit.

I am also an author and a consultant. Each and every expense that I incur as a consultant and an author are also tax deductible. I guess that this is the governments way of motivating me to be productive, but this and my mortgage deductions sure strikes me as a form of wealth redistribution with a tint of socialism. And since I am just middle-class, I can only imagine what benefits accrue to the very wealthy. Which is cool with me, because I'm benefiting mightily myself.

But I think it's misleading to pretend that somehow things are not working out economically in America because the government is redistributing wealth to the poor. I am not poor and the government is redistributing wealth to me too. Glory be!
12-07-2014 11:05 PM
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Chipdip2 Offline
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RE: Ayn Rand
Wasn't that long ago you could deduct credit card interest. But they did away with that because..........only the rich use credit cards 03-no

We have been looking at property up north. I was under the impression you could t deduct interest on a second home anymore.
12-08-2014 12:31 AM
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ESSSS Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Ayn Rand
Quote:This whole redistribution of wealth scenario is complex.

Yes, it is.

But I don't think that the underlying premise behind Objectivism is hard to understand.

IMHO....the underlying theme behind Rand's writings is non-coercion.

That it is wrong to initiate force against other person.

Everything else "Randian" flows from that simple statement.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2014 06:53 AM by ESSSS.)
12-08-2014 06:51 AM
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BCBronco Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Ayn Rand
(12-08-2014 12:31 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  Wasn't that long ago you could deduct credit card interest. But they did away with that because..........only the rich use credit cards 03-no

We have been looking at property up north. I was under the impression you could t deduct interest on a second home anymore.

I've got a good CPA that does my taxes, so it's on the up and up. But just to be sure check with your CPA.
12-08-2014 07:12 AM
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BCBronco Offline
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RE: Ayn Rand
(12-08-2014 06:51 AM)ESSSS Wrote:  
Quote:This whole redistribution of wealth scenario is complex.

Yes, it is.

But I don't think that the underlying premise behind Objectivism is hard to understand.

IMHO....the underlying theme behind Rand's writings is non-coercion.

That it is wrong to initiate force against other person.

Everything else "Randian" flows from that simple statement.

You of course realize that WMU athletics are paid for by student tuition and not revenue generated by the athletic programs? Each student pays roughly $900 to support WMU athletics, in other words if you choose to go to Western you're forced to pay out of your tuition dollars to support the athletic program. It's a form of wealth transfer since the athletic programs don't generate enough revenue to pay for themselves. No one seems too bothered by that.

On the other hand if you go to Michigan or Ohio State The athletic programs are self-supporting and pay for themselves. So at Western and other MAC schools The athletic programs are a form of socialism just like my mortgage tax deduction and other social programs. Yet somehow we still enjoy Western athletics.
12-08-2014 07:20 AM
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