Some of you guys have probably seen this map that was posted last month by the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/...n-map.html

You can scroll over every zip code in the country on the map, and it will show you the 3 most popular FBS teams by Facebook likes and their corresponding percentages.

Now, it says at the top of the page: "With data based on Facebook ‘likes’, we estimated the boundaries of fandom for 84 teams." There are 128 FBS teams. What does this mean? They did not collect data for 44 teams, which is more than one third. I'm not sure what the reason is for this. One reason might be that not every athletic department has a separate page for its football team -- such is the case for my team, Cincinnati.

The New York Times clearly did not collect data for Cincinnati, as UC does not even appear in its own zip code (45220). However, I am afraid folks are going to look at this map and assume it means UC is not even the 3rd-most popular team on its own campus. That is 100% false. UC is roughly even with OSU in Cincinnati, with Kentucky and Notre Dame also having sizable fan bases here.

If any fans of other teams notice their team missing, let me know. I wrote the NYT when the article came out, but they did not respond. I am going to send another email soon requesting that they disclose the 44 teams who were not counted in the article, and would like to include some of the schools who are clearly among those. Putting this map out without disclosing the schools not included is irresponsible of the New York Times and is damaging to the reputations of those programs, especially in this era of conference realignment.

There are more than 84 schools on the map, but you have to go to the 2nd or 3rd team in individual zip codes to find some of them. I believe 84 is the number of schools that are first in at least one zip code, not the total number of teams analyzed. But you're right there are several schools that are completely missing. These are schools that I could not find anywhere:

Cincinnati
USF
Miami (OH)
NMSU
FIU
FAU
Rice
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Georgia State
Middle Tennessee
Western Kentucky
ODU

The four first are surprising and I have to assume the data is bad or missing for those schools. The rest are in regions dominated by multiple larger or more established programs and it's plausible that those fanbases are not significant enough to register. Also, depending on when the data was collected, a few of those might not have even been FBS at the time.

(11-14-2014 03:59 PM)prp Wrote:  There are more than 84 schools on the map, but you have to go to the 2nd or 3rd team in individual zip codes to find some of them. I believe 84 is the number of schools that are first in at least one zip code, not the total number of teams analyzed. But you're right there are several schools that are completely missing. These are schools that I could not find anywhere:

Cincinnati
USF
Miami (OH)
NMSU
FIU
FAU
Rice
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Georgia State
Middle Tennessee
Western Kentucky
ODU

The four first are surprising and I have to assume the data is bad or missing for those schools. The rest are in regions dominated by multiple larger or more established programs and it's plausible that those fanbases are not significant enough to register. Also, depending on when the data was collected, a few of those might not have even been FBS at the time.

Thank you for putting that together. Yeah, when Cincinnati supposedly isn't even in the top 3 in Clifton and the same for New Mexico State in Las Cruces, you know something is wrong.

This is yet another example of why Cincinatti has been left behind. Stadium expansion, basketball arena, revenue, Olympic sports profile ranked in the 200s last years ... but they don't even have a FB page??

This is just unacceptable, and it's almost too late for them to do it now, because all other folks/Maybe 'Admins' of other schools will know is that this map shows no one in Cincy cares about the bearcats. If they happened to see any of the football games in the Bengals stadium this year they will only remember practically no one there.

These may not be accurate reflections of the AD @ U. of Cincy, but these are the things that will stick in people's minds that MAY matter... and getting on this stuff now is not only a day late (more like thousands of days), but millions of dollars short...

The University of Cincinnati Bearcats have a Facebook page.

In the case of UC, though, it's pretty obvious that UC just isn't there.
Pikcing a ZIP at random out of Cincinnatti, 45230, with the idea of whether and how much it's Buckeye Country vs Bearcats territory.
1. 44% OSU, not surprising.
2. 12% Kentucky Wildcats. UK #2 and Cinci under 12%, that IS surprising.
3. 5% Michigan Wolverines--there's something wrong with the data.

NOTE: I'm not saying that 44% OSU is accurate, just that a casual observer wouldn't be surprised if it were.

IIRC, they did adjust the data for some programs, I think Cal and UNC, possibly because they also run their facebook pages through the athletic departments.

In greater Cincy, after the Reds and Bengals it is,
UC
UK

then OSU

(11-15-2014 08:51 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  In greater Cincy, after the Reds and Bengals it is,
UC
UK

then OSU

First relevant thing I found on google indicates that what you're saying isn't even true on UC's campus, never mind the Greater Cincinnati area. (I think it's an opinion piece for the UC student newspaper.)
http://www.newsrecord.org/sports/pick-on...0f31a.html

I'm willing to believe that Cincinnati maybe a 50/50 Buckeye/Bearcat split. But telling me that OSU doesn't have a presence in Cincinnati, or that OSU is way behind UC an UK is no more credible to me than Michigan being more popular than UC in Cincinnati.

For an opposite opinion, http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/...state.html

(11-15-2014 06:48 AM)MPez Wrote:  The University of Cincinnati Bearcats have a Facebook page.

But Bearcats football doesn't, and most of the data was from schools' football team Facebook pages (not sure my apostrophe there is in the right spot).

UNC and I think Cal have the same setup, and had to have their data adjusted. I don't know if UC's AD didn't squawk as much as UNC and Cal, or if the authors realized and patched the Cal and UNC mistakes, or if reader comments quickly alerted them to Cal and UNC.

EDIT: Why am I posting half the comments in this thread? I like maps.

Cincinnati clearly wasn't there. After clicking it I was surprised/hopeful that Ohio State had the most likes in the era, but scrolling it's pretty clear. Go up in the northwest and you'll see Toledo has a lot of likes even if they didn't get the most anywhere and Cincinnati has more pull down there.

(11-15-2014 10:05 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-15-2014 06:48 AM)MPez Wrote:  The University of Cincinnati Bearcats have a Facebook page.

But Bearcats football doesn't, and most of the data was from schools' football team Facebook pages (not sure my apostrophe there is in the right spot).

UNC and I think Cal have the same setup, and had to have their data adjusted. I don't know if UC's AD didn't squawk as much as UNC and Cal, or if the authors realized and patched the Cal and UNC mistakes, or if reader comments quickly alerted them to Cal and UNC.

EDIT: Why am I posting half the comments in this thread? I like maps.

Why should there be a separate facebook page for football? I like the school - all of it - so I "liked" the school. End of story.

I also like the football team, the basketball team, the band, the campus, the rec center, the baseball team, several of my professors, our national title trophies, and the private bathroom in the basement of the management building. But I didn't bother to "like" any of those things.

UC athletics' home page has 200k "likes." Ohio State football has 569k "likes." Ohio State athletics has 1.944 million "likes." Pick some ratio to convert our numbers that brings them somewhere between 200/1944 and 200/569 and see how the geography turns out before singling us out in a national news article. (if you read the article, they specifically mentioned that UC didn't carry any zip codes).

I like maps too, which is why this one infuriates me.

1. UC does in fact have a facebook page

2. UC was at a tremendous disadvantage considering that they have to deal with being little brother to OSU while being in a geographic area with close proximity to Kentucky & IU's territory that would likely further take up 10%-20% of the CFB fan loyalties.

Based on what I have read it appears that UC was a rare case of just barely missing out on the winning a single zip code threshold.

(11-15-2014 10:42 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-15-2014 10:05 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-15-2014 06:48 AM)MPez Wrote:  The University of Cincinnati Bearcats have a Facebook page.

But Bearcats football doesn't, and most of the data was from schools' football team Facebook pages (not sure my apostrophe there is in the right spot).

UNC and I think Cal have the same setup, and had to have their data adjusted. I don't know if UC's AD didn't squawk as much as UNC and Cal, or if the authors realized and patched the Cal and UNC mistakes, or if reader comments quickly alerted them to Cal and UNC.

EDIT: Why am I posting half the comments in this thread? I like maps.

Why should there be a separate facebook page for football? I like the school - all of it - so I "liked" the school. End of story.

I also like the football team, the basketball team, the band, the campus, the rec center, the baseball team, several of my professors, our national title trophies, and the private bathroom in the basement of the management building. But I didn't bother to "like" any of those things.

UC athletics' home page has 200k "likes." Ohio State football has 569k "likes." Ohio State athletics has 1.944 million "likes." Pick some ratio to convert our numbers that brings them somewhere between 200/1944 and 200/569 and see how the geography turns out before singling us out in a national news article.

I have no argument with what you're saying. They did it for UNC and Cal. They didn't for UC. I don't know why. I suggested a few reasons above.

Quote:(if you read the article, they specifically mentioned that UC didn't carry any zip codes).

That was unfair--I don't think they'd looked at their own data closely yet (especially who was #2 and #3), and lumped UC in with the MAC schools who don't reach #1 in their ZIP codes, not realizing that UC just wasn't there at all. (To be complete, however, it's also lumping UC in with conference-mates like Temple, Tulane, SMU, Houston and Tulsa, who are in the data set but don't control any ZIP codes.)

And everything said here applies just as much to USF, except that it's possible that USF _is_ behind UF, FSU and UM in all zip codes, but it's pretty unlikely.

(11-15-2014 10:55 AM)john01992 Wrote:  1. UC does in fact have a facebook page

2. UC was at a tremendous disadvantage considering that they have to deal with being little brother to OSU while being in a geographic area with close proximity to Kentucky & IU's territory that would likely further take up 10%-20% of the CFB fan loyalties.

Based on what I have read it appears that UC was a rare case of just barely missing out on the winning a single zip code threshold.

No, if you go to the map and zoom in, each zip code lists the top 3 teams and their percentages. The zip codes in Cincinnati show Ohio State #1 in the 20's and 30s, followed by Kentucky at 5-10%, followed by Michigan at 3 or 4%. UC just is not there.

UC vs OSU in Cincinnati is one of the details this map would've been good for. I'd believe that UC is No. 1 in the Cincy area with OSU as a strong No. 2. I'd buy that OSU is No. 1 with UC a distant second. I'd buy that it's an even split. I don't know. But without actual data, I'm not putting much stock in anyone's anecdotal accounts.

(11-15-2014 09:32 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-15-2014 08:51 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  In greater Cincy, after the Reds and Bengals it is,
UC
UK

then OSU

First relevant thing I found on google indicates that what you're saying isn't even true on UC's campus, never mind the Greater Cincinnati area. (I think it's an opinion piece for the UC student newspaper.)
http://www.newsrecord.org/sports/pick-on...0f31a.html

I'm willing to believe that Cincinnati maybe a 50/50 Buckeye/Bearcat split. But telling me that OSU doesn't have a presence in Cincinnati, or that OSU is way behind UC an UK is no more credible to me than Michigan being more popular than UC in Cincinnati.

For an opposite opinion, http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/...state.html

John, with the exception of having a cup of coffee my first year of college at Purdue...then transferring back home to UC, been here my whole life. 20 years ago there was a higher % of people living in Greater Cincy that would self identify as OSU fan. Over the past 10 years this has changed very much. Especially as it relates to the younger Alumni. Even the older Alum's interest has been recaptured.

None of the local media covers OSU, they do cover Reds/Bengals/UC/UK/Xavier. UK buys airtime on 1530, here in cincy, to broadcast Cal's weekly show and same for their actual games. Their is a cluster of OSU fans in the North, West Chester, Liberty Twp, maybe part of Mason. Maybe 1/5 of the population base here is in Norther Ky, that UK fan territory.

FWIW I do not have a facebook account.

Skimming this thread, it's an interesting conversation but may be a tempest in a teapot. The New York Times isn't the bastion of journalistic excellence it once was--they've had enough problems with allegations of bias and plagiarism covering national events in recent years so their accuracy and veracity in this analysis is certainly open to our critique and questions.

The larger issue here is I don't think the Big 12 will give a flying flip about this study. The metrics for P5 expansion are abundant, well established and have been discussed ad nauseam. They are both academic and athletic.

A more valid measure of institutional presence may be the number of impressions UC generates in the Cincinnati Enquirer and at Cincinnati.com; both blowing away any other schools in this region. With more than 100,000 "local" alumni that's to be expected and make no mistake, the University dominates this large metro.

So I'm not commenting to engage in a debate or trash any other schools; many are worthy. But as for the University of Cincinnati, most all measures align favorably, hence UC is among the three or four most often cited in various media reports to be among those schools believed to be "next in" for the P5. And it doesn't hurt that they were formerly part of the "BCS 6" and demonstrated they could win Big East football championships during this past decade.

Whether folks agree or not, both Cincy and UCONN are getting mentions in part because they've been there before in the BCS and have a larger national presence than many other attractive P5 schools.

To piggyback off of what the last couple of Cincinnati posters have stated, I have attached an article from a couple years ago written by sports columnist Paul Daugherty. Daugherty writes for the Cincinnati Enquirer and some times Sports Illustrated. He detests UC (and pretty much everything else about Cincinnati) and his son is an Ohio State grad. Even he admits Cincinnati is not an OSU town.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVv3yj...SME2tecXU-

(11-15-2014 10:55 AM)john01992 Wrote:  1. UC does in fact have a facebook page

2. UC was at a tremendous disadvantage considering that they have to deal with being little brother to OSU while being in a geographic area with close proximity to Kentucky & IU's territory that would likely further take up 10%-20% of the CFB fan loyalties.

Based on what I have read it appears that UC was a rare case of just barely missing out on the winning a single zip code threshold.

This is simply not true. There was no data for Cincinnati used for this map. Anyone who has even visited the city knows that, at worst, UC fans are the plurality here.

(11-15-2014 12:08 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-15-2014 09:32 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-15-2014 08:51 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  In greater Cincy, after the Reds and Bengals it is,
UC
UK

then OSU

First relevant thing I found on google indicates that what you're saying isn't even true on UC's campus, never mind the Greater Cincinnati area. (I think it's an opinion piece for the UC student newspaper.)
http://www.newsrecord.org/sports/pick-on...0f31a.html

I'm willing to believe that Cincinnati maybe a 50/50 Buckeye/Bearcat split. But telling me that OSU doesn't have a presence in Cincinnati, or that OSU is way behind UC an UK is no more credible to me than Michigan being more popular than UC in Cincinnati.

For an opposite opinion, http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/...state.html

John, with the exception of having a cup of coffee my first year of college at Purdue...then transferring back home to UC, been here my whole life. 20 years ago there was a higher % of people living in Greater Cincy that would self identify as OSU fan. Over the past 10 years this has changed very much. Especially as it relates to the younger Alumni. Even the older Alum's interest has been recaptured.

None of the local media covers OSU, they do cover Reds/Bengals/UC/UK/Xavier. UK buys airtime on 1530, here in cincy, to broadcast Cal's weekly show and same for their actual games. Their is a cluster of OSU fans in the North, West Chester, Liberty Twp, maybe part of Mason. Maybe 1/5 of the population base here is in Norther Ky, that UK fan territory.

FWIW I do not have a facebook account.

Well, I just dug around for information on football radio broadcasts in Cincinnati. The OSU affiliate is an AM oldies station. UC's games are on WLW-AM news, which is (or at least was on one week in August 2013) the top rated station in Cincinnati. That's evidence, in my view. OSU's affiliate wasn't listed. That's not good.

So for the nothing that it's worth, I'm a little more willing to believe that Cincinnati is Bearcats Country and less Buckeye Nation.

(11-15-2014 02:36 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-15-2014 12:08 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-15-2014 09:32 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-15-2014 08:51 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  In greater Cincy, after the Reds and Bengals it is,
UC
UK

then OSU

First relevant thing I found on google indicates that what you're saying isn't even true on UC's campus, never mind the Greater Cincinnati area. (I think it's an opinion piece for the UC student newspaper.)
http://www.newsrecord.org/sports/pick-on...0f31a.html

I'm willing to believe that Cincinnati maybe a 50/50 Buckeye/Bearcat split. But telling me that OSU doesn't have a presence in Cincinnati, or that OSU is way behind UC an UK is no more credible to me than Michigan being more popular than UC in Cincinnati.

For an opposite opinion, http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/...state.html

John, with the exception of having a cup of coffee my first year of college at Purdue...then transferring back home to UC, been here my whole life. 20 years ago there was a higher % of people living in Greater Cincy that would self identify as OSU fan. Over the past 10 years this has changed very much. Especially as it relates to the younger Alumni. Even the older Alum's interest has been recaptured.

None of the local media covers OSU, they do cover Reds/Bengals/UC/UK/Xavier. UK buys airtime on 1530, here in cincy, to broadcast Cal's weekly show and same for their actual games. Their is a cluster of OSU fans in the North, West Chester, Liberty Twp, maybe part of Mason. Maybe 1/5 of the population base here is in Norther Ky, that UK fan territory.

FWIW I do not have a facebook account.

Well, I just dug around for information on football radio broadcasts in Cincinnati. The OSU affiliate is an AM oldies station. UC's games are on WLW-AM news, which is (or at least was on one week in August 2013) the top rated station in Cincinnati. That's evidence, in my view. OSU's affiliate wasn't listed. That's not good.

So for the nothing that it's worth, I'm a little more willing to believe that Cincinnati is Bearcats Country and less Buckeye Nation.

Exactly. 700 WLW is Clear Channel's flagship AM radio station in Cincinnati, and is arguably the most popular and well known radio station in town. Cincinnati TV, radio, and newspapers barely mention OSU sports. There are a lot of OSU fans in southwest Ohio, but it is easily their weakest part of the state in terms of support.

Cincinnati is a UC town, first and foremost. Northern Kentucky has a lot of UK fans. The west side of Cincinnati has a lot of Notre Dame/Xavier fans. The northern suburbs have a decent amount of OSU fans. But UC would carry most of the zip codes, and definitely the region as a whole.