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UofMark Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
We should do like the Oklahoma City Thunder and play crowd noise over the pa. #loudcityforareason
11-25-2014 02:52 PM
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Flugel Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-25-2014 02:37 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 11:40 AM)MemTiger90 Wrote:  Even though you can't tell it, the speakers are actually too powerful for the stadium. Now, before some say, "but I can't hear it", hear me out. The speakers are all pointed the same way, and that is straight ahead. So the speakers are shooting the sound out over the North endzone. You can go sit in the neighborhood by the Children's Museum and hear MUCH better than you can in the stadium. Speakers in a stadium need to be pointed to all parts of the stadium. BUT, if these speakers were actually pointed towards the crowd, it would absolutely blow our ears off. Very poor planning and purchasing in that deal.

Actually, it was designed for 60,000 bodies taking up "acoustic space" with all the damping that entails. It's gonna sound like crap in a half-full stadium.

Not really..... It is designed for an outdoor reflection to fill the space. Indoor venues have to factor direct and indirect reflective surfaces much more into the overall needs. Outdoors there is such a loss because the sound obviously has a place to travel outside the listening box. While you do factor the reflective value of capacity crowd as well as other configurations and capacities, this choice of single point of sound distribution is not a very good way to maximize effectiveness and sound pressures that at a more even db level.

In a half full LB you may get more echo than usual and a little more mud but that should be about the only difference. It's still going be really loud at one end and decent at the other the way the have it now.....full or not.
11-25-2014 04:10 PM
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Strat57 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
I know the folks who did the install. I will call tonight and ask them myself.
11-25-2014 04:57 PM
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Strat57 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-25-2014 11:16 AM)Flugel Wrote:  Did I miss something???? This scoreboard/video board one sided PA system is awful. One of the worst I have heard. While the quality is fine, the design is hopelessly derelict. To be heard at the other end, the volume has to be so loud that from my seats on the 48 yard line (scoreboard side of the 50) it is extremely loud. Poor planning.

I do have a large amount of sound experience and why there wasn't a synced system installed that could cover the stadium at lower sound volumes is beyond me. Yeah, I get it that is is cheaper to have one set of speakers at one end only. But other than that, it is by far and away just plain awful. I was hoping that it was a temporary thing after the new screen was installed but obviously, they are not changing it.

Even most large outdoor concert venues use secondary synced (time adjusted speakers halfway out or further) to augment the sound so it doesn't have to be deafening. As a former road musician, who is used to loud volumes, this is by far one of the worse setups I have seen at a supposedly decent football venue.

I implore the LB. To change this as I can't imagine those sitting closer than I do to that side being able to not consider earplugs. It would also lessen the echo problem as well. It was a "cheap" not inexpensive way out that needs to be changed.

Officially off my soap box now.......

Here goes…guy from sign company thought he was getting deal from Peavey. No one asked those using it what they needed. The ribbon tweeters are a problem and they squash the high end to keep from blowing them. Blown five power amps, too. Only third year out there.
11-25-2014 06:22 PM
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MemTiger90 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-25-2014 06:22 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 11:16 AM)Flugel Wrote:  Did I miss something???? This scoreboard/video board one sided PA system is awful. One of the worst I have heard. While the quality is fine, the design is hopelessly derelict. To be heard at the other end, the volume has to be so loud that from my seats on the 48 yard line (scoreboard side of the 50) it is extremely loud. Poor planning.

I do have a large amount of sound experience and why there wasn't a synced system installed that could cover the stadium at lower sound volumes is beyond me. Yeah, I get it that is is cheaper to have one set of speakers at one end only. But other than that, it is by far and away just plain awful. I was hoping that it was a temporary thing after the new screen was installed but obviously, they are not changing it.

Even most large outdoor concert venues use secondary synced (time adjusted speakers halfway out or further) to augment the sound so it doesn't have to be deafening. As a former road musician, who is used to loud volumes, this is by far one of the worse setups I have seen at a supposedly decent football venue.

I implore the LB. To change this as I can't imagine those sitting closer than I do to that side being able to not consider earplugs. It would also lessen the echo problem as well. It was a "cheap" not inexpensive way out that needs to be changed.

Officially off my soap box now.......

Here goes…guy from sign company thought he was getting deal from Peavey. No one asked those using it what they needed. The ribbon tweeters are a problem and they squash the high end to keep from blowing them. Blown five power amps, too. Only third year out there.

So basically it would be worth the money to rip them out and replace them with correct speakers
11-25-2014 06:53 PM
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Strat57 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-25-2014 06:53 PM)MemTiger90 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 06:22 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 11:16 AM)Flugel Wrote:  Did I miss something???? This scoreboard/video board one sided PA system is awful. One of the worst I have heard. While the quality is fine, the design is hopelessly derelict. To be heard at the other end, the volume has to be so loud that from my seats on the 48 yard line (scoreboard side of the 50) it is extremely loud. Poor planning.

I do have a large amount of sound experience and why there wasn't a synced system installed that could cover the stadium at lower sound volumes is beyond me. Yeah, I get it that is is cheaper to have one set of speakers at one end only. But other than that, it is by far and away just plain awful. I was hoping that it was a temporary thing after the new screen was installed but obviously, they are not changing it.

Even most large outdoor concert venues use secondary synced (time adjusted speakers halfway out or further) to augment the sound so it doesn't have to be deafening. As a former road musician, who is used to loud volumes, this is by far one of the worse setups I have seen at a supposedly decent football venue.

I implore the LB. To change this as I can't imagine those sitting closer than I do to that side being able to not consider earplugs. It would also lessen the echo problem as well. It was a "cheap" not inexpensive way out that needs to be changed.

Officially off my soap box now.......

Here goes…guy from sign company thought he was getting deal from Peavey. No one asked those using it what they needed. The ribbon tweeters are a problem and they squash the high end to keep from blowing them. Blown five power amps, too. Only third year out there.

So basically it would be worth the money to rip them out and replace them with correct speakers

Right now, I think the money would not be spent since it is not the school's but the government is the landlord. The person involved with the sign thought Peavey would give him a 1/2 price break but was so in the dark that he didn't know he was getting dealer cost, lol. Not making a value judgement but I would not have bought Peavey sound gear for that venue.
11-25-2014 07:11 PM
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tigergreen Offline
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Post: #27
Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-25-2014 06:22 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 11:16 AM)Flugel Wrote:  Did I miss something???? This scoreboard/video board one sided PA system is awful. One of the worst I have heard. While the quality is fine, the design is hopelessly derelict. To be heard at the other end, the volume has to be so loud that from my seats on the 48 yard line (scoreboard side of the 50) it is extremely loud. Poor planning.

I do have a large amount of sound experience and why there wasn't a synced system installed that could cover the stadium at lower sound volumes is beyond me. Yeah, I get it that is is cheaper to have one set of speakers at one end only. But other than that, it is by far and away just plain awful. I was hoping that it was a temporary thing after the new screen was installed but obviously, they are not changing it.

Even most large outdoor concert venues use secondary synced (time adjusted speakers halfway out or further) to augment the sound so it doesn't have to be deafening. As a former road musician, who is used to loud volumes, this is by far one of the worse setups I have seen at a supposedly decent football venue.

I implore the LB. To change this as I can't imagine those sitting closer than I do to that side being able to not consider earplugs. It would also lessen the echo problem as well. It was a "cheap" not inexpensive way out that needs to be changed.

Officially off my soap box now.......

Here goes…guy from sign company thought he was getting deal from Peavey. No one asked those using it what they needed. The ribbon tweeters are a problem and they squash the high end to keep from blowing them. Blown five power amps, too. Only third year out there.

Spot-on.
11-25-2014 08:00 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-25-2014 08:00 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 06:22 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 11:16 AM)Flugel Wrote:  Did I miss something???? This scoreboard/video board one sided PA system is awful. One of the worst I have heard. While the quality is fine, the design is hopelessly derelict. To be heard at the other end, the volume has to be so loud that from my seats on the 48 yard line (scoreboard side of the 50) it is extremely loud. Poor planning.

I do have a large amount of sound experience and why there wasn't a synced system installed that could cover the stadium at lower sound volumes is beyond me. Yeah, I get it that is is cheaper to have one set of speakers at one end only. But other than that, it is by far and away just plain awful. I was hoping that it was a temporary thing after the new screen was installed but obviously, they are not changing it.

Even most large outdoor concert venues use secondary synced (time adjusted speakers halfway out or further) to augment the sound so it doesn't have to be deafening. As a former road musician, who is used to loud volumes, this is by far one of the worse setups I have seen at a supposedly decent football venue.

I implore the LB. To change this as I can't imagine those sitting closer than I do to that side being able to not consider earplugs. It would also lessen the echo problem as well. It was a "cheap" not inexpensive way out that needs to be changed.

Officially off my soap box now.......

Here goes…guy from sign company thought he was getting deal from Peavey. No one asked those using it what they needed. The ribbon tweeters are a problem and they squash the high end to keep from blowing them. Blown five power amps, too. Only third year out there.

Spot-on.

that about sums it up
11-25-2014 08:19 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-25-2014 06:53 PM)MemTiger90 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 06:22 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 11:16 AM)Flugel Wrote:  Did I miss something???? This scoreboard/video board one sided PA system is awful. One of the worst I have heard. While the quality is fine, the design is hopelessly derelict. To be heard at the other end, the volume has to be so loud that from my seats on the 48 yard line (scoreboard side of the 50) it is extremely loud. Poor planning.

I do have a large amount of sound experience and why there wasn't a synced system installed that could cover the stadium at lower sound volumes is beyond me. Yeah, I get it that is is cheaper to have one set of speakers at one end only. But other than that, it is by far and away just plain awful. I was hoping that it was a temporary thing after the new screen was installed but obviously, they are not changing it.

Even most large outdoor concert venues use secondary synced (time adjusted speakers halfway out or further) to augment the sound so it doesn't have to be deafening. As a former road musician, who is used to loud volumes, this is by far one of the worse setups I have seen at a supposedly decent football venue.

I implore the LB. To change this as I can't imagine those sitting closer than I do to that side being able to not consider earplugs. It would also lessen the echo problem as well. It was a "cheap" not inexpensive way out that needs to be changed.

Officially off my soap box now.......

Here goes…guy from sign company thought he was getting deal from Peavey. No one asked those using it what they needed. The ribbon tweeters are a problem and they squash the high end to keep from blowing them. Blown five power amps, too. Only third year out there.

So basically it would be worth the money to rip them out and replace them with correct speakers

If you wish to pay for it, I'm sure the city can make it happen.
11-25-2014 09:06 PM
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Flugel Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-25-2014 07:11 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 06:53 PM)MemTiger90 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 06:22 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 11:16 AM)Flugel Wrote:  Did I miss something???? This scoreboard/video board one sided PA system is awful. One of the worst I have heard. While the quality is fine, the design is hopelessly derelict. To be heard at the other end, the volume has to be so loud that from my seats on the 48 yard line (scoreboard side of the 50) it is extremely loud. Poor planning.

I do have a large amount of sound experience and why there wasn't a synced system installed that could cover the stadium at lower sound volumes is beyond me. Yeah, I get it that is is cheaper to have one set of speakers at one end only. But other than that, it is by far and away just plain awful. I was hoping that it was a temporary thing after the new screen was installed but obviously, they are not changing it.

Even most large outdoor concert venues use secondary synced (time adjusted speakers halfway out or further) to augment the sound so it doesn't have to be deafening. As a former road musician, who is used to loud volumes, this is by far one of the worse setups I have seen at a supposedly decent football venue.

I implore the LB. To change this as I can't imagine those sitting closer than I do to that side being able to not consider earplugs. It would also lessen the echo problem as well. It was a "cheap" not inexpensive way out that needs to be changed.

Officially off my soap box now.......

Here goes…guy from sign company thought he was getting deal from Peavey. No one asked those using it what they needed. The ribbon tweeters are a problem and they squash the high end to keep from blowing them. Blown five power amps, too. Only third year out there.

So basically it would be worth the money to rip them out and replace them with correct speakers




Right now, I think the money would not be spent since it is not the school's but the government is the landlord. The person involved with the sign thought Peavey would give him a 1/2 price break but was so in the dark that he didn't know he was getting dealer cost, lol. Not making a value judgement but I would not have bought Peavey sound gear for that venue.


Interesting choice of peavey.... I would,have thought something like EAW or similar but it won't matter if the set up is the same as it is now. It is a flawed design regardless.
11-25-2014 09:47 PM
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geosnooker2000 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-25-2014 04:10 PM)Flugel Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 02:37 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 11:40 AM)MemTiger90 Wrote:  Even though you can't tell it, the speakers are actually too powerful for the stadium. Now, before some say, "but I can't hear it", hear me out. The speakers are all pointed the same way, and that is straight ahead. So the speakers are shooting the sound out over the North endzone. You can go sit in the neighborhood by the Children's Museum and hear MUCH better than you can in the stadium. Speakers in a stadium need to be pointed to all parts of the stadium. BUT, if these speakers were actually pointed towards the crowd, it would absolutely blow our ears off. Very poor planning and purchasing in that deal.

Actually, it was designed for 60,000 bodies taking up "acoustic space" with all the damping that entails. It's gonna sound like crap in a half-full stadium.

Not really..... It is designed for an outdoor reflection to fill the space. Indoor venues have to factor direct and indirect reflective surfaces much more into the overall needs. Outdoors there is such a loss because the sound obviously has a place to travel outside the listening box. While you do factor the reflective value of capacity crowd as well as other configurations and capacities, this choice of single point of sound distribution is not a very good way to maximize effectiveness and sound pressures that at a more even db level.

In a half full LB you may get more echo than usual and a little more mud but that should be about the only difference. It's still going be really loud at one end and decent at the other the way the have it now.....full or not.

That is EXACTLY what I said. And that IS the difference. TOO loud. TOO much echo.
11-25-2014 09:57 PM
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Tgrrfan Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-25-2014 09:47 PM)Flugel Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 07:11 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 06:53 PM)MemTiger90 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 06:22 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 11:16 AM)Flugel Wrote:  Did I miss something???? This scoreboard/video board one sided PA system is awful. One of the worst I have heard. While the quality is fine, the design is hopelessly derelict. To be heard at the other end, the volume has to be so loud that from my seats on the 48 yard line (scoreboard side of the 50) it is extremely loud. Poor planning.

I do have a large amount of sound experience and why there wasn't a synced system installed that could cover the stadium at lower sound volumes is beyond me. Yeah, I get it that is is cheaper to have one set of speakers at one end only. But other than that, it is by far and away just plain awful. I was hoping that it was a temporary thing after the new screen was installed but obviously, they are not changing it.

Even most large outdoor concert venues use secondary synced (time adjusted speakers halfway out or further) to augment the sound so it doesn't have to be deafening. As a former road musician, who is used to loud volumes, this is by far one of the worse setups I have seen at a supposedly decent football venue.

I implore the LB. To change this as I can't imagine those sitting closer than I do to that side being able to not consider earplugs. It would also lessen the echo problem as well. It was a "cheap" not inexpensive way out that needs to be changed.

Officially off my soap box now.......

Here goes…guy from sign company thought he was getting deal from Peavey. No one asked those using it what they needed. The ribbon tweeters are a problem and they squash the high end to keep from blowing them. Blown five power amps, too. Only third year out there.

So basically it would be worth the money to rip them out and replace them with correct speakers




Right now, I think the money would not be spent since it is not the school's but the government is the landlord. The person involved with the sign thought Peavey would give him a 1/2 price break but was so in the dark that he didn't know he was getting dealer cost, lol. Not making a value judgement but I would not have bought Peavey sound gear for that venue.


Interesting choice of peavey.... I would,have thought something like EAW or similar but it won't matter if the set up is the same as it is now. It is a flawed design regardless.

I've used Peavey for over 35 years now. They can handle the load. You are right in every nuance you mentioned. A "soundscope: should have been done in the stadium to determine appropriate inflection/harmonics distortion interference. Empty vs. full inflections can be managed with dampening (as you have already said). If major concert venues can play this stadium with a few hours of eq stabilization analysis run, then it should be a no-brainer for permanent PA audio. I posted a similar thread shortly after installation of the video board.
11-25-2014 10:31 PM
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Flugel Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-25-2014 10:31 PM)Tgrrfan Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 09:47 PM)Flugel Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 07:11 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 06:53 PM)MemTiger90 Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 06:22 PM)Strat57 Wrote:  Here goes…guy from sign company thought he was getting deal from Peavey. No one asked those using it what they needed. The ribbon tweeters are a problem and they squash the high end to keep from blowing them. Blown five power amps, too. Only third year out there.

So basically it would be worth the money to rip them out and replace them with correct speakers




Right now, I think the money would not be spent since it is not the school's but the government is the landlord. The person involved with the sign thought Peavey would give him a 1/2 price break but was so in the dark that he didn't know he was getting dealer cost, lol. Not making a value judgement but I would not have bought Peavey sound gear for that venue.


Interesting choice of peavey.... I would,have thought something like EAW or similar but it won't matter if the set up is the same as it is now. It is a flawed design regardless.

I've used Peavey for over 35 years now. They can handle the load. You are right in every nuance you mentioned. A "soundscope: should have been done in the stadium to determine appropriate inflection/harmonics distortion interference. Empty vs. full inflections can be managed with dampening (as you have already said). If major concert venues can play this stadium with a few hours of eq stabilization analysis run, then it should be a no-brainer for permanent PA audio. I posted a similar thread shortly after installation of the video board.


Agreed
11-25-2014 10:37 PM
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Claw Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
Nebraska and Michigan have single-point sound systems like ours. A distributed system around the stadium would easily cost more than Tiger Lane did.

I would agree that large variations in the crowd make tuning a single-point system difficult to impossible. Nebraska said it would take a full season to tune their system and their crowd should be fairly consistent.

Weather however is never consistent. The effect of wind and temperature on a single-point system is larger because of the long throw required to reach the far end of the stadium.

Here is a fascinating article about the system at Michigan.

Sound system design at Michigan
11-25-2014 10:51 PM
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Gray Avenger Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-25-2014 11:40 AM)MemTiger90 Wrote:  Even though you can't tell it, the speakers are actually too powerful for the stadium.

I can damn sure tell it. And who in hell decided that Rap should be the only canned music played the entire time? I am for more band music and less (especially less loud and less rap) canned music. The bald-headed fellow down on the sidelines scratching records ain't cutting it in my book.
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2014 11:32 AM by Gray Avenger.)
11-26-2014 11:26 AM
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Gray Avenger Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-25-2014 01:34 PM)Flugel Wrote:  It is NOT an enjoyable experience and does severely detract from the venue. Loud does not equal better.

Amen.

Quote:Too easy to make right so with the success of the Tigers, and hopefully a greater attendance this season and subsequent seasons, why keep missing an important detail that really does detract from the experience. This is stupid to continue with it next year without a remedy that doesn't take millions to correct.

Just like the problem with inconsistent/incorrect colors. A problem which CAN be corrected and SHOULD be.
11-26-2014 11:31 AM
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Post: #37
Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-26-2014 11:26 AM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 11:40 AM)MemTiger90 Wrote:  Even though you can't tell it, the speakers are actually too powerful for the stadium.

I can damn sure tell it. And who in hell decided that Rap should be the only canned music played the entire time? I am for more band music and less (especially less loud) canned music. The bald-headed fellow down on the sidelines scratching records ain't cutting it in my book.

GA, the music is for the kids and they love it. Watch them bounce on the sidelines. If they like it, I love it.
11-26-2014 11:33 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-26-2014 11:26 AM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  
(11-25-2014 11:40 AM)MemTiger90 Wrote:  Even though you can't tell it, the speakers are actually too powerful for the stadium.

I can damn sure tell it. And who in hell decided that Rap should be the only canned music played the entire time? I am for more band music and less (especially less loud and less rap) canned music. The bald-headed fellow down on the sidelines scratching records ain't cutting it in my book.

The kids who actually play football on the field want the rap music and record scratching...
11-26-2014 11:40 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
i believe the video boards/sound were bought and paid for by the university and we are responsible for the upkeep and performance. as long as we are complaining, they need to stop half doing it and put hard sides over the structure and give up on the fabric. it gets torn off at least twice a year.
11-27-2014 08:49 AM
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wylioats Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Liberty Bowl PA system
(11-25-2014 11:18 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  [Image: who_gives_a_shit.gif]

Me and many others who sit around me. Home side, section 104, mid way up. The sound system is terrible and can't be understood. Now, whether you give a sh!t or not, a lot of fans, do indeed, give a sh!t. Needs to be corrected.
11-27-2014 09:25 AM
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