14 times this season an Atlantic team played a Coastal team. They split 7-7. Tell me again how unbalanced the divisions are. Yes, FSU was stronger than anyone in the Coastal but WFU and Syracuse were each weaker than anyone in the Coastal. Louisville and Clemson both split their games versus the Coastal.

(11-30-2014 10:06 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  14 times this season an Atlantic team played a Coastal team. They split 7-7. Tell me again how unbalanced the divisions are. Yes, FSU was stronger than anyone in the Coastal but WFU and Syracuse were each weaker than anyone in the Coastal. Louisville and Clemson both split their games versus the Coastal.

You are what your record says you are. I think it's fairly even. I do believe this year the 3 toughest road venues in the ACC are Florida St Clemson and Louisville.

(11-30-2014 10:06 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  14 times this season an Atlantic team played a Coastal team. They split 7-7. Tell me again how unbalanced the divisions are. Yes, FSU was stronger than anyone in the Coastal but WFU and Syracuse were each weaker than anyone in the Coastal. Louisville and Clemson both split their games versus the Coastal.

The Atlantic has the better teams. Can't argue that. FSU, Clemson and Louisville are all better than the coastal's second best.

And I'm not so sure that BC wouldn't beat Duke

(11-30-2014 11:29 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  And I'm not so sure that BC wouldn't beat Duke

BC might beat anyone. They're a good team. However, BC might also lose to anyone in the Coastal division since BC isn't a great team. They lost to Pitt and barely beat Va. Tech. They probably would have finished no better than 4-4 if they had been in the Coastal.

The notion that the Atlantic on average is stronger than the Coastal is bunk. Louisville lost to Virginia. Clemson lost badly to Ga. Tech.

The two divisions split their games 7-7. How can anyone look at that and say that the Atlantic division is much stronger? =

Don't conflate attendance with strength. They're two different things.

(11-30-2014 10:06 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  14 times this season an Atlantic team played a Coastal team. They split 7-7. Tell me again how unbalanced the divisions are. Yes, FSU was stronger than anyone in the Coastal but WFU and Syracuse were each weaker than anyone in the Coastal. Louisville and Clemson both split their games versus the Coastal.

I don't want to take the time to do it, but I would bet that if you looked at inter-division records over the last five years, you would find the same thing. Atlantic stronger at the top, Coastal stronger in the middle and bottom. Actually, the Coastal doesn't really have a top or bottom anymore, now that Duke has decided to join the game. They only have a middle, and everybody is in it.

(12-01-2014 09:20 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 11:29 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  And I'm not so sure that BC wouldn't beat Duke

BC might beat anyone. They're a good team. However, BC might also lose to anyone in the Coastal division since BC isn't a great team. They lost to Pitt and barely beat Va. Tech. They probably would have finished no better than 4-4 if they had been in the Coastal.

The notion that the Atlantic on average is stronger than the Coastal is bunk. Louisville lost to Virginia. Clemson lost badly to Ga. Tech.

The two divisions split their games 7-7. How can anyone look at that and say that the Atlantic division is much stronger? =

Don't conflate attendance with strength. They're two different things.

See, it's the "on average" statement that's the root cause of the problem here (and, IMO, why the ACC refuses to consider division realignment). Does anyone care if Kansas is better than Indiana? They are both "average" FBS teams! The goal should be Top 25, in which case it's 3-1 in favor of the Atlantic.

Having said that, the proposed trade of GT for UL does nothing to fix that imbalance.

There is no proposed trade. The only thing that works is some type of rotating/non-traditional divisions.

Which division is harder?

It's a simple answer, and it's answered by a simple question: In which division does the last place team have the better chance of winning the division?

What killed Cuse this year was playing Notre Dame, Louisville, FSU and Clemson over a 5 week period. The team got decimated with injuries. When we played Duke and Pitt that didn't happen. The 3 toughest teams were in the Atlantic and that negatively affects the middle/bottom teams in division.

(12-01-2014 09:20 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 11:29 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  And I'm not so sure that BC wouldn't beat Duke

BC might beat anyone. They're a good team. However, BC might also lose to anyone in the Coastal division since BC isn't a great team. They lost to Pitt and barely beat Va. Tech. They probably would have finished no better than 4-4 if they had been in the Coastal.

The notion that the Atlantic on average is stronger than the Coastal is bunk. Louisville lost to Virginia. Clemson lost badly to Ga. Tech.

The two divisions split their games 7-7. How can anyone look at that and say that the Atlantic division is much stronger? =

Don't conflate attendance with strength. They're two different things.

Louisville lost to UVA without Devante Parker. Clemson lost to GT without Deshaun Watson. Everyone knows those two teams are vastly better when Parker and Watson played.

Louisville won't lose to UVA on a regular basis. So if this is one of the main points to your argument, then you might want to go back to the drawing board. We were one yard and a botched punt from going 11-1 in our debut season in this conference with a 1st year coach who had no QB, no O-Line, and his best WR and RB out for the first half of the season.

I can't speak for the rest of the Atlantic, but I can tell you with 100% confidence that our ceiling is much, much higher with our current staff in place. I expect to be consistently better in the future.

(12-01-2014 10:39 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-01-2014 09:20 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 11:29 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  And I'm not so sure that BC wouldn't beat Duke

BC might beat anyone. They're a good team. However, BC might also lose to anyone in the Coastal division since BC isn't a great team. They lost to Pitt and barely beat Va. Tech. They probably would have finished no better than 4-4 if they had been in the Coastal.

The notion that the Atlantic on average is stronger than the Coastal is bunk. Louisville lost to Virginia. Clemson lost badly to Ga. Tech.

The two divisions split their games 7-7. How can anyone look at that and say that the Atlantic division is much stronger? =

Don't conflate attendance with strength. They're two different things.

See, it's the "on average" statement that's the root cause of the problem here (and, IMO, why the ACC refuses to consider division realignment). Does anyone care if Kansas is better than Indiana? They are both "average" FBS teams! The goal should be Top 25, in which case it's 3-1 in favor of the Atlantic.

Having said that, the proposed trade of GT for UL does nothing to fix that imbalance.

Who proposed that? I could see swapping UL and VT, since VT-BC and UVA-UL aren't the most important cross-division permanent rivalries to protect and could easily be replaced with UL-BC and UVA-VT.

If you swapped GT and UL, I guess the permanent rivals would be GT-Duke, Wake-VT and Clemson-UL? UNC would only play at Wake once every twelve years, and Duke would only play at both Wake and NC State once every twelve years? UNC would only play at GT once every twelve years? Yeah...

I think the current setup causes the least trouble. I hope nothing changes until the ACC can go divisionless with three permanent rivals and five rotating games, so every four year player gets at least one home and away against every other team in the ACC.

(12-02-2014 12:24 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(12-01-2014 10:39 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-01-2014 09:20 AM)Hallcity Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 11:29 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  And I'm not so sure that BC wouldn't beat Duke

BC might beat anyone. They're a good team. However, BC might also lose to anyone in the Coastal division since BC isn't a great team. They lost to Pitt and barely beat Va. Tech. They probably would have finished no better than 4-4 if they had been in the Coastal.

The notion that the Atlantic on average is stronger than the Coastal is bunk. Louisville lost to Virginia. Clemson lost badly to Ga. Tech.

The two divisions split their games 7-7. How can anyone look at that and say that the Atlantic division is much stronger? =

Don't conflate attendance with strength. They're two different things.

See, it's the "on average" statement that's the root cause of the problem here (and, IMO, why the ACC refuses to consider division realignment). Does anyone care if Kansas is better than Indiana? They are both "average" FBS teams! The goal should be Top 25, in which case it's 3-1 in favor of the Atlantic.

Having said that, the proposed trade of GT for UL does nothing to fix that imbalance.

Who proposed that? I could see swapping UL and VT, since VT-BC and UVA-UL aren't the most important cross-division permanent rivalries to protect and could easily be replaced with UL-BC and UVA-VT.

If you swapped GT and UL, I guess the permanent rivals would be GT-Duke, Wake-VT and Clemson-UL? UNC would only play at Wake once every twelve years, and Duke would only play at both Wake and NC State once every twelve years? UNC would only play at GT once every twelve years? Yeah...

I think the current setup causes the least trouble. I hope nothing changes until the ACC can go divisionless with three permanent rivals and five rotating games, so every four year player gets at least one home and away against every other team in the ACC.

Keep it as is until or if the ACC goes Divsionless...

(12-01-2014 11:07 PM)ACCslater Wrote:  Louisville won't lose to UVA on a regular basis. So if this is one of the main points to your argument, then you might want to go back to the drawing board. We were one yard and a botched punt from going 11-1 in our debut season in this conference with a 1st year coach who had no QB, no O-Line, and his best WR and RB out for the first half of the season.

I can't speak for the rest of the Atlantic, but I can tell you with 100% confidence that our ceiling is much, much higher with our current staff in place. I expect to be consistently better in the future.

I believe Our history with UVA is every game was around 3 point difference. Good mini rivalry there.