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TampaRocket Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Normally...
(11-12-2014 11:29 AM)tolfbfan Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 10:20 AM)therockets046 Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 09:21 AM)tjt1980 Wrote:  I hate how I feel about that game last night. Even knowing that with our injury situation we had no business in that game, the loss hurts so bad. We can talk all we want about how NIU should have beat us by more with all of our injuries, but let's face it, we're only trying to make ourselves feel better about it.

My thought is that we tend to sit and blame coaches and play calling and such to make ourselves feel better than we would if we'd just chalk it up to "s*** happens" or credit the other team. My heart sank the moment I tuned in and saw Julien trying to run our offense. Of course I couldn't just not watch, but I ended up watching a team with its cards stacked against them play their tails off and almost pull it off. I'm mad that they couldn't, but I'd much rather it go down that way than to watch those 3-5 win teams of the mid-2000s who couldn't pull it in the classroom, had some other problems, got dominated by other MAC opponents, and left me wondering if we'd ever field a decent team again. Those were the teams that were difficult to watch.

THANK YOU. 01-ncaabbs

You touched on a lot of good points as have others in this thread. I'm having a tough time putting my finger on why the staff is bothering me so much. Is it my lofty expectations? Or the fact that we show flashes of greatness, but never sustain that level or intensity...and I'm not taking about an entire season...we can't sustain it through an entire game. Going on a ramble here...This is our 3rd season with this staff, yet each year feels like a replay of the year before. I really felt that Campbell was the right choice when he took over. Now, I'm really having doubts that he can right the ship and make the strides that Row your boat is making at WMU. We've been cursed by the injury bug this year, but the results are much the same as when we have had a relatively healthy team. So what's the deal? How do we still put up 400+ yds on NIU with a WR playing QB? Would we have done that much better with Woodside in there? Are we hanging around and competing based on pure talent alone due to recruiting? Or are the coaches developing these guys and getting the most out of them? It seems that our team reaches a certain level, yet can't get over the hump...I feel like the players are putting in the effort and competing, but just can't get it done. I'm more than frustrated...I bleed Midbight Gold & Blue, but the past 2 years have really tested me.
11-12-2014 03:43 PM
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eastisbest Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Normally...
How can anyone get tired of bgsucking? 03-confused
11-12-2014 04:06 PM
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falconplucker Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Normally...
(11-12-2014 03:43 PM)TampaRocket Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 11:29 AM)tolfbfan Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 10:20 AM)therockets046 Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 09:21 AM)tjt1980 Wrote:  I hate how I feel about that game last night. Even knowing that with our injury situation we had no business in that game, the loss hurts so bad. We can talk all we want about how NIU should have beat us by more with all of our injuries, but let's face it, we're only trying to make ourselves feel better about it.

My thought is that we tend to sit and blame coaches and play calling and such to make ourselves feel better than we would if we'd just chalk it up to "s*** happens" or credit the other team. My heart sank the moment I tuned in and saw Julien trying to run our offense. Of course I couldn't just not watch, but I ended up watching a team with its cards stacked against them play their tails off and almost pull it off. I'm mad that they couldn't, but I'd much rather it go down that way than to watch those 3-5 win teams of the mid-2000s who couldn't pull it in the classroom, had some other problems, got dominated by other MAC opponents, and left me wondering if we'd ever field a decent team again. Those were the teams that were difficult to watch.

THANK YOU. 01-ncaabbs

You touched on a lot of good points as have others in this thread. I'm having a tough time putting my finger on why the staff is bothering me so much. Is it my lofty expectations? Or the fact that we show flashes of greatness, but never sustain that level or intensity...and I'm not taking about an entire season...we can't sustain it through an entire game. Going on a ramble here...This is our 3rd season with this staff, yet each year feels like a replay of the year before. I really felt that Campbell was the right choice when he took over. Now, I'm really having doubts that he can right the ship and make the strides that Row your boat is making at WMU. We've been cursed by the injury bug this year, but the results are much the same as when we have had a relatively healthy team. So what's the deal? How do we still put up 400+ yds on NIU with a WR playing QB? Would we have done that much better with Woodside in there? Are we hanging around and competing based on pure talent alone due to recruiting? Or are the coaches developing these guys and getting the most out of them? It seems that our team reaches a certain level, yet can't get over the hump...I feel like the players are putting in the effort and competing, but just can't get it done. I'm more than frustrated...I bleed Midbight Gold & Blue, but the past 2 years have really tested me.
IMO, the difference has been not having an effective QB. This is a league driven by qbs. When was the last time that UT had a qb who could throw the ball downfield, make quick decisions, while scanning the entire field? Imagine this offense with Gradkowski or a Brian Jones.
11-12-2014 05:07 PM
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owen Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Normally...
(11-12-2014 02:42 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Again, how soon we forget 2007.
CMU won the MAC 8-6 overall record.
Trounced by NDSU 44-13 in the OOC schedule.
BSU 7-6
WMU 5-7
UT 5-7
EMU 4-8
NIU 2-10

I don't want to see any more BS about 2014 being the worst season for the MAC. That's a load of crap.

Yeah. EMU was pretty good that season and gave WMU AND CMU AND NIU a extra loss they wouldn't usually have. And UT was just terrible that season.

I still think this season the league is worse. But I suppose its a toss up.
11-12-2014 05:22 PM
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T-Town Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Normally...
(11-12-2014 03:43 PM)TampaRocket Wrote:  You touched on a lot of good points as have others in this thread. I'm having a tough time putting my finger on why the staff is bothering me so much. Is it my lofty expectations? Or the fact that we show flashes of greatness, but never sustain that level or intensity...and I'm not taking about an entire season...we can't sustain it through an entire game. Going on a ramble here...This is our 3rd season with this staff, yet each year feels like a replay of the year before. I really felt that Campbell was the right choice when he took over. Now, I'm really having doubts that he can right the ship and make the strides that Row your boat is making at WMU. We've been cursed by the injury bug this year, but the results are much the same as when we have had a relatively healthy team. So what's the deal? How do we still put up 400+ yds on NIU with a WR playing QB? Would we have done that much better with Woodside in there? Are we hanging around and competing based on pure talent alone due to recruiting? Or are the coaches developing these guys and getting the most out of them? It seems that our team reaches a certain level, yet can't get over the hump...I feel like the players are putting in the effort and competing, but just can't get it done. I'm more than frustrated...I bleed Midbight Gold & Blue, but the past 2 years have really tested me.

Here is my 2 cents------If you view last night's game as one isolated game, then any rational person would likely conclude that it would have taken a miracle for UT to win that game on the road with a 4th string QB while also missing your 1st team MAC center who calls the blocking assignments stacked on top of all the other previous injuries. It is easy to rationalize that particular loss, although Macon did provide a bit of a miracle.

But when viewed in context of all the other big games the Rockets have found ways to lose, then, fair or not, last night game is viewed as just one more failure in a long litany of failures to achieve a victory in an "important" game----5 in a row against NIU alone---and the season becomes just one more season in a consistent pattern of seasons of wasted and undeveloped talent with unrealized potential and a failure to meet expectations (which may or may not be realistic) with the subsequent fan disappointment.

A few games that stand out in my mind just off the top of my head are: 1) The Ohio State Game---high stakes game that was one play away from taking the program to an entirely new level of respect---a win would have been like the 2000 Penn State game on steroids 2) Beckman's lack of clock management that could have put a dint in the NIU victory streak and probably netted UT a MACC 3) The Missouri game at Columbia where I was amazed to see UT had the talent to play with these SEC guys and actually had Missouri on the ropes for a short while but just could not overcome TO's 3 interceptions---BTW why was TO's sophomore season his best season as a QB? What happened to experience and player development? These are just 3 of the more significant losses that come to mind but there many other losses that can usually be laid directly at the feet of the coaching staff for virtually every aspect of coaching (play calling, game preparation, motivation of players, coaching execution, real time adjustments, etc,etc,)---EXCEPT recruiting where the staff has excelled, although P.J. Fleck, the new MAC wunderkind on the block has out recruited UT for two years now and if the WMU staff can also coach, we will have a new MAC dynasty to worry about for a few years or so until they move up the corporate coaching ladder to the BIG TIME.

Any single loss can usually be justified and glossed over-----certainly the most recent NIU loss was understandable based on injuries alone. However, when you view the collective body of work of the Beckman/Campbell era as a whole there is a history strewn with missed opportunity after missed opportunity and a lot of accompany frustrations.

Frustration over time is cumulative much like radiation exposure and once you reach the limit of your lifetime acceptable dosage, unless you are a total masochist, your defense mechanisms usually kick in and you find less stressful pursuits to "entertain" yourself with-----which is what sports should be about anyway.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2014 05:42 PM by T-Town.)
11-12-2014 05:28 PM
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RangerRocket Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Normally...,
Love your closing comments T-town. I think I'm glowing green...
11-12-2014 05:34 PM
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TampaRocket Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Normally...
(11-12-2014 05:28 PM)T-Town Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 03:43 PM)TampaRocket Wrote:  You touched on a lot of good points as have others in this thread. I'm having a tough time putting my finger on why the staff is bothering me so much. Is it my lofty expectations? Or the fact that we show flashes of greatness, but never sustain that level or intensity...and I'm not taking about an entire season...we can't sustain it through an entire game. Going on a ramble here...This is our 3rd season with this staff, yet each year feels like a replay of the year before. I really felt that Campbell was the right choice when he took over. Now, I'm really having doubts that he can right the ship and make the strides that Row your boat is making at WMU. We've been cursed by the injury bug this year, but the results are much the same as when we have had a relatively healthy team. So what's the deal? How do we still put up 400+ yds on NIU with a WR playing QB? Would we have done that much better with Woodside in there? Are we hanging around and competing based on pure talent alone due to recruiting? Or are the coaches developing these guys and getting the most out of them? It seems that our team reaches a certain level, yet can't get over the hump...I feel like the players are putting in the effort and competing, but just can't get it done. I'm more than frustrated...I bleed Midbight Gold & Blue, but the past 2 years have really tested me.

Here is my 2 cents------If you view last night's game as one isolated game, then any rational person would likely conclude that it would have taken a miracle for UT to win that game on the road with a 4th string QB while also missing your 1st team MAC center who calls the blocking assignments stacked on top of all the other previous injuries. It is easy to rationalize that particular loss, although Macon did provide a bit of a miracle.

But when viewed in context of all the other big games the Rockets have found ways to lose, then, fair or not, last night game is viewed as just one more failure in a long litany of failures to achieve a victory in an "important" game----5 in a row against NIU alone---and the season becomes just one more season in a consistent pattern of seasons of wasted and undeveloped talent with unrealized potential and a failure to meet expectations (which may or may not be realistic) with the subsequent fan disappointment.

A few games that stand out in my mind just off the top of my head are: 1) The Ohio State Game---high stakes game that was one play away from taking the program to an entirely new level of respect---a win would have been like the 2000 Penn State game on steroids 2) Beckman's lack of clock management that could have put a dint in the NIU victory streak and probably netted UT a MACC 3) The Missouri game at Columbia where I was amazed to see UT had the talent to play with these SEC guys and actually had Missouri on the ropes for a short while but just could not overcome TO's 3 interceptions---BTW why was TO's sophomore season his best season as a QB? What happened to experience and player development? These are just 3 of the more significant losses that come to mind but there many other losses that can usually be laid directly at the feet of the coaching staff for virtually every aspect of coaching (play calling, game preparation, motivation of players, coaching execution, real time adjustments, etc,etc,)---EXCEPT recruiting where the staff has excelled, although P.J. Fleck, the new MAC wunderkind on the block has out recruited UT for two years now and if the WMU staff can also coach, we will have a new MAC dynasty to worry about for a few years or so until they move up the corporate coaching ladder to the BIG TIME.

Any single loss can usually be justified and glossed over-----certainly the most recent NIU loss was understandable based on injuries alone. However, when you view the collective body of work of the Beckman/Campbell era as a whole there is a history strewn with missed opportunity after missed opportunity and a lot of accompany frustrations.

Frustration over time is cumulative much like radiation exposure and once you reach the limit of your lifetime acceptable dosage, unless you are a total masochist, your defense mechanisms usually kick in and you find less stressful pursuits to "entertain" yourself with-----which is what sports should be about anyway.

You hit the nail on the head.
11-12-2014 05:44 PM
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TampaRocket Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Normally...
Noticed I said "midnight gold & blue" in my earlier post...wow, ADHD, conference calks and trying post in this board don't mix. Maybe we should try midnight gold & blue uniforms...that would be cool. Wonder what decals we would use?
11-12-2014 05:48 PM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Normally...
Those are a part of the Eclipse series. There is a black circle on the front and a glowing midnight gold tint on the rest of the helmet. Gold pants, with our black uni's of course.
11-12-2014 07:53 PM
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FtLauderdaleRocket Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Normally...
(11-12-2014 05:28 PM)T-Town Wrote:  Frustration over time is cumulative much like radiation exposure and once you reach the limit of your lifetime acceptable dosage, unless you are a total masochist, your defense mechanisms usually kick in and you find less stressful pursuits to "entertain" yourself with-----which is what sports should be about anyway.
I've been a Pittsburgh Pirates fan my entire life. I only started paying attention to MLB for the last 3 years after ignoring the previous 20 seasons. So you are exactly correct. 03-banghead
11-12-2014 08:39 PM
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PittRocket Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Normally...
(11-12-2014 08:39 PM)FtLauderdaleRocket Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 05:28 PM)T-Town Wrote:  Frustration over time is cumulative much like radiation exposure and once you reach the limit of your lifetime acceptable dosage, unless you are a total masochist, your defense mechanisms usually kick in and you find less stressful pursuits to "entertain" yourself with-----which is what sports should be about anyway.
I've been a Pittsburgh Pirates fan my entire life. I only started paying attention to MLB for the last 3 years after ignoring the previous 20 seasons. So you are exactly correct. 03-banghead

You guys really summed up what a lot of Rocket fans are feeling. And I've been in Pittsburgh for 13 years and the Pittsburgh Pirates example is a great one. Fans get tired of being horrible (ie. 20 years of the Pirates) but they also get tired of not quite getting over the hump.
11-12-2014 09:56 PM
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rocketinchitown Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Normally...
Cant say its on the same page.

Pirates might have sucked but the Penguins and Steelers more than made up for the losses.

(11-12-2014 09:56 PM)PittRocket Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 08:39 PM)FtLauderdaleRocket Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 05:28 PM)T-Town Wrote:  Frustration over time is cumulative much like radiation exposure and once you reach the limit of your lifetime acceptable dosage, unless you are a total masochist, your defense mechanisms usually kick in and you find less stressful pursuits to "entertain" yourself with-----which is what sports should be about anyway.
I've been a Pittsburgh Pirates fan my entire life. I only started paying attention to MLB for the last 3 years after ignoring the previous 20 seasons. So you are exactly correct. 03-banghead

You guys really summed up what a lot of Rocket fans are feeling. And I've been in Pittsburgh for 13 years and the Pittsburgh Pirates example is a great one. Fans get tired of being horrible (ie. 20 years of the Pirates) but they also get tired of not quite getting over the hump.
11-12-2014 09:58 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Normally...
(11-12-2014 01:09 PM)owen Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 11:22 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  The BG game can have huge implications. If NIU loses @ WMU( A very good chance,@OU not as likely) and UT beats BG and EMU- Rockets go to the MACC.
I would enjoy going to Detroit for a MACC.

Would you like a ride? 03-wink
11-13-2014 01:05 AM
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FtLauderdaleRocket Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Normally...
(11-13-2014 01:05 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 01:09 PM)owen Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 11:22 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  The BG game can have huge implications. If NIU loses @ WMU( A very good chance,@OU not as likely) and UT beats BG and EMU- Rockets go to the MACC.
I would enjoy going to Detroit for a MACC.

Would you like a ride? 03-wink
Sure! I live in Boynton Beach, Florida. Just honk the horn when you get into my driveway. 03-wink
11-13-2014 09:27 AM
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therockets046 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Normally...
I'm a fan of the Detroit Pistons, who had a golden age in the 2000's that was as entertaining to watch as any team I've followed--even the seasons that ended in heartbreak. That ended with the 07-08 season and it took 'til last season to reach the point where I became disinterested in following ALL the games. That's six seasons before losing interest.

The difference there is all of those teams were terrible. It's head-scratching to me how the Toledo Rockets could have a stretch from 2006-2009 in which they never won more than 3 conference games, with some other problems on top of that, and fans here apparently stuck with them through that...but they will jump ship over this team? I mean, it must be just me but the only season since '09 that was wholly disappointing to me was last season. It'll take a lot more stagnation before I lose interest and a lot of regression before I lose hope.
11-13-2014 12:38 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Normally...
(11-13-2014 12:38 PM)therockets046 Wrote:  The difference there is all of those teams were terrible. It's head-scratching to me how the Toledo Rockets could have a stretch from 2006-2009 in which they never won more than 3 conference games, with some other problems on top of that, and fans here apparently stuck with them through that...but they will jump ship over this team? I mean, it must be just me but the only season since '09 that was wholly disappointing to me was last season. It'll take a lot more stagnation before I lose interest and a lot of regression before I lose hope.
Senior offensive line and two running backs in the top twenty in the nation in yards per carry (Swanson 6.69 HUNT 8.1) should bring a championship. THIS WAS THE YEAR to win the MAC.
11-13-2014 12:53 PM
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rocketinchitown Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Normally...
this was the year, AND WE STILL HAVE A CHANCE.

Don't give up the ship, yet!

Rockets need us on Weds!
11-13-2014 01:16 PM
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FrickerRon Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Normally...
(11-12-2014 10:43 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 10:20 AM)Stpetebeachrocketfan Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 09:51 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 09:21 AM)tjt1980 Wrote:  It's really hard being a fan of Toledo. The Rockets give you just enough of a taste of what they could be, but not enough to actually be something. To me, this is worse for a fan than a team that actually is nothing and has no potential. We should be winning. We routinely show flashes of what we should be. The flashes are frequent enough to keep us in big games and win insignificant games, but it always leaves us heart broken, or prevents us from enjoying a victory. It's just so damn sad.

I hate how I feel about that game last night. Even knowing that with our injury situation we had no business in that game, the loss hurts so bad. We can talk all we want about how NIU should have beat us by more with all of our injuries, but let's face it, we're only trying to make ourselves feel better about it.

C'mon how many teams with winning records are playing their #4 QB, missing 3 starters on defense and an all Conference OL. Rockets wasted
3 Offensive series at the beginning of the game because of the QB situation and still put up almost 500 yds of Offense.. NIU is not a great team and was lucky to win. I'm guessing that they will lose in Kalamazoo.
Rockets need to take of BGSU and EMU.

I dont like losing to NIU but I totally agree with Boca here! Our defense played good enough to win but our offense struggled with three QB changes.

This year you guys are just unlucky with the QB injuries. Especially unlucky since this year we were ripe for a defeat.

But hell, Toledo is still WAY ahead in the series record.
Okay Rocket fans, quit complaining about the team, get off your asses and support the Rockets, against bgsu. I've had enough, listening to your complaints about coach Campbell, maybe you guys should apply for his job.
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2014 03:45 PM by FrickerRon.)
11-13-2014 02:42 PM
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rocketinchitown Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Normally...
Agreed.

Be loud, be proud, and take down those Falcons!




(11-13-2014 02:42 PM)FrickerRon Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 10:43 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 10:20 AM)Stpetebeachrocketfan Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 09:51 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 09:21 AM)tjt1980 Wrote:  It's really hard being a fan of Toledo. The Rockets give you just enough of a taste of what they could be, but not enough to actually be something. To me, this is worse for a fan than a team that actually is nothing and has no potential. We should be winning. We routinely show flashes of what we should be. The flashes are frequent enough to keep us in big games and win insignificant games, but it always leaves us heart broken, or prevents us from enjoying a victory. It's just so damn sad.

I hate how I feel about that game last night. Even knowing that with our injury situation we had no business in that game, the loss hurts so bad. We can talk all we want about how NIU should have beat us by more with all of our injuries, but let's face it, we're only trying to make ourselves feel better about it.

C'mon how many teams with winning records are playing their #4 QB, missing 3 starters on defense and an all Conference OL. Rockets wasted
3 Offensive series at the beginning of the game because of the QB situation and still put up almost 500 yds of Offense.. NIU is not a great team and was lucky to win. I'm guessing that they will lose in Kalamazoo.
Rockets need to take of BGSU and EMU.

I dont like losing to NIU but I totally agree with Boca here! Our defense played good enough to win but our offense struggled with three QB changes.

This year you guys are just unlucky with the QB injuries. Especially unlucky since this year we were ripe for a defeat.

But hell, Toledo is still WAY ahead in the series record.
Okay Rocket fans, quite complaining about the team, get off your asses and support the Rockets, against bgsu. I've had enough, listening to your complains about coach Campbell, maybe you guys should apply for his job.
11-13-2014 03:15 PM
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T-Town Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Normally...
(11-13-2014 01:16 PM)rocketinchitown Wrote:  this was the year, AND WE STILL HAVE A CHANCE.

Don't give up the ship, yet!

Rockets need us on Weds!

Assuming that UT can handle EMU and that NIU can handle Ohio, then it comes down to two games: UT vs BG and WMU vs NIU

If you consider both of these games as toss-ups, then UT currently still has a 25% (1 out of 4) chance, but if UT loses to BG they have a 0% chance even if there is a three way tie. Last year UT would have held the tie breaker for a three way tie but I don't think they would this year. Of course if UT had somehow beaten NIU their chance at this point would have been 100% (again assuming a win over EMU)

So there is still a chance but the odds are now 3 to 1 against them so while doable, it will be an uphill battle that requires some help from Western.
11-13-2014 05:29 PM
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