Very interesting read...part of the article:

No other Power 5 conference is held to such a ridiculous double standard. The ACC is about to post back-to-back winning records against the SEC for the first time since 2002-03, but the knee-jerk reaction is to continue to discredit the strides this league has made over the past two seasons.

Florida State beat Auburn in the BCS national championship game last January, but that may as well have been 100 years ago. Despite closing an unbeaten regular season in 2014, Florida State is not the No. 1 team in the country to the AP voters, coaches or College Football Playoff selection committee. According to AP college football reporter Ralph Russo, Florida State is the first team since 1993 to be unbeaten this late in the season and not be ranked No. 1 in the AP poll.

Back then, one-loss Florida State was No. 1, ahead of unbeaten Nebraska. We have debated the varied reasons Florida State has come under increased scrutiny this season, but there is no denying one of them is how the ACC is perceived.

https://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/7...age-to-sec

I think if this was 2013 then Florida State would be #1 and headed to the national championship. But since there is a mentality of four teams making the playoffs, then as long as an undefeated FSU is part of that four, then it is okay if they aren't #1.

I don't think FSU is really a ACC perception thing. FSU has played some of the more mediocre teams in the ACC to extremely close games- with a lot of those being home games.
Notre Dame 7-5 they won by 4
Virginia 5-7 they won by 14
Miami 6-6 they won by 4
BC 7-5 they won by 3

that's 2 of the 3 bottom teams in the coastal division and then a middlin Atlantic division team. Last 6 games, they've won by a total of 41 points. I think if anything, FSU is hurting the ACC in that they aren't winning by much larger margins. You say wait, that'll make it seem like it's much more of a top heavy conference. I disagree. Your top dog should beat the lower level teams in your league by more than 14 points. I think if FSU was winning by 30 or 40 points these games, the ACC would be looked at a whole lot more positively.

(12-01-2014 01:01 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think if this was 2013 then Florida State would be #1 and headed to the national championship. But since there is a mentality of four teams making the playoffs, then as long as an undefeated FSU is part of that four, then it is okay if they aren't #1.

This part of the article is also interesting and I agree with:

Now go ahead and look at the Pac-12 North compared to the ACC Atlantic. The Atlantic is the stronger division. But not many have spoken up about the mediocre teams Oregon has faced in its own division because the Pac-12 South has provided the drama.

At least Alabama and Florida State play in their conference's toughest divisions. Oregon does not. Its lone loss came to Arizona, out of the South.

These are all facts. Yet spin has kept many from acknowledging that the ACC has some pretty good teams, and some pretty good wins to boot. Gutting out wins in the SEC is a badge of honor. Gutting out wins in the ACC is a demerit.

The spin needs to stop, because good teams exist beyond the SEC banner. The ACC just proved that in a big way.

(12-01-2014 01:04 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think FSU is really a ACC perception thing. FSU has played some of the more mediocre teams in the ACC to extremely close games- with a lot of those being home games.
Notre Dame 7-5 they won by 4
Virginia 5-7 they won by 14
Miami 6-6 they won by 4
BC 7-5 they won by 3

that's 2 of the 3 bottom teams in the coastal division and then a middlin Atlantic division team. Last 6 games, they've won by a total of 41 points. I think if anything, FSU is hurting the ACC in that they aren't winning by much larger margins. You say wait, that'll make it seem like it's much more of a top heavy conference. I disagree. Your top dog should beat the lower level teams in your league by more than 14 points. I think if FSU was winning by 30 or 40 points these games, the ACC would be looked at a whole lot more positively.

The problem is that the SEC is never held to that same standard. When Arkansas plays an SEC power down to the wire, it's because of how tough the SEC is. When the same thing happens to Florida State playing Boston College, it's because of how weak the ACC is. That makes no sense to me.

(12-01-2014 01:05 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(12-01-2014 01:01 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think if this was 2013 then Florida State would be #1 and headed to the national championship. But since there is a mentality of four teams making the playoffs, then as long as an undefeated FSU is part of that four, then it is okay if they aren't #1.

This part of the article is also interesting and I agree with:

Now go ahead and look at the Pac-12 North compared to the ACC Atlantic. The Atlantic is the stronger division. But not many have spoken up about the mediocre teams Oregon has faced in its own division because the Pac-12 South has provided the drama.

At least Alabama and Florida State play in their conference's toughest divisions. Oregon does not. Its lone loss came to Arizona, out of the South.

These are all facts. Yet spin has kept many from acknowledging that the ACC has some pretty good teams, and some pretty good wins to boot. Gutting out wins in the SEC is a badge of honor. Gutting out wins in the ACC is a demerit.

The spin needs to stop, because good teams exist beyond the SEC banner. The ACC just proved that in a big way.

2 things...
1 P12 is different because Oregon still got to play 4/6 teams from the South. It's not like other conferences now..
2- If you're talking about Alabama with close wins- 2 of their close wins were against teams ranked in the top 25 this week, and a 3rd against Arkansas. FSU didn't get demerits for the close win vs Clemson- a top 25 team- but the other 4 teams they won by a TD or less that were against not good teams.

(12-01-2014 12:51 PM)Maize Wrote:  Very interesting read...part of the article:

No other Power 5 conference is held to such a ridiculous double standard. The ACC is about to post back-to-back winning records against the SEC for the first time since 2002-03, but the knee-jerk reaction is to continue to discredit the strides this league has made over the past two seasons.

Florida State beat Auburn in the BCS national championship game last January, but that may as well have been 100 years ago. Despite closing an unbeaten regular season in 2014, Florida State is not the No. 1 team in the country to the AP voters, coaches or College Football Playoff selection committee. According to AP college football reporter Ralph Russo, Florida State is the first team since 1993 to be unbeaten this late in the season and not be ranked No. 1 in the AP poll.

Back then, one-loss Florida State was No. 1, ahead of unbeaten Nebraska. We have debated the varied reasons Florida State has come under increased scrutiny this season, but there is no denying one of them is how the ACC is perceived.

https://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/7...age-to-sec

I would hope the 4 Best teams in the ACC would beat the bottom dwellers-mid level of the SEC. Only UGA finished with more than 6 wins and every ACC team(in those games) finished with at least 9 wins. Beating 6-6 SC, 5-7 Kent, 6-5 UF should not be chest thumping material. UGA is worth a chest thump. Granted FSU did beat the SEC #1 last year.
ACC is FSU, GT has stepped up and Clemson is Clemson, and now Lville is coming on(for the ACC, Lville been strong). But when Duke is becoming the standard on one side of the conference it makes it a little easier for people to find reasons to discredit the ACC. Glad GT passed Duke, should make for a great CCG.

(12-01-2014 01:15 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(12-01-2014 01:04 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think FSU is really a ACC perception thing. FSU has played some of the more mediocre teams in the ACC to extremely close games- with a lot of those being home games.
Notre Dame 7-5 they won by 4
Virginia 5-7 they won by 14
Miami 6-6 they won by 4
BC 7-5 they won by 3

that's 2 of the 3 bottom teams in the coastal division and then a middlin Atlantic division team. Last 6 games, they've won by a total of 41 points. I think if anything, FSU is hurting the ACC in that they aren't winning by much larger margins. You say wait, that'll make it seem like it's much more of a top heavy conference. I disagree. Your top dog should beat the lower level teams in your league by more than 14 points. I think if FSU was winning by 30 or 40 points these games, the ACC would be looked at a whole lot more positively.

The problem is that the SEC is never held to that same standard. When Arkansas plays an SEC power down to the wire, it's because of how tough the SEC is. When the same thing happens to Florida State playing Boston College, it's because of how weak the ACC is. That makes no sense to me.

The problem with FSU is that it's not a 1 time deal. They've won their last 6 games by a total of 41 points- not even an average of a TD per game. If Alabama had won against Tennessee and Florida(their other 2 unranked teams) by a combined 10 points- you would have a point. But Alabama beat those 2 teams by a combined 35 points.

(12-01-2014 01:05 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(12-01-2014 01:01 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think if this was 2013 then Florida State would be #1 and headed to the national championship. But since there is a mentality of four teams making the playoffs, then as long as an undefeated FSU is part of that four, then it is okay if they aren't #1.

This part of the article is also interesting and I agree with:

Now go ahead and look at the Pac-12 North compared to the ACC Atlantic. The Atlantic is the stronger division. But not many have spoken up about the mediocre teams Oregon has faced in its own division because the Pac-12 South has provided the drama.

At least Alabama and Florida State play in their conference's toughest divisions. Oregon does not. Its lone loss came to Arizona, out of the South.

These are all facts. Yet spin has kept many from acknowledging that the ACC has some pretty good teams, and some pretty good wins to boot. Gutting out wins in the SEC is a badge of honor. Gutting out wins in the ACC is a demerit.

The spin needs to stop, because good teams exist beyond the SEC banner. The ACC just proved that in a big way.

But Oregon is playing 9 conference games, so they've played Utah, Arizona and UCLA from the other division.

FSU's problem is that they have been dominated in the first part of the game by mediocre teams. NCSU led them 24-7 in the first quarter. And they've had to pull games out repeatedly late.

They are being treated like SMU was back in 81 or 82 when they were 10-0-1 and Penn St. was 10-1. SMU wasn't winning big and so was #2 behind PSU.

If you want to cherry-pick that's all true.

The SEC East is as weak as any other conference in the nation.

(12-01-2014 01:54 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  If you want to cherry-pick that's all true.

The SEC East is as weak as any other conference in the nation.

not by the numbers...
look at just Florida. you say they are awful at 6-5.
2 crossover games. Alabama at 11-1 and LSU at 8-4(both top 15 teams).
1 OOC game vs FSU at 12-0

6 games overall against top 30 teams in Sagarin.

SEC East in Sagarin is better than anyone else outside the SEC West and P12 South.

(12-01-2014 01:59 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-01-2014 01:54 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  If you want to cherry-pick that's all true.

The SEC East is as weak as any other conference in the nation.

not by the numbers...
look at just Florida. you say they are awful at 6-5.
2 crossover games. Alabama at 11-1 and LSU at 8-4(both top 15 teams).
1 OOC game vs FSU at 12-0

6 games overall against top 30 teams in Sagarin.

SEC East in Sagarin is better than anyone else outside the SEC West and P12 South.

Sagarin's a joke this year. His formula just didn't take into account the situation this year with the SEC. Ole Miss is #2! Arkansas at 6-6 is #14 (and #11 in his predictor!!!!). They are 2-6 vs. top 30 teams, but are #14 in his rankings. He has SEC 10 of the top 22. Even Tennessee is #30. His predictor ratings are 1. AL, 3. Ole MIss, 4 UGA, 5 MSU, 6 Auburn, 11 Ark, 12 LSU, 18 Mo, 19 FL, 24 A&M, 25 TN.

He seems to have some heavy weight for a good win and heavy weight towards end of the season results (how else do the Hogs get so high?).

It has been over two years since FSU has lost a game (Nov 24 2012 against Fl.).

They deserve to be ranked #1

It's not perfect but assuming they survive GT then FSU will have a chance to put the naysayers to bed and prove those games were close because the ACC is really tough and not because they are this year's Auburn and just the luckiest SOBs in CFB.

(12-01-2014 02:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-01-2014 01:59 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-01-2014 01:54 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  If you want to cherry-pick that's all true.

The SEC East is as weak as any other conference in the nation.

not by the numbers...
look at just Florida. you say they are awful at 6-5.
2 crossover games. Alabama at 11-1 and LSU at 8-4(both top 15 teams).
1 OOC game vs FSU at 12-0

6 games overall against top 30 teams in Sagarin.

SEC East in Sagarin is better than anyone else outside the SEC West and P12 South.

Sagarin's a joke this year. His formula just didn't take into account the situation this year with the SEC. Ole Miss is #2! Arkansas at 6-6 is #14 (and #11 in his predictor!!!!). They are 2-6 vs. top 30 teams, but are #14 in his rankings. He has SEC 10 of the top 22. Even Tennessee is #30. His predictor ratings are 1. AL, 3. Ole MIss, 4 UGA, 5 MSU, 6 Auburn, 11 Ark, 12 LSU, 18 Mo, 19 FL, 24 A&M, 25 TN.

He seems to have some heavy weight for a good win and heavy weight towards end of the season results (how else do the Hogs get so high?).

It's not just Sagarin...
Massey-
Georgia 12, Missouri 15, Florida 29, Tennessee 33, S Carolina 37, Kentucky 58, and Vandy 101.
west
Alabama 1, Miss St 6, Miss 7, Aub 13, LSU 18, Ark 23, A&M 27.

in colley
Ala 2, Miss 7, Miss St 8, Missouri 12, Aub 17, Georgia 18, LSU 24, A&M 30, Ark 35, Fla 41, Tenn 49, S Carolina 57, Kentucky 76, and Vandy 98

(12-01-2014 02:26 PM)Dasville Wrote:  It has been over two years since FSU has lost a game (Nov 24 2012 against Fl.).

They deserve to be ranked #1

what the hell does that have to do with this year? Not a damn thing at all. Soft schedule that they haven't dominated. Sorry not good enough.

The ACC can send the biggest message to the SEC with a dominant bowl game performance. So can the Big 10.

The biggest stage allows for the biggest noise.

Well, the SEC East anyway... However, it is an important step for the ACC to become more relevant.

(12-01-2014 01:04 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't think FSU is really a ACC perception thing. FSU has played some of the more mediocre teams in the ACC to extremely close games- with a lot of those being home games.
Notre Dame 7-5 they won by 4
Virginia 5-7 they won by 14
Miami 6-6 they won by 4
BC 7-5 they won by 3

that's 2 of the 3 bottom teams in the coastal division and then a middlin Atlantic division team. Last 6 games, they've won by a total of 41 points. I think if anything, FSU is hurting the ACC in that they aren't winning by much larger margins. You say wait, that'll make it seem like it's much more of a top heavy conference. I disagree. Your top dog should beat the lower level teams in your league by more than 14 points. I think if FSU was winning by 30 or 40 points these games, the ACC would be looked at a whole lot more positively.

I found it ironic, when teams run up the score they get blasted. Now when teams don't win be enough, they get blasted.

I do think teams that go undefeated have accomplished something very difficult to do. Marshall probably had the easiest path to an undefeated season and failed. FSU is a top four team and the only undefeated P5 team. Guess what, if FSU wins the next three games by 3pts or less, there the #1 team. Personally, I do think Bama is the best team in the country but that is what the four team play off is all about. I would love to see FSU take down Bama for a second straight title.

Is the ACC at SEC level yet no, but I think the future is looking bright with Clemson, Louisville, and Georgia Tech. If Deshaun Walker can play for Clemson next year, that should be a top 10 team. Duke is poised for a 2nd ten win season. NCSU went from 3-9 to 7-5. UNC & Miami like NCSU is very young. The only team that I see going in the wrong direction is VT, which is very baffling. ACC is building of a good year last year and could have another good football year this year. The ACC played the SEC well this year but it must do so for the next 5 years before anyone starts talking about getting "considered" to be at that level.

(12-01-2014 01:01 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think if this was 2013 then Florida State would be #1 and headed to the national championship. But since there is a mentality of four teams making the playoffs, then as long as an undefeated FSU is part of that four, then it is okay if they aren't #1.

exactly....rankings are meaningless as long as you have the opportunity to play your way to a championship