(11-22-2014 11:53 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(11-22-2014 10:43 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(11-22-2014 10:19 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  UVa has played in one Sugar Bowl and lost it 20 years ago. UNC has played in three Sugar or Cotton Bowls, all 65 years ago.

Pretty sad record given the level of ACC competition.

Are they really comfortable with that? They don't aspire to more?

If so, that's fine. Stay put and never be able to keep a coach that a Big 10 or SEC school comes after.

UVa does not "aspire" to be a football factory. They don't need it. They are old, rich, and as close to an Ivy League school that a public school gets. You are applying Texas-based values onto UVa. Their values are different. The vast majority of UNC alums and boosters made peace with football mediocrity a half century ago - as long as they had basketball. It's a tiny sliver at UNC that are the big-time football boosters and their credibility has been destroyed by the cheating scandal. Athletics, football in particular, is a costly side show at UNC-Ch.

Sure, they would both love to win a national championship in football, but UVa has too much integrity to stoop low enough and every time UNC has stooped that low it has come back to bite them on the ass.

I know you need football in the deep south to self-validate, but not in the mid South or mid Atlantic region. Not playing big time football has not hurt Chicago, Harvard, Case-Western, Columbia, or Cornell and it wont hurt UNC or UVa to play it at a mediocre level.

Let me get this straight. Public Ivy's exist only in the Public's mind. Ivy is Ivy through and through and the closest thing the ACC has to one is Duke, which of course is private. Virginia is a very fine academic school, no doubt one of the best in the nation, but they are not an Ivy.

Second, I don't get this "only football boosters cheat at Chapel Hill" tone to your post, especially in light of the present cheating scandal which clearly implicates both the men's and women's hoops programs along with football. It seems that the cheating crosses basketball an football lines fluidly and even extends to some minor sports with regards to the bogus classes. So I don't buy that.

As for not stooping low at UVa there is an ongoing investigation into a series of rapes committed by males in Greek houses on campus that may make the Winston allegations at F.S.U. seem like a small issue by comparison.

And if indeed as you suggest, and I do agree, that football is not an emphasis at those flagship schools in the mid Atlantic then by what right do you consider yourself to be P5 with regards to football, other than by the few football first schools you claim in the deep South (the very people you deride by saying they need self validations surreptitiously, an arrogant position to be sure) and the one lone outpost in Blacksburg.

But as to your final paragraph, I am in total agreement. Football is not needed to be among the finest academic institutions in the country. And that is a lesson that many schools could learn from. Johns Hopkins and the University of Chicago, and Emory are good examples to use here.

So while there is a good deal of truth in your post, and I always appreciate that in your posts, there is nevertheless great room for less elitist claims on behalf of the Public schools and a bit more realism about how basketball first mentality at U.N.C. and UVa affects the way that the rest of the P5 view the ACC. And by the way if you were truly academic and truly Ivy you wouldn't need basketball to self validate either. In the South it's true that football gives the fan base a self validating chest thumping and bragging permit. In the Mid Atlantic basketball gives the alumni the right to do the same (if not to say we don't stink at everything). Lacrosse gives them something rich white kids can do to feel important and their parents something to brag about. So in both cases the purpose of sports is to self validate some kind of misdirected ego issue. God bless the institutions that don't need anything but the next innovative surgeon, physicist, or researcher to validate themselves. That's not as much about misplaced pride as it is progress and that is the sole mission of all forms of education.

(11-22-2014 02:59 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  

(11-22-2014 11:23 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-22-2014 11:15 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  Sorry bro, you're the one talking about ESPN walking around a table whispering in ears and saying ECU to the SEC. You can't say that sort of thing and expect to be taken seriously, then say you're having an "adult conversation". You're throwing crap against the wall. I'm all for that 'cause this is a message board and that's what people do on message boards...but when someone calls you out for it, don't throw a hissyfit and say I'm just attacking. I'm not. I'm just not buying what you're trying to peddle. I'm hardly the one being childish. I gave you a lot of leeway here, but it became evident you were talking out of your rear end. The SEC may WANT North Carolina, but they certainly don't NEED North Carolina bad enough to resort to taking an American Conference team (sorry AAC fans). If they can't get either UNC or NCState, they'll be contented with what they do have and that's that or MAYBE look out west (OSU, Tech, K-State, Baylor, TCU?) The SEC would probably consider it sullying themselves to take a G5 school at this point and frankly, I think doing so WOULD damage their image (sorry G5 fans) a little.

Bro? Thank you for proving my point. As I said, I understand that the concept is beyond you. I am sorry that your infantile mind cannot grasp the concept that this was just a discussion. So you decided to blow it up....as a child would do.

The fact that you are saying I am the one having a hissyfit is amusing. Project much?

Listen kid, I know you're trying to play the "smartest kid in the room" card here, but come off it. The more you attack me for pointing out how full of crap you are, the less credible you're making yourself sound. ECU to the SEC. Sure. And I'll be the next Pope...

Other posters in here may pull that stick from your ass, sniff it, tell you how wonderful it smells before gently placing it back into your anus...but I ain't that guy, pal. I know BS when I smell it, and your posts are reeking of it right now. If you want to come on out and say that you're speculating and throwing crap against the wall like everyone else on a message board, that's fine. Like I said, that's what these boards are for. However, stop acting like you know something when it's brutally obvious to those of us with half a brain that you really don't.

Oh, first you call me bro and then you call me kid. Please, keep on acting like you are. It is amusing to see someone so ignorant trying to act like it can judge me.

I realize you probably are being very sincere when you say you only have half a brain but that doesn't mean you cant aspire for more.

I never made any grand claims about my posts or scenario. You did and that says it all. As I said before, project much?

Like I said, by attacking me for not accepting your crap at face value reflects more negatively upon you than it does me. Are ya' feeling a little insecure 'cause you KNOW you're talking out of your rear end, maybe?

This was a good discussion. Too bad.

(11-22-2014 05:16 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  Like I said, by attacking me for not accepting your crap at face value reflects more negatively upon you than it does me. Are ya' feeling a little insecure 'cause you KNOW you're talking out of your rear end, maybe?

You really do have a projection problem. I simply called out your attacks. I even made it clear my intentions and what I was doing. You sincerely seem unable to comprehend or you simply do not wish to accept my answers.

Insecure? Are you new to this? You have done well to show yourself as a pure troll. We had a decent conversation going on, that is all. You have tried to present it as otherwise and have completely disrupted it. I suppose because you are part of the ACC MOB around here, nothing will be done about it.

Seriously, what have you added except attacks? You are a hypocrite of the highest order. Trying to claim I am all about attacks while you have done Nothing But attacks. We were having a conversation, if I am now simply making a fool out of you, it is because that is all that is left of this thread at this point.

If you wish to think you are getting one over on me, then by all means continue thinking that, you only make this easier for me with your foolishness.

(11-22-2014 05:44 PM)ringmaster Wrote:  This was a good discussion. Too bad.

It's not my fault this forum is now overrun by the ACC Mob. You guys should teach them better over on that ACC forum.

I cant even have a conversation with some of you without others coming in and acting like complete fools.

I cant even simply discuss the topic in a mature manner without having my words completely twisted and turned while this idiot creates his own straw men arguments out of my words with his "half brain" imagination.

It is obvious who the disruption is and whom was disrupted.

ECU to the SEC. West Virginia was a hub of information. And you want to be taken seriously. It's adorable, honestly.

Enough of the back and forth over this issue guys.

(11-22-2014 09:09 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Well, Bullet responded pretty much exactly as I would have but with even more detail. It is a little known fact that USC is a Methodist school. The thing is though, it is like an SMU. It isn't really run by the religious wing anymore. The same can be said of TCU. BYU's leadership causes it to have some serious discrepancies with the rest of the PAC. TCU isn't that way from what I have seen.

Now Baylor...I could see some problem there. They Do have some religious classes that I do believe you have to take in order to graduate. I think Baylor is a no go for the PAC but TCU isn't that way. If someone knows otherwise, by all means educate me in that but for now I assume it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

Just look at what USC did for the 2016 schedule. They signed a Neutral site game against Alabama in what Metro area? That's right, DFW. They are playing in Arlington, Texas. TCU provides a location in that Metro area within the conference.


Yes, religious institutes fit well in the ACC. I originally had TCU pegged for the ACC and I said 50/50 chance between the PAC and the ACC. I just don't see enough in that scenario to get the PAC on board. I think slipping TCU out there and that DFW market, that should help.

Yes I am absolutely saying Texas and ND with partial deals with the ACC. I originally thought Texas would take the six game deal in order to have two protected games with the two Texas schools going with them. If it ends up being WVU though then I don't think Texas would care to do that. Will the ACC agree to a 5 game deal with Texas and still give them a protected match up every year against Baylor? That would leave Texas seven games a year to schedule oocly. That means Oklahoma, Texas Tech (in order to get them to go along with this plan), a game or two against California teams, Notre Dame, finishing with 2 or 3 other games against Texas schools.

Now you could switch up that ooc schedule anyway but I decided to illustrate how they could have so much more of everything they seem to cherish in their ooc scheduling. They want to play Notre Dame. They always play a California team. If they leave the Big 12 they will need to maintain ooc games with Texas programs. With 7 ooc games a year, that is very easy to do.

I don't know how Baylor/TCU or Baylor/WVU isn't a strong football addition. Now if the ACC ends up blocking a particular move by the SEC, then they would end up with UConn instead of WVU. I don't think they would do that in the end though.

If I'm the ACC I'd tell the SEC "You want West Virginia? They're yours to have." Even if one thinks the risk is small I don't want the chance that one of the other major conferences gets a foothold in either Virginia or North Carolina. Look at what happen in South Carolina when USC-e went to the SEC. The Gamecocks slowly but surely raised their profile in that state and now is considered to be as popular or more popular than Clemson. This is what having a heavy hitter like the Southeastern Conference can do for your school. Better to go north and solidify your presence in the Northeast and get one more basketball power, along with setting up camp in the state of Texas for football reasons. Also, Connecticut has much better academics. Basketball on the rumored-to-be network would be off the charts. Content, content, content.

(11-22-2014 08:37 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(11-22-2014 09:09 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Well, Bullet responded pretty much exactly as I would have but with even more detail. It is a little known fact that USC is a Methodist school. The thing is though, it is like an SMU. It isn't really run by the religious wing anymore. The same can be said of TCU. BYU's leadership causes it to have some serious discrepancies with the rest of the PAC. TCU isn't that way from what I have seen.

Now Baylor...I could see some problem there. They Do have some religious classes that I do believe you have to take in order to graduate. I think Baylor is a no go for the PAC but TCU isn't that way. If someone knows otherwise, by all means educate me in that but for now I assume it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

Just look at what USC did for the 2016 schedule. They signed a Neutral site game against Alabama in what Metro area? That's right, DFW. They are playing in Arlington, Texas. TCU provides a location in that Metro area within the conference.


Yes, religious institutes fit well in the ACC. I originally had TCU pegged for the ACC and I said 50/50 chance between the PAC and the ACC. I just don't see enough in that scenario to get the PAC on board. I think slipping TCU out there and that DFW market, that should help.

Yes I am absolutely saying Texas and ND with partial deals with the ACC. I originally thought Texas would take the six game deal in order to have two protected games with the two Texas schools going with them. If it ends up being WVU though then I don't think Texas would care to do that. Will the ACC agree to a 5 game deal with Texas and still give them a protected match up every year against Baylor? That would leave Texas seven games a year to schedule oocly. That means Oklahoma, Texas Tech (in order to get them to go along with this plan), a game or two against California teams, Notre Dame, finishing with 2 or 3 other games against Texas schools.

Now you could switch up that ooc schedule anyway but I decided to illustrate how they could have so much more of everything they seem to cherish in their ooc scheduling. They want to play Notre Dame. They always play a California team. If they leave the Big 12 they will need to maintain ooc games with Texas programs. With 7 ooc games a year, that is very easy to do.

I don't know how Baylor/TCU or Baylor/WVU isn't a strong football addition. Now if the ACC ends up blocking a particular move by the SEC, then they would end up with UConn instead of WVU. I don't think they would do that in the end though.

If I'm the ACC I'd tell the SEC "You want West Virginia? They're yours to have." Even if one thinks the risk is small I don't want the chance that one of the other major conferences gets a foothold in either Virginia or North Carolina. Look at what happen in South Carolina when USC-e went to the SEC. The Gamecocks slowly but surely raised their profile in that state and now is considered to be as popular or more popular than Clemson. This is what having a heavy hitter like the Southeastern Conference can do for your school. Better to go north and solidify your presence in the Northeast and get one more basketball power, along with setting up camp in the state of Texas for football reasons. Also, Connecticut has much better academics. Basketball on the rumored-to-be network would be off the charts. Content, content, content.

Now that proposition begs the question, "Why haven't they done so already?" No matter how you cut it, basketball only accounts for about 15% of the total sports revenue pie. But, if the football profile can be raised by intentionally making it a point of emphasis throughout the ACC, such a move as taking Connecticut would solidify the claim to be the preeminent basketball conference. I think the why not reveals some real issues.

(11-22-2014 10:14 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The SEC in NC is somewhat of a red-herring issue because Charlotte, NC is the defacto joint capital of SC and NC. Through Charlotte, the SEC is seen in the Charlotte metro, Triad, and all over western NC.

What SEC football does not "penetrate" is NE NC, and Virginia east of Roanoke. However as has been mentioned, nothing the SEC can do will end the grasp that ACC basketball has on NC from December to March, nothing as many WF, Duke, UNC, and NC State fans will watch the other's games just hoping whom they hate loses.

Precisely why I think the best (available) combo for the SEC would be ECU and WVU. That combo gets a good chunk of VA and NC. Like you said, the SEC already has a sizable market share of Charlotte.

(11-22-2014 10:40 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Now, what can the SEC do with them? What can ESPN do? The largest stadium that can be expanded to at least 70k. ECU, in the SEC, would very likely become the strongest football program in the State. If you Louisville guys want to deny that, then fine, but perhaps you guys just don't wish

I suppose your comment would make more sense if you would have headed the comments above that north Carolina has 10 million people, not 30, and hat the stadium you are discussing is the third largest college stadium (fourth largest total) not the largest as you keep mentioning. It also only UofLs 50k.

Might help to get that right before being condescending or asking if someone was "afraid?"

(11-23-2014 03:00 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-22-2014 10:40 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Now, what can the SEC do with them? What can ESPN do? The largest stadium that can be expanded to at least 70k. ECU, in the SEC, would very likely become the strongest football program in the State. If you Louisville guys want to deny that, then fine, but perhaps you guys just don't wish

I suppose your comment would make more sense if you would have headed the comments above that north Carolina has 10 million people, not 30, and hat the stadium you are discussing is the third largest college stadium (fourth largest total) not the largest as you keep mentioning. It also only UofLs 50k.

Might help to get that right before being condescending or asking if someone was "afraid?"

Late to the party much? My comments about ECU make no sense because of the population of North Carolina? Talk about being way off with the logical fallacies. Nice try troll. You can do better.

ECU's stadium is at what, 50,000 to 58,000 and they have talked about plans to expand even further. They have built that stadium for expansion, numbers such as 70,000+ have been bandied about should ECU ever move up.

UNC is currently at somewhere around 62,000 with no plans to expand and they are already at that top level. They are more worried about expanding higher end luxury boxes and those limit capacity but are big money. What they aren't great for is TV.

North Carolina State is around 57,500. ECU is already equaling them from a lower league.

Duke is like 34,000....and still has a track on the inside of it right?

Wake Forest is like 31,500.

So when someone ACTUALLY analyzes the situation of these schools in the Major conference with the Major money and how they don't dwarf the minor program of ECU's stadium....somehow you think that is a "gotcha" moment for you against me? Keep tryin adcorbett, keep tryin. Perhaps you should read a little farther when you do your "research".

Oh...and it was someone else trying to call me afraid. Reading retention issues today?

(11-23-2014 03:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 03:00 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-22-2014 10:40 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Now, what can the SEC do with them? What can ESPN do? The largest stadium that can be expanded to at least 70k. ECU, in the SEC, would very likely become the strongest football program in the State. If you Louisville guys want to deny that, then fine, but perhaps you guys just don't wish

I suppose your comment would make more sense if you would have headed the comments above that north Carolina has 10 million people, not 30, and hat the stadium you are discussing is the third largest college stadium (fourth largest total) not the largest as you keep mentioning. It also only UofLs 50k.

Might help to get that right before being condescending or asking if someone was "afraid?"

Late to the party much? My comments about ECU make no sense because of the population of North Carolina? Talk about being way off with the logical fallacies. Nice try troll. You can do better.

ECU's stadium is at what, 50,000 to 58,000 and they have talked about plans to expand even further. They have built that stadium for expansion, numbers such as 70,000+ have been bandied about should ECU ever move up.

UNC is currently at somewhere around 62,000 with no plans to expand and they are already at that top level. They are more worried about expanding higher end luxury boxes and those limit capacity but are big money. What they aren't great for is TV.

North Carolina State is around 57,500. ECU is already equaling them from a lower league.

Duke is like 34,000....and still has a track on the inside of it right?

Wake Forest is like 31,500.

So when someone ACTUALLY analyzes the situation of these schools in the Major conference with the Major money and how they don't dwarf the minor program of ECU's stadium....somehow you think that is a "gotcha" moment for you against me? Keep tryin adcorbett, keep tryin. Perhaps you should read a little farther when you do your "research".

Oh...and it was someone else trying to call me afraid. Reading retention issues today?

Jesus you're a douche... You just can NOT handle when someone doesn't agree with you lock, stock, and barrel can you?

It's like I've said, the SEC may WANT the North Carolina market but they don't NEED it so bad as to take ECU. That would be tarnishing to the image of the conference if they can't get one of the bigger "named" programs in the state...and I don't think they'd leave. The only one that MIGHT would be NCState. ECU's not on the table for the SEC. Let it go. Oh, and before you try and peddle your crap you should at least get your facts straight. You wiffed badly on the population of the state and the stadiums...yet you keep trying to compound that screw up and talk down to anyone and everyone that doesn't agree with you.

(11-23-2014 03:29 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(11-23-2014 03:00 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-22-2014 10:40 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Now, what can the SEC do with them? What can ESPN do? The largest stadium that can be expanded to at least 70k. ECU, in the SEC, would very likely become the strongest football program in the State. If you Louisville guys want to deny that, then fine, but perhaps you guys just don't wish

I suppose your comment would make more sense if you would have headed the comments above that north Carolina has 10 million people, not 30, and hat the stadium you are discussing is the third largest college stadium (fourth largest total) not the largest as you keep mentioning. It also only UofLs 50k.

Might help to get that right before being condescending or asking if someone was "afraid?"

Late to the party much? My comments about ECU make no sense because of the population of North Carolina? Talk about being way off with the logical fallacies. Nice try troll. You can do better.

ECU's stadium is at what, 50,000 to 58,000 and they have talked about plans to expand even further. They have built that stadium for expansion, numbers such as 70,000+ have been bandied about should ECU ever move up.

UNC is currently at somewhere around 62,000 with no plans to expand and they are already at that top level. They are more worried about expanding higher end luxury boxes and those limit capacity but are big money. What they aren't great for is TV.

North Carolina State is around 57,500. ECU is already equaling them from a lower league.

Duke is like 34,000....and still has a track on the inside of it right?

Wake Forest is like 31,500.

So when someone ACTUALLY analyzes the situation of these schools in the Major conference with the Major money and how they don't dwarf the minor program of ECU's stadium....somehow you think that is a "gotcha" moment for you against me? Keep tryin adcorbett, keep tryin. Perhaps you should read a little farther when you do your "research".

Oh...and it was someone else trying to call me afraid. Reading retention issues today?

Oy. I didn't think you could make a dumber statement then the last one, but congrats. and yes, you specifixally based tris notion off a 30 million population, so it's worht mentioning. And did you then say that because ecu's stadium "can be" expanded it makes it bigger than the others that actually are bigger? Because that is what you are trying to infer. I wasn't late to the party: I was just the latest to call you out for such silly remakes. Hey newsflash, unless your stadium is landlocked (Cincinnati) EVERY stadium is expandable, whether designed for it or not. Meaning unc or nc state "could" expand it if hey wanted to. But he potential to expand, DOES NOT make it a bigger stadium, as four other people have pointed out.

The sad thing is I actually get what you are trying to say, such as the WV comment. But when you quote grossly inaccurate "facts," twice even, and fail to grasp basic concepts, while calling others names and saying they were clueless even while you keep repeating said inaccurate facts, and have the nerve to call out someoen pinting that out to you, in an attempt to be the loudest one in the room, to prove you know what you are talking about, you fall flat on your face, as you just did. And that's why they were calling you out.

Yes, the population comment of mine was wrong. I am not sure which state I got it mixed up with in my head but big deal. That one comment doesn't change anything about the veracity of my other comments. It is just you TRYING to make that out to be true.

ECU is in lesser leagues making less money yet filling an equivalent stadium and speaking PUBLICALLY about expanding further beyond 58k. UNC and NC State already belong to a Major conference and make major money yet neither one of them see's themselves having enough interest in the football program to expand their stands. Just one more little detail you overlooked in your poorly planned personal attacks on me. How about you stop using the same tactics that you say I supposedly use when you are attacking me for using said tactics hmm? That is called hypocrisy.

If you are going to make a comment about intelligence and usage of grammar. Do please learn that it is grammatically incorrect to use the word "dumber". Try "more dumb" or "increasingly dumb" or "further into the dimension of dumb" or really anything if you are actually trying to pit intelligence against intelligence. Otherwise...you really just look like you actually went to school at Louisville.

You are like my own personal troll. It is so cute. Now....go back to your home under the bridge.


Oh..and I didn't "try" to say something about WVU. I said it, in plain as day language. Either someone understands the legality of why WVU was a perfect go between for the Big 12 and schools not in the Big 12 or they don't. Most of these clowns don't get it, you do and yet you still tried to portray it negatively. That is why it is so amusing to see these attempts of yours to admonish me. You popped up to troll me, like you love to do and your language usage is proof of that.

Enough! No more insults upon persons' intellect. No more "douche", no more ad hominems of any kind or you'll get dinged 25% the same as for foul language. And furthermore the level will go up 25% per offense until a total ban is in order.

If you want to insult take it to the verbal abuse board and have at it.

This post is for everyone who chooses to hurl abuse.

Have a nice day!

(11-23-2014 04:12 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  It's like I've said, the SEC may WANT the North Carolina market but they don't NEED it so bad as to take ECU. That would be tarnishing to the image of the conference if they can't get one of the bigger "named" programs in the state...and I don't think they'd leave. The only one that MIGHT would be NCState. ECU's not on the table for the SEC. Let it go. Oh, and before you try and peddle your crap you should at least get your facts straight. You wiffed badly on the population of the state and the stadiums...yet you keep trying to compound that screw up and talk down to anyone and everyone that doesn't agree with you.

Yes the population quote was way off. Only one State can claim to have 30 million people. Once again, so what. No, I didn't whiff badly on the Stadium numbers and I just explained it all. For you to try to claim that is a "bad whiff" just goes to show you have such an agenda against me that you are willing to make false statements in order to try and sell that agenda to the rest of the mouth breathers here.

As I said to others, I am not talking down to anyone. If you feel you are being talked down to then that is your own self image that is the problem That is not my problem.

I wasn't "peddling crap". I was having a simple discussion. You felt the need to pop up with your ultra aggressive short post to try and put a stop to it. You continue to show just how poor of a poster you are around here. But hey...at least Wilkie thinks you are great!

You really just don't know when to shut the hell up and stop calling people out and trying to act cool, do you? There is no possible way you can go back and read your comments and NOT think you're talking down to someone unless you're a complete moron...which astonishingly, I don't think you are. I think you're just trying to cover your own butt.