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We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #21
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
(11-28-2014 10:03 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  05-stirthepot
(11-28-2014 10:00 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  Memphis shot 3 of 15 from the field in the second half.

Talent?

It's called adjustments. We dominated the glass in the first half. But I'll play the talent game if you want to. Who recruited all this talent? By the way our two main bigs were both 5 stars by the majority of the recruiting services. We're all the experts just wrong ?

Pastner made a bunch of adjustments last year in our 5 wins against ranked teams, our near wins against Florida and UConn, and other nice wins we had against SMU and LSU.

In Joe Jackson's freshman season we lost to Georgetown in overtime. We had a 2 point lead; the ball and a full shot clock with 49 seconds left. JJ made a bounce pass through traffic that hit Witherspoon in the shins 9 seconds into the shot clock. That is basically all you need to know about adjustments and game situations with young players.

We have our limitations as most teams do. We are small up front, we don't have a ton of outside shooters and we are young, but I'm convinced that we do have talent.
11-28-2014 11:07 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #22
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
(11-28-2014 11:00 AM)1proudpapa Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 08:11 AM)Stammers Wrote:  Our Bigs (Austin, King, Godfrey, Hawkins, Shaq)
100 minutes
18 points
16 rebounds
25.0% field goal (6-24)
54.5% free throw (6-11)

This will be the norm until our guards prove they can beat someone.

The guards shot a good percentage, and took care of the ball last night. Pookie and Markel both got by the defense more than they had in other game, and Woodson even had a blow by layup. They are going to improve.

The bigs' play last night had nothing to do with the guards. They were horrible at both ends of the court.
11-28-2014 11:10 AM
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MemphisTiger15 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
(11-28-2014 11:07 AM)Stammers Wrote:  We have our limitations as most teams do. We are small up front, we don't have a ton of outside shooters and we are young, but I'm convinced that we do have talent.

There's no doubt that we have some talented players (Shaq, Nichols, King, Pookie, Burrell seems like he could be a good player). The problem is having someone who knows what to do with that talent. You can have a Ferrari that'll do 180 mph, but if the person at the wheel cant drive, then that Ferrari is probably going to wind up in a wreck.
11-28-2014 11:15 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #24
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
(11-28-2014 10:49 AM)memphis88 Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 10:33 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 10:30 AM)Joe1 Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 10:25 AM)450bench Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 10:00 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

He is truly horrible. I'd rather have a 55 year old Tommy Lowery.

I compared him to Tony Hubcap Hubbard at the last home game. I think hubcap was better.

04-jawdrop

Just another in a long line of transfer big men that have no business wearing a Tiger uniform but Pastner wastes a schollie on anyway.

Just another example of someone who will post complete crap, without having any clue what he is talking about. Here is your entire "long line" of big man transfers in Pastner's 6 seasons.

2010 - NONE
2011 - NONE
2012 - Hall
2013 - NONE
2014 - Pellom
2015 - Godfrey
11-28-2014 11:16 AM
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MemphisTiger15 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
(11-28-2014 11:16 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 10:49 AM)memphis88 Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 10:33 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 10:30 AM)Joe1 Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 10:25 AM)450bench Wrote:  He is truly horrible. I'd rather have a 55 year old Tommy Lowery.

I compared him to Tony Hubcap Hubbard at the last home game. I think hubcap was better.

04-jawdrop

Just another in a long line of transfer big men that have no business wearing a Tiger uniform but Pastner wastes a schollie on anyway.

Just another example of someone who will post complete crap, without having any clue what he is talking about. Here is your entire "long line" of big man transfers in Pastner's 6 seasons.

2010 - NONE
2011 - NONE
2012 - Hall
2013 - NONE
2014 - Pellom
2015 - Godfrey

you left out Coleman. So, that's 4 in 6 seasons. Plus, Hipp wasn't a transfer but was a waste of a scholarship.
11-28-2014 11:19 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #26
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
(11-28-2014 11:15 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 11:07 AM)Stammers Wrote:  We have our limitations as most teams do. We are small up front, we don't have a ton of outside shooters and we are young, but I'm convinced that we do have talent.

There's no doubt that we have some talented players (Shaq, Nichols, King, Pookie, Burrell seems like he could be a good player). The problem is having someone who knows what to do with that talent. You can have a Ferrari that'll do 180 mph, but if the person at the wheel cant drive, then that Ferrari is probably going to wind up in a wreck.

I was almost 100% happy with Pastner's tenure up until the last 10 or so games from last season. It's unfortunate that we slipped at the end of the year, the same as the 1996 team did.

We beat 5 ranked teams last season; looked good in a couple that we lost and played a lot of good games against other good teams. Going into the conference tournament we were basically the same team as the UConn team that came within a point of losing in the round of 64 to St. Joseph's.
11-28-2014 11:20 AM
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450bench Offline
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Post: #27
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
When you don't start your 2 best players and create the only advantage you have with Shaq and Austin you just have to throw up your hands and say wtf.
11-28-2014 11:21 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #28
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
(11-28-2014 11:19 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 11:16 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 10:49 AM)memphis88 Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 10:33 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 10:30 AM)Joe1 Wrote:  I compared him to Tony Hubcap Hubbard at the last home game. I think hubcap was better.

04-jawdrop

Just another in a long line of transfer big men that have no business wearing a Tiger uniform but Pastner wastes a schollie on anyway.

Just another example of someone who will post complete crap, without having any clue what he is talking about. Here is your entire "long line" of big man transfers in Pastner's 6 seasons.

2010 - NONE
2011 - NONE
2012 - Hall
2013 - NONE
2014 - Pellom
2015 - Godfrey

you left out Coleman. So, that's 4 in 6 seasons. Plus, Hipp wasn't a transfer but was a waste of a scholarship.

Your posts are so free of logic or common sense; I don't know where to begin.

1. Coleman was not a transfer
2. Pellom was definitely not a waste of a scholarship. Before he got injured he was a great addition
3. Godfrey has played 3 games
4. We are the only program that has players that waste a scholarship?

What a joke.
11-28-2014 11:25 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #29
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
(11-28-2014 11:21 AM)450bench Wrote:  When you don't start your 2 best players and create the only advantage you have with Shaq and Austin you just have to throw up your hands and say wtf.

I think we would agree that the idea was to have Shaq sit for a couple of minutes to avoid foul trouble, and have him and Austin playing together a lot of the time. Shaq was awful last night and Austin wasn't much better.
11-28-2014 11:27 AM
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450bench Offline
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Post: #30
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
(11-28-2014 11:27 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 11:21 AM)450bench Wrote:  When you don't start your 2 best players and create the only advantage you have with Shaq and Austin you just have to throw up your hands and say wtf.

I think we would agree that the idea was to have Shaq sit for a couple of minutes to avoid foul trouble, and have him and Austin playing together a lot of the time. Shaq was awful last night and Austin wasn't much better.

Playing one big puts too much pressure on that position and forces that player to try and do too much. Shaq gets in foul trouble because the defensive system is horrible. Shaq and Austin are the keys to any success this team has, if there is any, and the offense should run through them. When they play together, Nick King can play his role as garbage man, which he does well. By not playing Shaq and Austin together, the entire team is just thrown off kilter. You can't win at this level with 1 big guy. Again, Shaq and Austin are our strengths and they play well together.
Not playing them together simply blows my mind and you have to protect your ability to use them. You can do that by changing the entire defensive thought process. Play a lot of zone. Let the other bigs do what they want 25 ft from the hoop. Guard the paint, period.
These points illustrate, clearly, the fact that Josh has no idea of what he's doing.
11-28-2014 11:36 AM
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Tygrys Offline
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Post: #31
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
It is amazing that Patner is into year 6 and still has no idea how to draw up an effective offense against a zone defense. All Baylor had to do was go zone and collapse on the bigs and our offense completely shut down. Here is a recap for those that missed the second half:

- Guard dribbles across half court and passes to the wing.
- The wing player takes two dribbles toward the corner, turns his back to the goal and passes back to the top of the key
- Meanwhile one big is standing at the free throw line and other is attempting to post up, unfortunately at Memphis the coach does not teach guards how to make basic post entry passes
- From there the guard will take a few dribbles to toward the opposite wing
- Then a big will come out about 10-15 feet past the three point line and "set a screen". Of course the defender just goes under the screen because a 35 foot three is a shot the defense is willing to give up.
- At this point the offensive "movement" has run its course and whoever has the ball at this point just tries to go one one.

This is how you end up only scoring 15 points in one half against a zone...
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2014 11:57 AM by Tygrys.)
11-28-2014 11:56 AM
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jgardne Offline
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Post: #32
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
I will say I only watched the first half but our offense wasn't good even then. We basically just passed it around the perimeter from top of key to wing. We would occasionally swing it fast back and forth but there was no movement on the interior, no screening of consequence, nothing to actually pressure the defense and create open shots.

I highly recommend zach lowes writing on the nba on grant land. He does an excellent job of showing a lot of components that go into effective offense including all sorts of off the ball screens and fakes and moves and counter movers, and he includes video of it so you can see it. Our offense does nothing of the sort
11-28-2014 12:05 PM
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Post: #33
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
(11-28-2014 12:05 PM)jgardne Wrote:  I will say I only watched the first half but our offense wasn't good even then. We basically just passed it around the perimeter from top of key to wing. We would occasionally swing it fast back and forth but there was no movement on the interior, no screening of consequence, nothing to actually pressure the defense and create open shots.

I highly recommend zach lowes writing on the nba on grant land. He does an excellent job of showing a lot of components that go into effective offense including all sorts of off the ball screens and fakes and moves and counter movers, and he includes video of it so you can see it. Our offense does nothing of the sort

This has been a frustration of mine with pastner teams. Very little movement away from the ball. Good sharing overall but screens and movement off the ball are sometimes non-existent. And it's something I notice every year.

The other things that drive me crazy is not getting hands up when they're supposed to - this isn't even a bball 101, it's middle school bball skill.
11-28-2014 04:01 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #34
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
(11-28-2014 11:36 AM)450bench Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 11:27 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 11:21 AM)450bench Wrote:  When you don't start your 2 best players and create the only advantage you have with Shaq and Austin you just have to throw up your hands and say wtf.

I think we would agree that the idea was to have Shaq sit for a couple of minutes to avoid foul trouble, and have him and Austin playing together a lot of the time. Shaq was awful last night and Austin wasn't much better.

Playing one big puts too much pressure on that position and forces that player to try and do too much. Shaq gets in foul trouble because the defensive system is horrible. Shaq and Austin are the keys to any success this team has, if there is any, and the offense should run through them. When they play together, Nick King can play his role as garbage man, which he does well. By not playing Shaq and Austin together, the entire team is just thrown off kilter. You can't win at this level with 1 big guy. Again, Shaq and Austin are our strengths and they play well together.
Not playing them together simply blows my mind and you have to protect your ability to use them. You can do that by changing the entire defensive thought process. Play a lot of zone. Let the other bigs do what they want 25 ft from the hoop. Guard the paint, period.
These points illustrate, clearly, the fact that Josh has no idea of what he's doing.

We both agree that Pastner was wrong for having the bigs hedge past the 3 point line to guard their man and the guards were also playing too far out. I think that he seems to have corrected that this season.
11-28-2014 04:06 PM
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tiger2000 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
(11-28-2014 04:06 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 11:36 AM)450bench Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 11:27 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 11:21 AM)450bench Wrote:  When you don't start your 2 best players and create the only advantage you have with Shaq and Austin you just have to throw up your hands and say wtf.

I think we would agree that the idea was to have Shaq sit for a couple of minutes to avoid foul trouble, and have him and Austin playing together a lot of the time. Shaq was awful last night and Austin wasn't much better.

Playing one big puts too much pressure on that position and forces that player to try and do too much. Shaq gets in foul trouble because the defensive system is horrible. Shaq and Austin are the keys to any success this team has, if there is any, and the offense should run through them. When they play together, Nick King can play his role as garbage man, which he does well. By not playing Shaq and Austin together, the entire team is just thrown off kilter. You can't win at this level with 1 big guy. Again, Shaq and Austin are our strengths and they play well together.
Not playing them together simply blows my mind and you have to protect your ability to use them. You can do that by changing the entire defensive thought process. Play a lot of zone. Let the other bigs do what they want 25 ft from the hoop. Guard the paint, period.
These points illustrate, clearly, the fact that Josh has no idea of what he's doing.

We both agree that Pastner was wrong for having the bigs hedge past the 3 point line to guard their man and the guards were also playing too far out. I think that he seems to have corrected that this season.

They were doing it last night. Not as bad but still part of our d.
11-28-2014 04:09 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #36
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
(11-28-2014 11:56 AM)Tygrys Wrote:  It is amazing that Patner is into year 6 and still has no idea how to draw up an effective offense against a zone defense. All Baylor had to do was go zone and collapse on the bigs and our offense completely shut down. Here is a recap for those that missed the second half:

- Guard dribbles across half court and passes to the wing.
- The wing player takes two dribbles toward the corner, turns his back to the goal and passes back to the top of the key
- Meanwhile one big is standing at the free throw line and other is attempting to post up, unfortunately at Memphis the coach does not teach guards how to make basic post entry passes
- From there the guard will take a few dribbles to toward the opposite wing
- Then a big will come out about 10-15 feet past the three point line and "set a screen". Of course the defender just goes under the screen because a 35 foot three is a shot the defense is willing to give up.
- At this point the offensive "movement" has run its course and whoever has the ball at this point just tries to go one one.

This is how you end up only scoring 15 points in one half against a zone...

And yet Woodson missed two wide open 3's when we were still in the game. There wasn't anyone near him. Austin and Shaq also had the ball in prime scoring position at least a dozen times and came away empty.

We don't always get great shots, but we had enough decent looks yesterday.
11-28-2014 04:09 PM
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spankadelphia Offline
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Post: #37
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
Has it ever occured to anyone that Shaq and Austin essentially play the same position and that we have no center to speak of? It make's Pastner's decision not to start them together even more baffling. We're basically doing what we did last year only with 3 guards, a 3 at the 4, and a 4 at the 5. WTF?!??

Shaq looks smaller than last year as well. We have no size underneath.
11-28-2014 04:37 PM
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Tygrys Offline
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Post: #38
RE: We Just Scored 15 Points in the Second Half!?!?!?
(11-28-2014 04:09 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 11:56 AM)Tygrys Wrote:  It is amazing that Patner is into year 6 and still has no idea how to draw up an effective offense against a zone defense. All Baylor had to do was go zone and collapse on the bigs and our offense completely shut down. Here is a recap for those that missed the second half:

- Guard dribbles across half court and passes to the wing.
- The wing player takes two dribbles toward the corner, turns his back to the goal and passes back to the top of the key
- Meanwhile one big is standing at the free throw line and other is attempting to post up, unfortunately at Memphis the coach does not teach guards how to make basic post entry passes
- From there the guard will take a few dribbles to toward the opposite wing
- Then a big will come out about 10-15 feet past the three point line and "set a screen". Of course the defender just goes under the screen because a 35 foot three is a shot the defense is willing to give up.
- At this point the offensive "movement" has run its course and whoever has the ball at this point just tries to go one one.

This is how you end up only scoring 15 points in one half against a zone...

And yet Woodson missed two wide open 3's when we were still in the game. There wasn't anyone near him. Austin and Shaq also had the ball in prime scoring position at least a dozen times and came away empty.

We don't always get great shots, but we had enough decent looks yesterday.

Simply a false premise. Players do not make 100% of shots during warm-ups. Baylor missed as many open shots as we did throughout the game. Our offense was stagnant and only produced 15 points.
11-28-2014 06:00 PM
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