(11-20-2014 03:08 PM)ZachMan Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 02:20 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 02:15 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 02:07 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  With no NCAA investigation looming, the apparent willingness to pay just about anyone 2 million per year and a loaded roster, we'd be able to get a pretty good coach in here. Bet money.

Agreed...

Also I agree with the statement that I have no problem with how many games he has won and lost...Heck I would be OK if we lost more games if it seemed like we were playing basketball with a purpose. Since Pastner has been here we have been a frustrating team to watch (win or lose)

I hate to be this guy (the one that talks about what he subjectively feels rather than what the stats and numbers say) but the manner in which we lose games right now is the main gripe for everyone.

Think about last year's losses, and replace the blowout, run-away games against Okie State, UConn, SMU and Viriginia with games that came down to the final 5 minutes or so. Do the same with WSU last week.

I think our fanbase would be pretty happy with where we were, even with the same W/L record and progress in March. Simply because the team is out there competing night in and night out. The staff would appear to have a handle on things.

I agree, I was fine after our game in NYC against Florida because that night I thought we could play with anyone. Everyone gets beat and if you play enough top teams you will lose your share. But know it seems like we have a program that it shocks people to actually win and most see the blow outs coming a mile away. We just do not have any identity, he just reacts to the latest situation.

Yup. Statisctically (based on Pomeroy's metric) between the Okie State 2 game and the Florida game was the best our team played all year.

we played Florida on December 17, 2013. Our ranking then was between 11 and 15 at that time. We started the season ranked 19th. We ended the season ranked 36th and we slipped as low as 45th after our loss to Houston.

If we played at the level we did against Florida the entire season, things would've been different.

Reactionary is a very apt term for his coaching style.

Get blown out at Okie State? Scrap the press, tighten the rotation.

Get beaten by CBU? We need to play faster.

Get beaten by WSU? We need to play slower.

The constant substitutions, trying to prevent something that's already happened. Usually reacting, hardly ever forcing a reaction from the other side.

I really don't believe Memphis fans have unrealistic expectations. We also know quality basketball when we see it....or in the current case, when we don't.

I have no idea what will happen with Josh at the end of the season, but for anyone to say that we won't be able to attract a high quality candidate is simply wrong. There is zero comparison to the situation now to the one 6 years ago. No one wanted to follow Cal...lots of coaches will have no concerns following Josh. Those are the facts as harsh as they may be for some here to accept.

(11-20-2014 02:15 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  Also I agree with the statement that I have no problem with how many games he has won and lost...Heck I would be OK if we lost more games if it seemed like we were playing basketball with a purpose. Since Pastner has been here we have been a frustrating team to watch (win or lose)

I don't agree with you about the win-loss thing, but one thing that is frustrating to me about Josh as a coach is his relentlessly bubbly optimism.

That may be a good thing in most walks of life but as a bball coach, I'm not sure.

When the team is doing poorly I would like to see some flashes of anger, some toughness, and not so much fist pumping. He needs to identify with fan disappointment more, be honest, and tell us that things are rough, and he's not going to tolerate it.

It's just P.R. I know, and probably has little to do with on-court performance, but I think he would buy a lot more credibility with the fans.

(11-20-2014 02:12 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 10:33 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Some people will hold to that line of thinking because it makes them feel better.

It all started with RC guaranteeing he would make a "home run" hire. He frequently noted he carried a "list" of coaches on the ready.

If Memphis truly did throw a bone to Pitino, then that was the only big person they went after. The problem is RC really had no clue who he wanted after that. The fact that Tim Floyd was even a consideration shows how messed up the search was.

Like most any other search, what the fanbase "wants" and what is really available are two different things. RC was seemingly caught up in the pressure an ended up looking the the principal in "Summer School" desperately running from car to car until he stumbled upon Shoop.

We at least approached all of the names below, so not true...

Rick Pitino
Avery Johnson
Mike Anderson
Sean Miller
Lon Kruger

They probably knew who they'd be working for (Shirley Raines and RC Johnson)
The management at Memphis has been redone in a few short years.
They might be more willing to listen to us now...if we were to go after another coach for some reason.

It's not that hard a job. 4 different coaches have been to at least an elite 8. NBA arena, great facilities, great recruiting base, a top 10 salary and 18,000 fans when things are good.

(11-20-2014 08:08 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  It's not that hard a job. 4 different coaches have been to at least an elite 8. NBA arena, great facilities, great recruiting base, a top 10 salary and 18,000 fans when things are good.

Memphis NCAA Tournament Appearances
By Decade
50's - 2
60's - 1
70's - 2
80's - 7 (5 vacated)
90's - 4
00's - 6 (1 vacated)
Pastner - 4

Most Consecutive NCAA Appearances
5: 1982-86 (all vacated)
4: 2006-09 (1 vacated)
4: Pastner

(11-20-2014 08:08 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  It's not that hard a job. 4 different coaches have been to at least an elite 8. NBA arena, great facilities, great recruiting base, a top 10 salary and 18,000 fans when things are good.

100% correct! So true. Keep preaching!

(11-20-2014 02:12 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 10:33 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Some people will hold to that line of thinking because it makes them feel better.

It all started with RC guaranteeing he would make a "home run" hire. He frequently noted he carried a "list" of coaches on the ready.

If Memphis truly did throw a bone to Pitino, then that was the only big person they went after. The problem is RC really had no clue who he wanted after that. The fact that Tim Floyd was even a consideration shows how messed up the search was.

Like most any other search, what the fanbase "wants" and what is really available are two different things. RC was seemingly caught up in the pressure an ended up looking the the principal in "Summer School" desperately running from car to car until he stumbled upon Shoop.

We at least approached all of the names below, so not true...

Rick Pitino
Avery Johnson
Mike Anderson
Sean Miller
Lon Kruger

Everyone knew the NCAA problem and already knew the Cupboard was bare with X stealing the class. There was just enough talent left to field a competitive team but not to really challenge for the big prize. At there time there was no guarantee that we would be getting any more good players.

(11-20-2014 08:08 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  It's not that hard a job. 4 different coaches have been to at least an elite 8. NBA arena, great facilities, great recruiting base, a top 10 salary and 18,000 fans when things are good.

It was a no win job. Win and you are supposed to do so with all the positives behind the program. If you do not then you have damaged a historically pretty good program. You would not get much credit for winning and get hell for losing.

(11-20-2014 03:30 PM)cotton1991 Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 02:15 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  Also I agree with the statement that I have no problem with how many games he has won and lost...Heck I would be OK if we lost more games if it seemed like we were playing basketball with a purpose. Since Pastner has been here we have been a frustrating team to watch (win or lose)

I don't agree with you about the win-loss thing, but one thing that is frustrating to me about Josh as a coach is his relentlessly bubbly optimism.

That may be a good thing in most walks of life but as a bball coach, I'm not sure.

When the team is doing poorly I would like to see some flashes of anger, some toughness, and not so much fist pumping. He needs to identify with fan disappointment more, be honest, and tell us that things are rough, and he's not going to tolerate it.

It's just P.R. I know, and probably has little to do with on-court performance, but I think he would buy a lot more credibility with the fans.

The thing that kind of pisses me off is that he is so positive and talks so much about positive energy and positive reinforcement...

But he tears the kids down in the games by pulling them as soon as they don't perform. If you are supremely positive you pull the kid aside and tell him I know you can make that shot, you make it at practice, keep shooting the ball. But nope he pulls em, and by pulling them essentially says I don't have confidence in your abilities.

(11-20-2014 03:23 PM)TigersRuleAll Wrote:  I really don't believe Memphis fans have unrealistic expectations. We also know quality basketball when we see it....or in the current case, when we don't.

I have no idea what will happen with Josh at the end of the season, but for anyone to say that we won't be able to attract a high quality candidate is simply wrong. There is zero comparison to the situation now to the one 6 years ago. No one wanted to follow Cal...lots of coaches will have no concerns following Josh. Those are the facts as harsh as they may be for some here to accept.

We can hire a great coach. You are right. The idea that we can't hire a great coach or that they don't wat to come here is total bull crap. I say to people who think we can't hire a great coach...you are the hater.

Regarding the OP comments. I don't disagree with your points per se but would add that were not in a very good conference either. I think this fact was also a major factor.

In many respects josh has done a very good job 'managing' the program but in other areas I think he has been very average. Combine those areas then you decide if he has done a good job or not.

(11-20-2014 02:20 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 02:15 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 02:07 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  With no NCAA investigation looming, the apparent willingness to pay just about anyone 2 million per year and a loaded roster, we'd be able to get a pretty good coach in here. Bet money.

Agreed...

Also I agree with the statement that I have no problem with how many games he has won and lost...Heck I would be OK if we lost more games if it seemed like we were playing basketball with a purpose. Since Pastner has been here we have been a frustrating team to watch (win or lose)

I hate to be this guy (the one that talks about what he subjectively feels rather than what the stats and numbers say) but the manner in which we lose games right now is the main gripe for everyone.

Think about last year's losses, and replace the blowout, run-away games against Okie State, UConn, SMU and Viriginia with games that came down to the final 5 minutes or so. Do the same with WSU last week.

I think our fanbase would be pretty happy with where we were, even with the same W/L record and progress in March. Simply because the team is out there competing night in and night out. The staff would appear to have a handle on things.

Agree. It's not the record, and I would honestly be ok with the NCAA tourney results if we weren't getting clownstomped every time we play a decent team there.

We look totally, totally outclassed. Even when we had down years (excepting the Tic Price era) I always felt we had a chance against anyone, especially at home. I do not feel that way now. Any time we play a really good team I feel a sense of impending doom. How the hell did we lose to Virginia so badly? It still makes no sense to me. Our team doesn't have an offensive or defensive philopsophy that leads to success

(11-20-2014 11:14 PM)murphster Wrote:  Regarding the OP comments. I don't disagree with your points per se but would add that were not in a very good conference either. I think this fact was also a major factor.

In many respects josh has done a very good job 'managing' the program but in other areas I think he has been very average. Combine those areas then you decide if he has done a good job or not.

The crappy conference was a hindrance. Almost no games at home against ranked opponents, no margin for error against weak opponents, and no credit for beating above average opponents.

If Pastner had last year's schedule every year, the team would have won more games against ranked opponents and would have been better prepared for the tourney.

(11-20-2014 11:57 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 02:20 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 02:15 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 02:07 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  With no NCAA investigation looming, the apparent willingness to pay just about anyone 2 million per year and a loaded roster, we'd be able to get a pretty good coach in here. Bet money.

Agreed...

Also I agree with the statement that I have no problem with how many games he has won and lost...Heck I would be OK if we lost more games if it seemed like we were playing basketball with a purpose. Since Pastner has been here we have been a frustrating team to watch (win or lose)

I hate to be this guy (the one that talks about what he subjectively feels rather than what the stats and numbers say) but the manner in which we lose games right now is the main gripe for everyone.

Think about last year's losses, and replace the blowout, run-away games against Okie State, UConn, SMU and Viriginia with games that came down to the final 5 minutes or so. Do the same with WSU last week.

I think our fanbase would be pretty happy with where we were, even with the same W/L record and progress in March. Simply because the team is out there competing night in and night out. The staff would appear to have a handle on things.

Agree. It's not the record, and I would honestly be ok with the NCAA tourney results if we weren't getting clownstomped every time we play a decent team there.

We look totally, totally outclassed. Even when we had down years (excepting the Tic Price era) I always felt we had a chance against anyone, especially at home. I do not feel that way now. Any time we play a really good team I feel a sense of impending doom. How the hell did we lose to Virginia so badly? It still makes no sense to me. Our team doesn't have an offensive or defensive philopsophy that leads to success

Impending doom is your problem. The team beat 5 ranked opponents and was competitive against Florida and at UConn. Maybe you should try having a more positive outlook.

(11-21-2014 01:36 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 11:57 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 02:20 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 02:15 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 02:07 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  With no NCAA investigation looming, the apparent willingness to pay just about anyone 2 million per year and a loaded roster, we'd be able to get a pretty good coach in here. Bet money.

Agreed...

Also I agree with the statement that I have no problem with how many games he has won and lost...Heck I would be OK if we lost more games if it seemed like we were playing basketball with a purpose. Since Pastner has been here we have been a frustrating team to watch (win or lose)

I hate to be this guy (the one that talks about what he subjectively feels rather than what the stats and numbers say) but the manner in which we lose games right now is the main gripe for everyone.

Think about last year's losses, and replace the blowout, run-away games against Okie State, UConn, SMU and Viriginia with games that came down to the final 5 minutes or so. Do the same with WSU last week.

I think our fanbase would be pretty happy with where we were, even with the same W/L record and progress in March. Simply because the team is out there competing night in and night out. The staff would appear to have a handle on things.

Agree. It's not the record, and I would honestly be ok with the NCAA tourney results if we weren't getting clownstomped every time we play a decent team there.

We look totally, totally outclassed. Even when we had down years (excepting the Tic Price era) I always felt we had a chance against anyone, especially at home. I do not feel that way now. Any time we play a really good team I feel a sense of impending doom. How the hell did we lose to Virginia so badly? It still makes no sense to me. Our team doesn't have an offensive or defensive philopsophy that leads to success

Impending doom is your problem. The team beat 5 ranked opponents and was competitive against Florida and at UConn. Maybe you should try having a more positive outlook.

If we are going to be technical he only beat 4 ranked teams. also, 3 of those 4 ranked teams finished the season unranked just like us.

(11-20-2014 11:14 PM)murphster Wrote:  Regarding the OP comments. I don't disagree with your points per se but would add that were not in a very good conference either. I think this fact was also a major factor.

We've never been in that great of a conference.

Honestly I loved the old metro but people romanticize what kind of conference it was. There were a few good teams and several below average teams.

CUSA before the split was actually the strongest conference top to bottom we've been in. And even it was the 5th or 6th best in the country.

Last years conference was the single toughest single season we've ever had at the top. We've never had 5 teams at that were that good. One a defending champion and the other the eventual champion. Plus Larry Brown, plus Cincy's best team since Huggins days.

(11-21-2014 04:23 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 11:14 PM)murphster Wrote:  Regarding the OP comments. I don't disagree with your points per se but would add that were not in a very good conference either. I think this fact was also a major factor.

We've never been in that great of a conference.

Honestly I loved the old metro but people romanticize what kind of conference it was. There were a few good teams and several below average teams.

CUSA before the split was actually the strongest conference top to bottom we've been in. And even it was the 5th or 6th best in the country.

Last years conference was the single toughest single season we've ever had at the top. We've never had 5 teams at that were that good. One a defending champion and the other the eventual champion. Plus Larry Brown, plus Cincy's best team since Huggins days.

I'm old enough to remember the Metro...I was a teenager then..and I saw a lot of games from the Metro era....
On any given night...we had what we considered awful teams rise up and play lights out basketball.
Case in point Virginia Tech beating us when we became ranked #1 in the country.....for a few hours anyway.
Virginia Tech was led by one Dell Curry...a name known to many basketball fans here I am sure.
Basketball recruiting was more simple then. I dunno if we had the star ratings like 3* or 4* recruiting labels then.
Life seemed to be more balanced then.

Prairie View is in TROUBLE!