(11-30-2014 08:05 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 07:21 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 06:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This isn't about black on black crime. Quit trying to deflect from the real issue. This is about white people killing black people.

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So you're suggesting that black people being killed isn't a problem. The problem is white people killing.

Got it.

Blacks killing blacks is a problem. The difference is that those people go to jail.

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And cops who are found to have murdered civilians go to jail too

(11-30-2014 09:02 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 08:05 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 07:21 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 06:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This isn't about black on black crime. Quit trying to deflect from the real issue. This is about white people killing black people.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

So you're suggesting that black people being killed isn't a problem. The problem is white people killing.

Got it.

Blacks killing blacks is a problem. The difference is that those people go to jail.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

And cops who are found to have murdered civilians go to jail too

Really? Name some.

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(11-30-2014 08:05 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 07:21 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 06:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This isn't about black on black crime. Quit trying to deflect from the real issue. This is about white people killing black people.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

So you're suggesting that black people being killed isn't a problem. The problem is white people killing.

Got it.

Blacks killing blacks is a problem. The difference is that those people go to jail.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

You can't support that statement. Here is one source that would seem to discredit your point:

Chicago murders go unsolved

(11-30-2014 11:09 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 09:02 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 08:05 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 07:21 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 06:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This isn't about black on black crime. Quit trying to deflect from the real issue. This is about white people killing black people.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

So you're suggesting that black people being killed isn't a problem. The problem is white people killing.

Got it.

Blacks killing blacks is a problem. The difference is that those people go to jail.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

And cops who are found to have murdered civilians go to jail too

Really? Name some.

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Name one who hasn't.

My wife and I were in Wal Mart last night and there were BB pistols in there for sale. I'd be hard pressed if I was an officer of the law to be able to tell a difference between a real hand gun and these pistols unless I inspected it up close.

(11-30-2014 06:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This isn't about black on black crime. Quit trying to deflect from the real issue. This is about white people killing black people.

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You're the one trying to claim racism without demonstrating it.

The reason black on black crime is relevant is because you're claiming that white people shoot black people more often than white people because of racism. So why do black people ALSO shoot black people more often than they shoot white people?

You've taken one statistic and tried to draw a conclusion (racism) without recognizing that the same statistic hold true (blacks get shot more frequently) when race isn't an issue, or even when law enforcement isn't involved at all.

It is intellectually dishonest to not seek to rule out the obvious in any statistical analysis. Black people get shot FAR more frequently by everyone, regardless of the race or job description of the shooter... so any claim about racism by shooters based SOLELY on statistics is a lie. Unless you can produce some overtly racist attitudes by these specific individuals... you know, the sort that would lead them to shoot a black 12 year old in a park as opposed to a black criminal in an alley... then you have no factual argument.

I just find it amusing that once again, these racist jerks are SO clever that they can 'set up' a 12 year old child because of his race and yet not leave any substantial trace of any other racism... yet they can't seem to find any adults to set up.

'Yeah, boy... If I can just get a black kid in a park with a gun... I can accomplish my goals. All I ever get is these criminals that are too hard to set-up.'

Note that I'm not blaming the child nor saying the cops are innocent. I'm saying that drawing such divisive conclusions based on such poor information only serves to widen and not narrow the racism gap that you seem to want to narrow. ANY white person that shoots a black person is a racist, in your mind.

(12-01-2014 01:06 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 06:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This isn't about black on black crime. Quit trying to deflect from the real issue. This is about white people killing black people.

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You're the one trying to claim racism without demonstrating it.

The reason black on black crime is relevant is because you're claiming that white people shoot black people more often than white people because of racism. So why do black people ALSO shoot black people more often than they shoot white people?

You've taken one statistic and tried to draw a conclusion (racism) without recognizing that the same statistic hold true (blacks get shot more frequently) when race isn't an issue, or even when law enforcement isn't involved at all.

It is intellectually dishonest to not seek to rule out the obvious in any statistical analysis. Black people get shot FAR more frequently by everyone, regardless of the race or job description of the shooter... so any claim about racism by shooters based SOLELY on statistics is a lie. Unless you can produce some overtly racist attitudes by these specific individuals... you know, the sort that would lead them to shoot a black 12 year old in a park as opposed to a black criminal in an alley... then you have no factual argument.

I just find it amusing that once again, these racist jerks are SO clever that they can 'set up' a 12 year old child because of his race and yet not leave any substantial trace of any other racism... yet they can't seem to find any adults to set up.

'Yeah, boy... If I can just get a black kid in a park with a gun... I can accomplish my goals. All I ever get is these criminals that are too hard to set-up.'

Note that I'm not blaming the child nor saying the cops are innocent. I'm saying that drawing such divisive conclusions based on such poor information only serves to widen and not narrow the racism gap that you seem to want to narrow. ANY white person that shoots a black person is a racist, in your mind.

I have never made that claim.

Can we stop conflating issues? Please! The point is people are being killed by people who are sworn to protect and serve us. This is a problem. How else was Tamir dupposed to stop the weapon without grabbing said weapon. This is a tragedy and the police officer who shot the kid should never be allowed to patrol again. Maybe we cut people's pensions of they kill someone who is not s threat to them. Any other solutions? Their training is terrible.

(12-01-2014 01:43 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Can we stop conflating issues? Please! The point is people are being killed by people who are sworn to protect and serve us. This is a problem. How else was Tamir dupposed to stop the weapon without grabbing said weapon. This is a tragedy and the police officer who shot the kid should never be allowed to patrol again. Maybe we cut people's pensions of they kill someone who is not s threat to them. Any other solutions? Their training is terrible.

How do you know their training is terrible? Have you ever been thru it?

Here's something else to ponder. A cop will tell you to drop a weapon if you are holding a weapon in your hand. If you have a weapon in your waste band they most likely will tell you to keep your hands up and they will remove the weapon. I have yet to see a cop tell an armed individual to pull a weapon so as to drop it.

There's reports that the officers were shouting at Tamir to drop the weapon. That's why he pulled up his shirt to show the officers the gun. He went to drop it and was fatally shot. This policeman should never patrol again.

(12-01-2014 02:27 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  There's reports that the officers were shouting at Tamir to drop the weapon. That's why he pulled up his shirt to show the officers the gun. He went to drop it and was fatally shot. This policeman should never patrol again.

Have we not learned from the Ferguson ordeal not to trust initial reports? Again, the only time an officer will tell someone to drop a weapon is if said weapon is in their hand.

There is no doubt this is a troubling situation but let's see what the investigation uncovers before we judge whether or not this man should be fired or prosecuted.

(11-29-2014 01:53 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Shoot people in the hip. If someone has a knife from 12 feet away they can shoot to kill. They should have to show a threat. This kid and the ninja sword guy did neither.

Anyone that suggests you shoot to maim immediately loses all credibility. It's hard enough to shoot a target that's moving before even considering stress and other conditions in play making it even more difficult. Center mass until the threat is neutralized.

(12-01-2014 01:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-01-2014 01:06 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-30-2014 06:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This is about white people killing black people.

because of racism.

I have never made that claim.

Really? I've edited your post and the quoted posts responded to in an effort to make it more clear.


Let me add some of your other comments in this very thread alone

Quote:The kid was black so the cop was in fear for his life. Black people are scary.

The precident has been set. I predicted this month's ago .......The Zimmerman Effect

You can't untrain racism

What? You think all this white killing black stuff is coincidence?

Your comment that you 'never made that claim' is not true

Quote:

(12-01-2014 01:43 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Can we stop conflating issues? Please! The point is people are being killed by people who are sworn to protect and serve us. This is a problem. How else was Tamir dupposed to stop the weapon without grabbing said weapon. This is a tragedy and the police officer who shot the kid should never be allowed to patrol again. Maybe we cut people's pensions of they kill someone who is not s threat to them. Any other solutions? Their training is terrible.

(12-01-2014 02:35 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(12-01-2014 02:27 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  There's reports that the officers were shouting at Tamir to drop the weapon. That's why he pulled up his shirt to show the officers the gun. He went to drop it and was fatally shot. This policeman should never patrol again.

Have we not learned from the Ferguson ordeal not to trust initial reports? Again, the only time an officer will tell someone to drop a weapon is if said weapon is in their hand.

There is no doubt this is a troubling situation but let's see what the investigation uncovers before we judge whether or not this man should be fired or prosecuted.

With all due respect, Mach... I don't think ANYONE has suggested that if what you THINK is true IS true that there shouldn't be some changes and/or charges. If it was in his pants and they told him to put it down and they shot him when he did, then YES, there should be charges or changes (I can't imagine that is protocol, so I'd guess charges)... but you're looking at grainy and choppy footage from a distance where I can barely make out arms and claiming to see details... and then taking unconfirmed comments as facts... Just as in Ferguson where he was supposedly shot in the back (according to some eyewitnesses).

If what you think is true is true, then I don't think ANYONE would say the cops didn't do 'wrong'... and may have done some wrong ANYWAY. Most of us are just skeptical of many of these supposed 'facts'... in no small part because of people like Bud above, willing to lie so boldly in an effort to further a cause. Given that he denies saying things that he's obviously said (that this is about race), would you REALLY put it beyond people LIKE him to 'claim' that he heard something he never heard?