Remember in late October when the SEC West was hailed as the greatest division in history? To do this, the masters of spin were even degrading the SEC East. USCe and Florida and Tennessee and Missouri's mediocre performances at that point meant that they "SEC hype" machine needed to add qualifiers to their distinctions of SEC greatness.

Now, as November has passed, Auburn lost to Georgia and Arkansas lost to Mizzou (after the Hogs beat up on a few SEC West titans)...and we'll see how today's games go. UL vs. KU. USCe vs. Clemson. UF vs. FSU. GaTech vs. UGA. These four games are pretty important for the "SEC SEC SEC!!!" crowd to keep crowing about their superiority.

It'll be interesting to see if anyone in the media is willing to pump the brakes at all on the SEC West hype machine. The train does NOT need to be derailed. I agree that it's the best conference in football. But is it "NFL lite" as they want us to believe? Nope.

(11-29-2014 08:12 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  Remember in late October when the SEC West was hailed as the greatest division in history? To do this, the masters of spin were even degrading the SEC East. USCe and Florida and Tennessee and Missouri's mediocre performances at that point meant that they "SEC hype" machine needed to add qualifiers to their distinctions of SEC greatness.

Now, as November has passed, Auburn lost to Georgia and Arkansas lost to Mizzou (after the Hogs beat up on a few SEC West titans)...and we'll see how today's games go. UL vs. KU. USCe vs. Clemson. UF vs. FSU. GaTech vs. UGA. These four games are pretty important for the "SEC SEC SEC!!!" crowd to keep crowing about their superiority.

It'll be interesting to see if anyone in the media is willing to pump the brakes at all on the SEC West hype machine. The train does NOT need to be derailed. I agree that it's the best conference in football. But is it "NFL lite" as they want us to believe? Nope.

"Trolling, trolling, trolling, keep that Yankee trolling Rawhide." Yes in state rivalry games are always important to the SEC. But, did you notice that the four you cited were all against the SEC East. Still they will be fun to watch. Too bad 3 of them are on at the same time. That stinks. Just like on January 1 when the SEC usually plays 3 Big 10 schools and all three are on at the same time. Somebody really ought to fix that!

You have to wonder if Division replaces conference as far as fans pride.
The SEC had a little of this going on but if conferences get bigger more will come.
Once you get to sixteen or more your division is your conference and the conference an association .

atyclb, I think you lost something

(11-29-2014 08:24 AM)JRsec Wrote:  "Trolling, trolling, trolling, keep that Yankee trolling Rawhide."

I really don't see the need for this thread.

Georgia lost in OT to a good GT team.
Louisville barely edged a 5-6 (5-7) Kentucky team.
Clemson whipped a mediocre SCAR team.
FSU is only up by 5 to an average Florida squad.

Either way, the SEC were underdogs in every game except the GT-Georgia game and yet the underpowered SEC East performed very well against the ACC.

Is the SEC NFL quality? No. But they are the closest conference to the NFL level.

SEC vs. Power 5 opponents this season. 5-6.

(11-29-2014 07:26 PM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  SEC vs. Power 5 opponents this season. 5-6.

Again, what is the breakdown of those games?

I know that Auburn beat Kansas State in Manhattan.

A 9-3 Louisville team beating 5-7 Kentucky by 4 (at home) cannot be judged or counted as the same. But 10-2 Georgia Tech beating 10-2 Georgia in Athens is on the same caliber.

A 11-1 P5 school beating another 3-9 P5 school doesn't really reflect either conference as a whole.

(11-29-2014 05:28 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  I really don't see the need for this thread.

Georgia lost in OT to a good GT team.
Louisville barely edged a 5-6 (5-7) Kentucky team.
Clemson whipped a mediocre SCAR team.
FSU is only up by 5 to an average Florida squad.

Either way, the SEC were underdogs in every game except the GT-Georgia game and yet the underpowered SEC East performed very well against the ACC.

Is the SEC NFL quality? No. But they are the closest conference to the NFL level.

Actually the SEC West hasn't been up to snuff for it's usual dominance. The propaganda was pretty damn good though.

The SEC West was put on a pedestal early and the success of Ole Miss and Mississippi State was used to sell the idea of the SEC West being stronger than ever. That is in spite of the fact that LSU was on a downslide this season, Alabama isn't as strong as usual, Auburn fell off and A&M fell off. Any other conference or division and that is pointed out but not with the SEC.

It may still be the best division in football right now but at any point in time during the season the PAC South had as many teams ranked as the SEC West did. I would put the PAC South straight up against the SEC West. Now that would be a division vs division challenge that would be fun to see.

Alabama vs UCLA
LSU vs USC
Auburn vs Arizona State
MSU vs Arizona
Arkansas vs Utah
Ole Miss vs Colorado

Yes the PAC South trails off there a little at the end but if they won some of the higher up games then it wouldn't matter.

(11-29-2014 08:14 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-29-2014 05:28 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  I really don't see the need for this thread.

Georgia lost in OT to a good GT team.
Louisville barely edged a 5-6 (5-7) Kentucky team.
Clemson whipped a mediocre SCAR team.
FSU is only up by 5 to an average Florida squad.

Either way, the SEC were underdogs in every game except the GT-Georgia game and yet the underpowered SEC East performed very well against the ACC.

Is the SEC NFL quality? No. But they are the closest conference to the NFL level.

Actually the SEC West hasn't been up to snuff for it's usual dominance. The propaganda was pretty damn good though.

The SEC West was put on a pedestal early and the success of Ole Miss and Mississippi State was used to sell the idea of the SEC West being stronger than ever. That is in spite of the fact that LSU was on a downslide this season, Alabama isn't as strong as usual, Auburn fell off and A&M fell off. Any other conference or division and that is pointed out but not with the SEC.

It may still be the best division in football right now but at any point in time during the season the PAC South had as many teams ranked as the SEC West did. I would put the PAC South straight up against the SEC West. Now that would be a division vs division challenge that would be fun to see.

Alabama vs UCLA
LSU vs USC
Auburn vs Arizona State
MSU vs Arizona
Arkansas vs Utah
Ole Miss vs Colorado

Yes the PAC South trails off there a little at the end but if they won some of the higher up games then it wouldn't matter.

Shouldn't Texas A&M be playing Utah instead of Arkansas? Better record and A&M beat the Hogs head-to-head.

That would be an interesting challenge to see and behold. I still hold the hypothesis that the SEC West is the best (internal rhyme FTW) but I cannot say anything with any sense of superiority until the bowl games. None of us can ever truly tell until the bowl games.

(11-29-2014 08:48 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(11-29-2014 08:14 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-29-2014 05:28 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  I really don't see the need for this thread.

Georgia lost in OT to a good GT team.
Louisville barely edged a 5-6 (5-7) Kentucky team.
Clemson whipped a mediocre SCAR team.
FSU is only up by 5 to an average Florida squad.

Either way, the SEC were underdogs in every game except the GT-Georgia game and yet the underpowered SEC East performed very well against the ACC.

Is the SEC NFL quality? No. But they are the closest conference to the NFL level.

Actually the SEC West hasn't been up to snuff for it's usual dominance. The propaganda was pretty damn good though.

The SEC West was put on a pedestal early and the success of Ole Miss and Mississippi State was used to sell the idea of the SEC West being stronger than ever. That is in spite of the fact that LSU was on a downslide this season, Alabama isn't as strong as usual, Auburn fell off and A&M fell off. Any other conference or division and that is pointed out but not with the SEC.

It may still be the best division in football right now but at any point in time during the season the PAC South had as many teams ranked as the SEC West did. I would put the PAC South straight up against the SEC West. Now that would be a division vs division challenge that would be fun to see.

Alabama vs UCLA
LSU vs USC
Auburn vs Arizona State
MSU vs Arizona
Arkansas vs Utah
Ole Miss vs Colorado

Yes the PAC South trails off there a little at the end but if they won some of the higher up games then it wouldn't matter.

Shouldn't Texas A&M be playing Utah instead of Arkansas? Better record and A&M beat the Hogs head-to-head.

That would be an interesting challenge to see and behold. I still hold the hypothesis that the SEC West is the best (internal rhyme FTW) but I cannot say anything with any sense of superiority until the bowl games. None of us can ever truly tell instead the bowl games.

I'm not sure what the bowls would tell us anyway in that case. There are no SEC-PAC 12 match ups, unless we happen to get one in the college football playoff or in an access bowl.


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Indiana should play Bama next week imho.

(11-29-2014 11:14 PM)Doctor Krieger Wrote:  Indiana should play Bama next week imho.

It could be their bowl game.

At least Bloomington, IN is further east than Columbia, MO.

(11-29-2014 08:48 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(11-29-2014 08:14 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-29-2014 05:28 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  I really don't see the need for this thread.

Georgia lost in OT to a good GT team.
Louisville barely edged a 5-6 (5-7) Kentucky team.
Clemson whipped a mediocre SCAR team.
FSU is only up by 5 to an average Florida squad.

Either way, the SEC were underdogs in every game except the GT-Georgia game and yet the underpowered SEC East performed very well against the ACC.

Is the SEC NFL quality? No. But they are the closest conference to the NFL level.

Actually the SEC West hasn't been up to snuff for it's usual dominance. The propaganda was pretty damn good though.

The SEC West was put on a pedestal early and the success of Ole Miss and Mississippi State was used to sell the idea of the SEC West being stronger than ever. That is in spite of the fact that LSU was on a downslide this season, Alabama isn't as strong as usual, Auburn fell off and A&M fell off. Any other conference or division and that is pointed out but not with the SEC.

It may still be the best division in football right now but at any point in time during the season the PAC South had as many teams ranked as the SEC West did. I would put the PAC South straight up against the SEC West. Now that would be a division vs division challenge that would be fun to see.

Alabama vs UCLA
LSU vs USC
Auburn vs Arizona State
MSU vs Arizona
Arkansas vs Utah
Ole Miss vs Colorado

Yes the PAC South trails off there a little at the end but if they won some of the higher up games then it wouldn't matter.

Shouldn't Texas A&M be playing Utah instead of Arkansas? Better record and A&M beat the Hogs head-to-head.

That would be an interesting challenge to see and behold. I still hold the hypothesis that the SEC West is the best (internal rhyme FTW) but I cannot say anything with any sense of superiority until the bowl games. None of us can ever truly tell until the bowl games.

Doesn't really matter to me how they get lined up. I put it together quickly.

The point is that five teams from the SEC West made it into the top 25 this year. The same goes for the PAC South.

It is fun to see SEC fans on the other side of this exercise. It's usually the other conferences who have to say..."Well, it was our 8th best team playing against THEIR 7th best team...THAT'S NOT FAIR!!!"

But if USCe or Kentucky had WON yesterday...we would have never heard the end of it. "That's just PROOF, y'all. The SEC is the best! See! Our 8th team can beat the 7th team from other conferences!!!"

Long story short...the CFP is going to fail unless we can get substantially MORE out-of-conference match-ups between the P5. If we're really supposed to be able to judge the "strength of schedule" objectively. Forget your dumb "eye ball tests"; we need on the field results and LOTS more of them.

I think it is more likely we see an expansion of the Playoff before we see any substantial movement to get the Major conferences playing More games against each other than they already do. Some day maybe, but playoff expansion is coming first, in my opinion.

(11-30-2014 01:13 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  It is fun to see SEC fans on the other side of this exercise. It's usually the other conferences who have to say..."Well, it was our 8th best team playing against THEIR 7th best team...THAT'S NOT FAIR!!!"

But if USCe or Kentucky had WON yesterday...we would have never heard the end of it. "That's just PROOF, y'all. The SEC is the best! See! Our 8th team can beat the 7th team from other conferences!!!"

Long story short...the CFP is going to fail unless we can get substantially MORE out-of-conference match-ups between the P5. If we're really supposed to be able to judge the "strength of schedule" objectively. Forget your dumb "eye ball tests"; we need on the field results and LOTS more of them.

More absurdity atyclb. The ACC teams won their rivalry games. Good for them. In the pieces of the games I saw, they handled their business well.

But for the record:
Louisville 9-3 (third or fourth best ACC) beat Kentucky 5-7 (13th best SEC) by four
Clemson 9-3 (third or fourth best ACC) beat South Carolina (11th or 12th best SEC) by 18
Georgia Tech 10-2 (second best ACC) beat Georgia (arguably anywhere from fourth to 7th best SEC) by six in OT
Florida State 12-0 (first in ACC) beat Florida 6-5 (8th-10th best SEC) by five

Not exactly 7th vs. 8th. The ACC acquitted itself well today, but let's not act like it was FSU over Alabama, Georgia Tech over Mississippi State, Clemson over Missouri and Louisville over Auburn.

Addressing your broader point about wanting more substantive P5 matchups, I don't see that happening until the playoff expands AND adds automatic qualifiers for conference champions. Currently the system rewards strength of schedule but P5s can achieve an adequate SOS with conference games. To risk a loss OOC when there are significant conference games to play works against a team's interest if they believe they have a shot at the playoff. With conference champions guaranteed a slot, a team could schedule more P5 OOC games and still have a shot to gain a playoff spot by winning their conference regardless of their overall record.

That message could be sent this very year when they do their final rankings. That's the one which will "stick" as the final word for the season. Does Baylor get dinged for its weak schedule? FSU surely has been sent a message about the unimportance of having a "zero" in your loss column, something that would never have happened before the CFP era, despite the fact that they scheduled aggressively non-conference. Nobody had three OOC games of the name brand quality that FSU did (ND, UF, and OkSt)...but the committee isn't really rewarding that, unfortunately.

Your point on the actual match-ups of ACC vs. SEC is well-made. But my assertion stands. We need MORE data points to make a definitive (or even SEMI-definitive case). We can't start the season with trumped up SEC conference rankings, especially when a large portion of their important OOC games don't even happen until late November!!! Previous season bowl records should not matter as much as they do in the current season.

(11-30-2014 01:20 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I think it is more likely we see an expansion of the Playoff before we see any substantial movement to get the Major conferences playing More games against each other than they already do. Some day maybe, but playoff expansion is coming first, in my opinion.

I'm afraid you're right. A strong enough message has NOT been sent this year by the committee.

The Big Ten/Pac-12 tried to enforce some stronger OOC scheduling but the advent of 9-conference-games seemed to have sunk this push.