RocketBBallFan
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RE: Toledo v. Oregon
Yes, an at-large bid was definitely a long shot. It is not time to press the panic button. I can accept losing a couple tough games early in the season if it helps them later in the season when it really matters (The MAC Tournament), which I think it will. The season is a long journey, let's just enjoy the ride and see what happens!
Also, the fact Oregon was picked 8th in the PAC12 doesn't mean that they are going to finish 8th. Preseason predictions don't mean that much. That's why they play the games.
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11-22-2014 10:47 AM |
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rocketinchitown
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RE: Toledo v. Oregon
We always say that "moral victories" are not victories, but in respect to two power conference teams, UT competed. They've shown they can compete and won't bow under pressure lightly.
Some mid majors go to power conference stadiums and then lose by 20. Toledo is tenacious and one of these will swing our way, DUKE Im looking at you.
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11-22-2014 11:17 AM |
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eastisbest
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RE: Toledo v. Oregon
(11-22-2014 11:17 AM)rocketinchitown Wrote: We always say that "moral victories" are not victories, but in respect to two power conference teams, UT competed. They've shown they can compete and won't bow under pressure lightly.
Some mid majors go to power conference stadiums and then lose by 20. Toledo is tenacious and one of these will swing our way, DUKE Im looking at you.
Top 10
Looks like EVERY team was kept within 20 by a mid-major, some within 10.
2nd 10
Already heavy with mid-majors, teams from power conf regularly held within 10, occasionally beaten by mid-major.
I don't think our team did anything spectacular or unusual on losing by 10. I don't think there were any statements made and I believe VCU was missing a key component of their team?
Win MACC or stay home I imagine.
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11-22-2014 11:37 AM |
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rocketinchitown
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RE: Toledo v. Oregon
There still is a lot of the season left. Nobody knows who will rise yet on the schedule including our Rockets.
On the bubble, theses could look like good losses.
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11-22-2014 11:45 AM |
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Boca Rocket
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RE: Toledo v. Oregon
(11-22-2014 11:17 AM)rocketinchitown Wrote: We always say that "moral victories" are not victories, but in respect to two power conference teams, UT competed. They've shown they can compete and won't bow under pressure lightly.
Some mid majors go to power conference stadiums and then lose by 20. Toledo is tenacious and one of these will swing our way, DUKE Im looking at you.
A loss is a loss and the Rocket's got worse from game #one to game #two. The problems can be fixed.The Rockets folded in game#1 and looked lost defensively in game #2. You certainly could see the difference in physical talent from the PAC 10 and MAC. VCU seemed to match up better with the Rockets. UT can be a team that could win one or two game in the NCAA but they need to fix what's broke. Still a couple of studs away from being a top 25 team.
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11-22-2014 11:46 AM |
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falconplucker
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RE: Toledo v. Oregon
(11-22-2014 01:09 AM)inductchuck16 Wrote: (11-21-2014 10:50 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote: Wouldn't expect anything different from people on here - always bitching and complaining.
I would hate to be some of your kids. They probably come home getting an A- on their report card, and you take 'em out back and whip 'em for not getting an A.
You can't seriously be content with our 2 losses thus far? Oregon was picked to finish 8th in the PAC-12....8th!!! I'm sick of always being the team that almost pulled it out. Thanks to these 2 losses that we could have won, we have no choice now except to win the MAC tourney...and we all know how that usually goes.
Sure, there's still Duke left to prove ourselves on the national stage, but they just handled Michigan State the other day so not much hope there.
Really? I would disagree. I thought Toledo play excellent at VCU. VCU's players are all cardboard cutouts. They are all tall, lanky, athletic, and take the ball down the court. VCU also rotates 11 deep. VCU is the type of team, that Toledo would have in no way shape or form, competed against a year and half/two years ago. If Toledo had a little extra quality depth to go to, they beat VCU. They just got tired. Toledo lost to Oregon because of match ups. Boothe has solid fundamentals, but not speed or athleticism. Both Boothe and Garber fouled out, not because of effort, but because of limitations. Not to mention Drummond had a bad night. Toledo had trouble with defense and rebounding with the same personnel last year. They have limitations.
With that said, Toledo will have little problem winning in the MAC and should win the championship. Would you rather Toledo finish the season with a couple of losses and have no chance of making the 64 because of strength of schedule, or would you like them to take their chances against some programs with prestige? Oh, they also have to play all of the quality OOC games on the road, because those teams are not going to come to Toledo.
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11-22-2014 12:02 PM |
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RocketBBallFan
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RE: Toledo v. Oregon
(11-22-2014 11:46 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote: (11-22-2014 11:17 AM)rocketinchitown Wrote: We always say that "moral victories" are not victories, but in respect to two power conference teams, UT competed. They've shown they can compete and won't bow under pressure lightly.
Some mid majors go to power conference stadiums and then lose by 20. Toledo is tenacious and one of these will swing our way, DUKE Im looking at you.
A loss is a loss and the Rocket's got worse from game #one to game #two. The problems can be fixed.The Rockets folded in game#1 and looked lost defensively in game #2. You certainly could see the difference in physical talent from the PAC 10 and MAC. VCU seemed to match up better with the Rockets. UT can be a team that could win one or two game in the NCAA but they need to fix what's broke. Still a couple of studs away from being a top 25 team.
The thing is, VCU and Oregon are better than Toledo right now. Typically, the better team wins when they are playing on their home court and mid major upsets of big teams usually happen at neutral sites, or in the rare occasion, on the mid major's home court. It would be nice to play some power conference teams on a neutral floor in a tournament rather than in a true road game. Coach K's main priority should be to build a team that can win the MAC and compete with the big boys and that is what he is doing.
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11-22-2014 12:03 PM |
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H2Oville Rocket
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RE: Toledo v. Oregon
(11-22-2014 12:03 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote: (11-22-2014 11:46 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote: (11-22-2014 11:17 AM)rocketinchitown Wrote: We always say that "moral victories" are not victories, but in respect to two power conference teams, UT competed. They've shown they can compete and won't bow under pressure lightly.
Some mid majors go to power conference stadiums and then lose by 20. Toledo is tenacious and one of these will swing our way, DUKE Im looking at you.
A loss is a loss and the Rocket's got worse from game #one to game #two. The problems can be fixed.The Rockets folded in game#1 and looked lost defensively in game #2. You certainly could see the difference in physical talent from the PAC 10 and MAC. VCU seemed to match up better with the Rockets. UT can be a team that
could win one or two game in the NCAA but they need to fix what's broke. Still a couple of studs away from being a top 25 team.
The thing is, VCU and Oregon are better than Toledo right now. Typically, the better team wins when they are playing on their home court and mid major upsets of big teams usually happen at neutral sites, or in the rare occasion, on the mid major's
home court. It would be nice to play some power conference teams on a neutral
floor in a tournament rather than in a true road game. Coach K's main priority should be to build a team that can win the MAC and compete with the big boys and that is what he is doing.
Haven't beaten a "power" conference . Team on the road since, oh..., last year.
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11-22-2014 03:10 PM |
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H2Oville Rocket
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RE: Toledo v. Oregon
(11-22-2014 12:03 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote: (11-22-2014 11:46 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote: (11-22-2014 11:17 AM)rocketinchitown Wrote: We always say that "moral victories" are not victories, but in respect to two power conference teams, UT competed. They've shown they can compete and won't bow under pressure lightly.
Some mid majors go to power conference stadiums and then lose by 20. Toledo is tenacious and one of these will swing our way, DUKE Im looking at you.
A loss is a loss and the Rocket's got worse from game #one to game #two. The problems can be fixed.The Rockets folded in game#1 and looked lost defensively in game #2. You certainly could see the difference in physical talent from the PAC 10 and MAC. VCU seemed to match up better with the Rockets. UT can be a team that
could win one or two game in the NCAA but they need to fix what's broke. Still a couple of studs away from being a top 25 team.
The thing is, VCU and Oregon are better than Toledo right now. Typically, the better team wins when they are playing on their home court and mid major upsets of big teams usually happen at neutral sites, or in the rare occasion, on the mid major's
home court. It would be nice to play some power conference teams on a neutral
floor in a tournament rather than in a true road game. Coach K's main priority should be to build a team that can win the MAC and compete with the big boys and that is what he is doing.
Haven't beaten a "power" conference team on the road since, oh..., last year.
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11-22-2014 03:11 PM |
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inductchuck16
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RE: Toledo v. Oregon
(11-22-2014 03:11 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote: (11-22-2014 12:03 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote: (11-22-2014 11:46 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote: (11-22-2014 11:17 AM)rocketinchitown Wrote: We always say that "moral victories" are not victories, but in respect to two power conference teams, UT competed. They've shown they can compete and won't bow under pressure lightly.
Some mid majors go to power conference stadiums and then lose by 20. Toledo is tenacious and one of these will swing our way, DUKE Im looking at you.
A loss is a loss and the Rocket's got worse from game #one to game #two. The problems can be fixed.The Rockets folded in game#1 and looked lost defensively in game #2. You certainly could see the difference in physical talent from the PAC 10 and MAC. VCU seemed to match up better with the Rockets. UT can be a team that
could win one or two game in the NCAA but they need to fix what's broke. Still a couple of studs away from being a top 25 team.
The thing is, VCU and Oregon are better than Toledo right now. Typically, the better team wins when they are playing on their home court and mid major upsets of big teams usually happen at neutral sites, or in the rare occasion, on the mid major's
home court. It would be nice to play some power conference teams on a neutral
floor in a tournament rather than in a true road game. Coach K's main priority should be to build a team that can win the MAC and compete with the big boys and that is what he is doing.
Haven't beaten a "power" conference team on the road since, oh..., last year.
Boston College....yeah, they finished 8-24 last year. We beat them by 3 and we were a 25+ win team. Certainly a nice win for our program, but....it's Boston College.
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11-22-2014 04:44 PM |
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rocketinchitown
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RE: Toledo v. Oregon
Truthfully thats a down year for BC, normally they are rather decent bball squad.
(11-22-2014 04:44 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote: (11-22-2014 03:11 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote: (11-22-2014 12:03 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote: (11-22-2014 11:46 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote: (11-22-2014 11:17 AM)rocketinchitown Wrote: We always say that "moral victories" are not victories, but in respect to two power conference teams, UT competed. They've shown they can compete and won't bow under pressure lightly.
Some mid majors go to power conference stadiums and then lose by 20. Toledo is tenacious and one of these will swing our way, DUKE Im looking at you.
A loss is a loss and the Rocket's got worse from game #one to game #two. The problems can be fixed.The Rockets folded in game#1 and looked lost defensively in game #2. You certainly could see the difference in physical talent from the PAC 10 and MAC. VCU seemed to match up better with the Rockets. UT can be a team that
could win one or two game in the NCAA but they need to fix what's broke. Still a couple of studs away from being a top 25 team.
The thing is, VCU and Oregon are better than Toledo right now. Typically, the better team wins when they are playing on their home court and mid major upsets of big teams usually happen at neutral sites, or in the rare occasion, on the mid major's
home court. It would be nice to play some power conference teams on a neutral
floor in a tournament rather than in a true road game. Coach K's main priority should be to build a team that can win the MAC and compete with the big boys and that is what he is doing.
Haven't beaten a "power" conference team on the road since, oh..., last year.
Boston College....yeah, they finished 8-24 last year. We beat them by 3 and we were a 25+ win team. Certainly a nice win for our program, but....it's Boston College.
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11-22-2014 05:06 PM |
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pono
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RE: Toledo v. Oregon
(11-22-2014 12:02 PM)falconplucker Wrote: (11-22-2014 01:09 AM)inductchuck16 Wrote: (11-21-2014 10:50 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote: Wouldn't expect anything different from people on here - always bitching and complaining.
I would hate to be some of your kids. They probably come home getting an A- on their report card, and you take 'em out back and whip 'em for not getting an A.
You can't seriously be content with our 2 losses thus far? Oregon was picked to finish 8th in the PAC-12....8th!!! I'm sick of always being the team that almost pulled it out. Thanks to these 2 losses that we could have won, we have no choice now except to win the MAC tourney...and we all know how that usually goes.
Sure, there's still Duke left to prove ourselves on the national stage, but they just handled Michigan State the other day so not much hope there.
Really? I would disagree. I thought Toledo play excellent at VCU. VCU's players are all cardboard cutouts. They are all tall, lanky, athletic, and take the ball down the court. VCU also rotates 11 deep. VCU is the type of team, that Toledo would have in no way shape or form, competed against a year and half/two years ago. If Toledo had a little extra quality depth to go to, they beat VCU. They just got tired. Toledo lost to Oregon because of match ups. Boothe has solid fundamentals, but not speed or athleticism. Both Boothe and Garber fouled out, not because of effort, but because of limitations. Not to mention Drummond had a bad night. Toledo had trouble with defense and rebounding with the same personnel last year. They have limitations.
With that said, Toledo will have little problem winning in the MAC and should win the championship. Would you rather Toledo finish the season with a couple of losses and have no chance of making the 64 because of strength of schedule, or would you like them to take their chances against some programs with prestige? Oh, they also have to play all of the quality OOC games on the road, because those teams are not going to come to Toledo.
boothe and garber's limitations were the officials. boothe is hampered by the fact that he is a big slow looking white guy who plays great fundamental defense. he is repeatedly in position, hands vertical or not reaching, and absorbing contact from offensive players trying to attack the basket (without flopping). the officials can't seem to help themselves in calling him for fouls in these situations. if he was playing 30 years ago he would never be in foul trouble. today's game is 3 point shooting and attacking the rim off the dribble. the officiating has shifted (per ncaa mandate) to benefit the dribble drive attack. unfortunately, the emphasis on reducing grabbing and holding has also led to an increase in calling fouls on players who play good position defense beat their man to the spot and absorb contact. the rockets played a flat game, imo, at oregon. i would have liked to see coach k throw a fit, get a tech mid game, fire up his guys, get in the officials heads a little and see if that works. our offense needs to go through the big guys a bit (especially boothe). meanwhile, with no rim protection and lauf and weatherspoon playing out of position the last 8 minutes (with both big guys fouled out) our defense broke down. both of those losses we win at home. that's the challenge of being a mac team. you're not gonna get name teams who are as good as you or a little better to come to your house. you gotta get into neutral court tournaments or be better than them if you go on their court.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2014 07:23 PM by pono.)
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11-22-2014 07:20 PM |
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H2Oville Rocket
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RE: Toledo v. Oregon
(11-22-2014 05:06 PM)rocketinchitown Wrote: Truthfully thats a down year for BC, normally they are rather decent bball squad.
(11-22-2014 04:44 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote: (11-22-2014 03:11 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote: (11-22-2014 12:03 PM)RocketBBallFan Wrote: (11-22-2014 11:46 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote: A loss is a loss and the Rocket's got worse from game #one to game #two. The problems can be fixed.The Rockets folded in game#1 and looked lost defensively in game #2. You certainly could see the difference in physical talent from the PAC 10 and MAC. VCU seemed to match up better with the Rockets. UT can be a team that
could win one or two game in the NCAA but they need to fix what's broke. Still a couple of studs away from being a top 25 team.
The thing is, VCU and Oregon are better than Toledo right now. Typically, the better team wins when they are playing on their home court and mid major upsets of big teams usually happen at neutral sites, or in the rare occasion, on the mid major's
home court. It would be nice to play some power conference teams on a neutral
floor in a tournament rather than in a true road game. Coach K's main priority should be to build a team that can win the MAC and compete with the big boys and that is what he is doing.
Haven't beaten a "power" conference team on the road since, oh..., last year.
Boston College....yeah, they finished 8-24 last year. We beat them by 3 and we were a 25+ win team. Certainly a nice win for our program, but....it's Boston College.
Then say what you mean.
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11-22-2014 10:46 PM |
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