We need negatory inaction legislation.

(11-19-2014 07:40 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 07:16 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  Nomad, I don't disagree that folks often are the victims of stereotyped perceptions of groups that do not apply equally to individuals in that group. However, admission policies are mostly based upon standardized and relatively objective measures. Now if your argument was the "fairness" of standardized tests, I might agree more; but when one kid has a 1400 SAT and another has a 1300 SAT (all else being equal), it is unfairly biased to choose the kid with the lower SAT score just because of some protected societal demographic. And I would assert such preference is in large part why you may have experienced the stereotyped perceptions in the workplace. If equality is the goal, then equality should be the standard in getting there..........

There isn't equality though; not from birth. A 1400 and a 1300 aren't close the entire story and don't automatically say "more qualified" to me. What if the guy who got the 1400 was a white/Asian kid, who came from an upper-middle class family, who forced him to take prep courses, bought the books, gave them everything they needed. The 1300 was a black kid who came from nothing and had to make that score on his own. Which is more qualified?

But neither of these students are competing to get an education. What they are trying to get is the credential from having graduated from a reputable university. Let's say they were both studying to be Engineers, is there any demonstrative difference in the course requirements at UA-Huntsville and Vanderbilt? Of course not, but even is both passed the FE Exam upon graduation, the presumption would still be that the Vandy grad is somehow better. That assumption, along with larger networking pool and greater portability of the degree, are why this issue is so contentious.

(11-19-2014 06:15 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Not stating a position here, but could we trust people to do that? I'll admit that my trust in does not extend very far.

I read your other comments before I responded to this one. Let me first say that I do agree with you, there's no guaranteed chance that it wouldn't be out there somewhere, and I fully agree that somewhere, there will definitely be people complaining that someone else got the job or got accepted over them because of their color, whether it be white, black, or other.

The only way to get around this is to look at resumes first, decide whose is best, and then interview and hire them.

We had two girls that used to do all the interviewing at the company I work for. One was white (only dates black) and one is from Guatemala. For almost two years, our turnover ratio was horrendous and we couldn't keep anybody over 6 months because they were rude to customers, they got in fights with each other in the parking lot, and they were always late. After doing a little bit of digging, they were just hiring black girls that they liked. Their interviews consisted of what clubs these girls liked and what they liked to do on the weekends. Time and again, I'd see professional looking girls come in, and everytime, they'd be passed up after the interview. The girls were both black and white.

We relieved these two of their positions and moved them to other parts of the company and put two other girls in charge. One black, one white, both acted professional. They went over resumes while they interviewed. It got a lot better, but lately there has been a clique formed up there and if you're not black, they subliminally pick on you and eventually push you into quitting. However, we haven't had to hire in over 10 months. All because they started hiring by qualification and not by who they preferred.

Like I said, it never works out when you fight discrimination by discriminating. Someone always loses and its unfair to whomever that may be.

UNCCH has a program that everyone is aware of that admits minority students that do not meet the UNCCH admission standards.. In fact...they give them fully schollys. Personally? I could care less what UNCCH does in this regard. The scholarships are privately funded. I am the first to heap hatred at UNCCH..but..this does not bother me.

(11-21-2014 10:52 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  UNCCH has a program that everyone is aware of that admits minority students that do not meet the UNCCH admission standards.. In fact...they give them fully schollys. Personally? I could care less what UNCCH does in this regard. The scholarships are privately funded. I am the first to heap hatred at UNCCH..but..this does not bother me.

They put them all in AFAM classes?

(11-18-2014 12:39 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Didn't California get rid of AA? Aren't all of the universities majority Asian now?

If Asians qualify better and can pay, why shouldn't they be able to attend?

Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk

(11-19-2014 07:40 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 07:16 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  Nomad, I don't disagree that folks often are the victims of stereotyped perceptions of groups that do not apply equally to individuals in that group. However, admission policies are mostly based upon standardized and relatively objective measures. Now if your argument was the "fairness" of standardized tests, I might agree more; but when one kid has a 1400 SAT and another has a 1300 SAT (all else being equal), it is unfairly biased to choose the kid with the lower SAT score just because of some protected societal demographic. And I would assert such preference is in large part why you may have experienced the stereotyped perceptions in the workplace. If equality is the goal, then equality should be the standard in getting there..........

There isn't equality though; not from birth. A 1400 and a 1300 aren't close the entire story and don't automatically say "more qualified" to me. What if the guy who got the 1400 was a white/Asian kid, who came from an upper-middle class family, who forced him to take prep courses, bought the books, gave them everything they needed. The 1300 was a black kid who came from nothing and had to make that score on his own. Which is more qualified?

You do have a point here. But remember, not all black kids "come from nothing". Maybe some income based scholarships or admission scoring preferences would be acceptable and would disproportionately benefit black kids, but not race alone. Billy Bob from the trailer park with an alcoholic absent dad and a meth head mom isn't getting special tutoring either. We had a black girl get into and attend Harvard in my class. She was smart, probably UVA material, but not in the upper echelon and her dad is president of a university and mom is a surgeon.

Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk

(11-22-2014 08:39 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-21-2014 10:52 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  UNCCH has a program that everyone is aware of that admits minority students that do not meet the UNCCH admission standards.. In fact...they give them fully schollys. Personally? I could care less what UNCCH does in this regard. The scholarships are privately funded. I am the first to heap hatred at UNCCH..but..this does not bother me.

They put them all in AFAM classes?

Lots of tutoring to get them up to speed I understand. They have a decent track record of getting these students to graduation. You could be right that in the past those classes were a part of this. I can't comment.