With the Auburn loss, and if Alabama should lose, we are one game away from possibly having no representative in the playoff series. If Alabama beats Miss State, it is over. I guess State could go 11-1 and make it but that is no guarantee. The one loss schools higher than State would have to lose for State to move back up to the four spot. No SEC East school has any chance. Missouri is leading the division and are unranked this week.How much credit would the committee give State for their SEC schedule vs other schools? At the time of this posting, Alabama and LSU are in overtime. If the Tide wins, things will be more promising for a berth in the final four. Thoughts?

(11-08-2014 11:41 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  With the Auburn loss, and if Alabama should lose, we are one game away from possibly having no representative in the playoff series. If Alabama beats Miss State, it is over. I guess State could go 11-1 and make it but that is no guarantee. The one loss schools higher than State would have to lose for State to move back up to the four spot. No SEC East school has any chance. Missouri is leading the division and are unranked this week.How much credit would the committee give State for their SEC schedule vs other schools? At the time of this posting, Alabama and LSU are in overtime. If the Tide wins, things will be more promising for a berth in the final four. Thoughts?

Medic the only way we don't get a school in is if Miss State loses 2 of the remaining games. Alabama is headed to overtime with L.S.U. as I type. While the scenario is possible you have to also remember that Oregon could easily drop a championship game to Arizona State, the SOS issue over Ohio State and Nebraska means a two loss SEC champion likely gets in over them. So give Florida State, a PAC champion and a one loss Big 12 champ a spot and a two loss SEC champion is still in great shape. But we will just have to wait and see. If we don't get somebody in there is at least 1 good thing likely to come out of it, divisional realignment within the SEC. Auburn and Alabama to the East, Missouri and Kentucky to the West.

Miss State has games remaining with Alabama (away) Vandy (home), and Ole Miss (away). I like their chances against Alabama as they match up favorably with Alabama's system the way that Arkansas and L.S.U. did. Both played Alabama very close. Miss State beat both more easily than Bama did. I like their Chances against Vanderbilt needless to say. Ole Miss presents match up problems for State, but they hate each other so it will be what it will be. Odds there are 50/50 IMO. Georgia should they emerge or Missouri should they emerge from the West both present some offensive match ups that could give State some problems, but only on that side of the ball. State's defense is much better than Georgia's and significantly larger than Missouri's. So I would still like State in that game against either potential contender.

BTW Alabama won. But they won't match up well with us. It doesn't mean we'll win, just that their defense isn't built to stop a spread.

(11-08-2014 11:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-08-2014 11:41 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  With the Auburn loss, and if Alabama should lose, we are one game away from possibly having no representative in the playoff series. If Alabama beats Miss State, it is over. I guess State could go 11-1 and make it but that is no guarantee. The one loss schools higher than State would have to lose for State to move back up to the four spot. No SEC East school has any chance. Missouri is leading the division and are unranked this week.How much credit would the committee give State for their SEC schedule vs other schools? At the time of this posting, Alabama and LSU are in overtime. If the Tide wins, things will be more promising for a berth in the final four. Thoughts?

Medic the only way we don't get a school in is if Miss State loses 2 of the remaining games. Alabama is headed to overtime with L.S.U. as I type. While the scenario is possible you have to also remember that Oregon could easily drop a championship game to Arizona State, the SOS issue over Ohio State and Nebraska means a two loss SEC champion likely gets in over them. So give Florida State, a PAC champion and a one loss Big 12 champ a spot and a two loss SEC champion is still in great shape. But we will just have to wait and see. If we don't get somebody in there is at least 1 good thing likely to come out of it, divisional realignment within the SEC. Auburn and Alabama to the East, Missouri and Kentucky to the West.

Division realignment does sound like the prudent thing to do. Alabama made things a bit easier for the conference as far as I can see now. Do you think the SEC will realign n the near future? I really love the East, but just happy to be a member. Alabama would preserve it's annual game with both Auburn and Tennessee. I can't imagine they would fuss too much. I know they are concerned over Auburn recruiting in the East...

(11-09-2014 12:15 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(11-08-2014 11:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-08-2014 11:41 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  With the Auburn loss, and if Alabama should lose, we are one game away from possibly having no representative in the playoff series. If Alabama beats Miss State, it is over. I guess State could go 11-1 and make it but that is no guarantee. The one loss schools higher than State would have to lose for State to move back up to the four spot. No SEC East school has any chance. Missouri is leading the division and are unranked this week.How much credit would the committee give State for their SEC schedule vs other schools? At the time of this posting, Alabama and LSU are in overtime. If the Tide wins, things will be more promising for a berth in the final four. Thoughts?

Medic the only way we don't get a school in is if Miss State loses 2 of the remaining games. Alabama is headed to overtime with L.S.U. as I type. While the scenario is possible you have to also remember that Oregon could easily drop a championship game to Arizona State, the SOS issue over Ohio State and Nebraska means a two loss SEC champion likely gets in over them. So give Florida State, a PAC champion and a one loss Big 12 champ a spot and a two loss SEC champion is still in great shape. But we will just have to wait and see. If we don't get somebody in there is at least 1 good thing likely to come out of it, divisional realignment within the SEC. Auburn and Alabama to the East, Missouri and Kentucky to the West.

Division realignment does sound like the prudent thing to do. Alabama made things a bit easier for the conference as far as I can see now. Do you think the SEC will realign n the near future? I really love the East, but just happy to be a member. Alabama would preserve it's annual game with both Auburn and Tennessee. I can't imagine they would fuss too much. I know they are concerned over Auburn recruiting in the East...

I don't know if we will without a slap in the face like the aforementioned scenario causing it. When Missouri was placed in the East it was believed to be temporary. The idea was why fight the major realignment if we were going to move to 16 with two more from the East and then break down into pods.

So to answer your question I think it depends on whether there is realignment in the offing in the near future. If there is, and Slive would know about it, then we wait. If the GOR's and current conference structures are set for a while, then maybe we go ahead and deal with what is a growing problem. The SEC West has been the NFL Lite this year, while the East admittedly has been very mediocre for the most part. The result has been much less coverage for half of the conference. The networks are going to want us to balance the product better as well. Personally it would be okay with me if we re-balanced the conference every 12 years (every three graduating classes).

(11-09-2014 12:20 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-09-2014 12:15 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(11-08-2014 11:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-08-2014 11:41 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  With the Auburn loss, and if Alabama should lose, we are one game away from possibly having no representative in the playoff series. If Alabama beats Miss State, it is over. I guess State could go 11-1 and make it but that is no guarantee. The one loss schools higher than State would have to lose for State to move back up to the four spot. No SEC East school has any chance. Missouri is leading the division and are unranked this week.How much credit would the committee give State for their SEC schedule vs other schools? At the time of this posting, Alabama and LSU are in overtime. If the Tide wins, things will be more promising for a berth in the final four. Thoughts?

Medic the only way we don't get a school in is if Miss State loses 2 of the remaining games. Alabama is headed to overtime with L.S.U. as I type. While the scenario is possible you have to also remember that Oregon could easily drop a championship game to Arizona State, the SOS issue over Ohio State and Nebraska means a two loss SEC champion likely gets in over them. So give Florida State, a PAC champion and a one loss Big 12 champ a spot and a two loss SEC champion is still in great shape. But we will just have to wait and see. If we don't get somebody in there is at least 1 good thing likely to come out of it, divisional realignment within the SEC. Auburn and Alabama to the East, Missouri and Kentucky to the West.

Division realignment does sound like the prudent thing to do. Alabama made things a bit easier for the conference as far as I can see now. Do you think the SEC will realign n the near future? I really love the East, but just happy to be a member. Alabama would preserve it's annual game with both Auburn and Tennessee. I can't imagine they would fuss too much. I know they are concerned over Auburn recruiting in the East...

I don't know if we will without a slap in the face like the aforementioned scenario causing it. When Missouri was placed in the East it was believed to be temporary. The idea was why fight the major realignment if we were going to move to 16 with two more from the East and then break down into pods.

So to answer your question I think it depends on whether there is realignment in the offing in the near future. If there is, and Slive would know about it, then we wait. If the GOR's and current conference structures are set for a while, then maybe we go ahead and deal with what is a growing problem. The SEC West has been the NFL Lite this year, while the East admittedly has been very mediocre for the most part. The result has been much less coverage for half of the conference. The networks are going to want us to balance the product better as well. Personally it would be okay with me if we re-balanced the conference every 12 years (every three graduating classes).

True. I remember when the East was hot sauce. It has really shifted now. Who would have thought that Florida, South Carolina, and Georgia would could fall as far as they have. For that matter, Tennessee if you want to go back further in time.

How about this?

Alabama/Auburn
Florida/Georgia
Mississippi State/Mississippi
Missouri/Arkansas
Texas A&M/LSU
Tennessee/Vanderbilt
Kentucky/South Carolina

The current West division loses Alabama, Texas A&M, and Mississippi State while gaining Georgia, Vanderbilt, and South Carolina. The only real odd locked cross-division matchup is Kentucky-South Carolina, but both of those schools are in the East division now. Coincidentally this also allows the last week of the season to be either games against the cross-division rival, or against a traditional OOC rival from the ACC (Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina).

This is why the SEC and the ACC should take their ball and form their own playoff. Each conference needs to expand by two and just go with it.

(11-09-2014 10:04 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  This is why the SEC and the ACC should take their ball and form their own playoff. Each conference needs to expand by two and just go with it.

ESPN would never allow it. That would be a devaluing.

Wait till the SEC is left out of the playoff. Then we will see changes.

(11-09-2014 01:53 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Wait till the SEC is left out of the playoff. Then we will see changes.

I actually just said that in a thread on the main forum. Nothing will bring about a quick expansion to six teams than the SEC knocking itself out of the playoff.

Be proud to be martyrs in the name of progress.

I too thought the SEC could have a scenario where they could be left out. I'm not one to cry over it as this has been a great season of football in the SEC and throughout the nation. Based upon the remaining schedules, the only guarantees I see are FSU and the PAC12 winner. That leaves two spots for three conferences. I just don't see MSST making it through the conference undefeated at this point.

(11-10-2014 09:39 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I too thought the SEC could have a scenario where they could be left out. I'm not one to cry over it as this has been a great season of football in the SEC and throughout the nation. Based upon the remaining schedules, the only guarantees I see are FSU and the PAC12 winner. That leaves two spots for three conferences. I just don't see MSST making it through the conference undefeated at this point.

If Alabama beats Miss State and then loses to Auburn in the Iron Bowl, it will be bad... No one knows how the committee will look at this but to move a school up several spots and past another one loss school will create a national uproar...

(11-10-2014 01:26 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(11-10-2014 09:39 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I too thought the SEC could have a scenario where they could be left out. I'm not one to cry over it as this has been a great season of football in the SEC and throughout the nation. Based upon the remaining schedules, the only guarantees I see are FSU and the PAC12 winner. That leaves two spots for three conferences. I just don't see MSST making it through the conference undefeated at this point.

If Alabama beats Miss State and then loses to Auburn in the Iron Bowl, it will be bad... No one knows how the committee will look at this but to move a school up several spots and past another one loss school will create a national uproar...

An uproar is great! I don't want a damned committee picking the teams. I don't want Condi Rice, a politician, or any politician, picking the field. And I don't think any conference's champion should be left out or that any conference needs two schools in.

I am all about the Big 12 getting left out, not because I'm anti Big 12, but because we need standardization in the sport and among the conferences.

We don't need 6 or 8 or 10 playoff teams either. We need a P4 with 4 strong conferences and with each placing its champion in the tournament every year. That championship combined with bowl results will tell us which conference reigned supreme for that year.

The set up we have presently is a corporate network concoction to maintain the right to be a power broker and that's all it is.

Let the kids earn it on the field and not be denied by the smoke filled room. If you don't win your conference you don't deserve a shot. If you do you don't deserve to be voted out by a bunch of yahoos who never played a down in their lives. Archie Manning not withstanding.

Sometimes I can't believe that Americans have been warped to think the way they do now where rationalizations are used in place of common sense, and finding a political way to get what your influence can buy trumps fair play. Shame of us for creating this monstrosity in the first place.

Those who use computers, polls, and committees to bolster their bias are so corrupt at the core that they miss what the game is all about. What they are to borrow from "The Natural" is a bunch of Max Mercy's who think what they have to say about those who play is more important than the games themselves. What a warped existence that is.

(11-10-2014 02:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-10-2014 01:26 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(11-10-2014 09:39 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I too thought the SEC could have a scenario where they could be left out. I'm not one to cry over it as this has been a great season of football in the SEC and throughout the nation. Based upon the remaining schedules, the only guarantees I see are FSU and the PAC12 winner. That leaves two spots for three conferences. I just don't see MSST making it through the conference undefeated at this point.

If Alabama beats Miss State and then loses to Auburn in the Iron Bowl, it will be bad... No one knows how the committee will look at this but to move a school up several spots and past another one loss school will create a national uproar...

An uproar is great! I don't want a damned committee picking the teams. I don't want Condi Rice, a politician, or any politician, picking the field. And I don't think any conference's champion should be left out or that any conference needs two schools in.

I am all about the Big 12 getting left out, not because I'm anti Big 12, but because we need standardization in the sport and among the conferences.

We don't need 6 or 8 or 10 playoff teams either. We need a P4 with 4 strong conferences and with each placing its champion in the tournament every year. That championship combined with bowl results will tell us which conference reigned supreme for that year.

The set up we have presently is a corporate network concoction to maintain the right to be a power broker and that's all it is.

Let the kids earn it on the field and not be denied by the smoke filled room. If you don't win your conference you don't deserve a shot. If you do you don't deserve to be voted out by a bunch of yahoos who never played a down in their lives. Archie Manning not withstanding.

Sometimes I can't believe that Americans have been warped to think the way they do now where rationalizations are used in place of common sense, and finding a political way to get what your influence can buy trumps fair play. Shame of us for creating this monstrosity in the first place.

Those who use computers, polls, and committees to bolster their bias are so corrupt at the core that they miss what the game is all about. What they are to borrow from "The Natural" is a bunch of Max Mercy's who think what they have to say about those who play is more important than the games themselves. What a warped existence that is.

JR,

You've been around long enough that what seems like glacial changes to me have to be a major improvement over what it used to be when teams just played some games and writers got together at the end of the year and picked a champ.

You once stated that networks aren't fond of the champs model because they might end up with these that won't energize a region. But I think this season shows that at least in the SE and the MW, as long as they are represented, these areas of the country would definitely care and watch regardless of the team.

I've kind of cooled on the P4 model as I think there are too many moving parts to make it a reality. What I think ESPN/FOX could do is expand it to 6 teams with a G5 spot. Just force the the B12 to add at least 2 more teams and eliminate the committee.

(11-10-2014 02:44 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(11-10-2014 02:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-10-2014 01:26 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(11-10-2014 09:39 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I too thought the SEC could have a scenario where they could be left out. I'm not one to cry over it as this has been a great season of football in the SEC and throughout the nation. Based upon the remaining schedules, the only guarantees I see are FSU and the PAC12 winner. That leaves two spots for three conferences. I just don't see MSST making it through the conference undefeated at this point.

If Alabama beats Miss State and then loses to Auburn in the Iron Bowl, it will be bad... No one knows how the committee will look at this but to move a school up several spots and past another one loss school will create a national uproar...

An uproar is great! I don't want a damned committee picking the teams. I don't want Condi Rice, a politician, or any politician, picking the field. And I don't think any conference's champion should be left out or that any conference needs two schools in.

I am all about the Big 12 getting left out, not because I'm anti Big 12, but because we need standardization in the sport and among the conferences.

We don't need 6 or 8 or 10 playoff teams either. We need a P4 with 4 strong conferences and with each placing its champion in the tournament every year. That championship combined with bowl results will tell us which conference reigned supreme for that year.

The set up we have presently is a corporate network concoction to maintain the right to be a power broker and that's all it is.

Let the kids earn it on the field and not be denied by the smoke filled room. If you don't win your conference you don't deserve a shot. If you do you don't deserve to be voted out by a bunch of yahoos who never played a down in their lives. Archie Manning not withstanding.

Sometimes I can't believe that Americans have been warped to think the way they do now where rationalizations are used in place of common sense, and finding a political way to get what your influence can buy trumps fair play. Shame of us for creating this monstrosity in the first place.

Those who use computers, polls, and committees to bolster their bias are so corrupt at the core that they miss what the game is all about. What they are to borrow from "The Natural" is a bunch of Max Mercy's who think what they have to say about those who play is more important than the games themselves. What a warped existence that is.

JR,

You've been around long enough that what seems like glacial changes to me have to be a major improvement over what it used to be when teams just played some games and writers got together at the end of the year and picked a champ.

You once stated that networks aren't fond of the champs model because they might end up with these that won't energize a region. But I think this season shows that at least in the SE and the MW, as long as they are represented, these areas of the country would definitely care and watch regardless of the team.

I've kind of cooled on the P4 model as I think there are too many moving parts to make it a reality. What I think ESPN/FOX could do is expand it to 6 teams with a G5 spot. Just force the the B12 to add at least 2 more teams and eliminate the committee.

I'm not fine with that model that you propose, but I would accept it provided that the G5 split into two large conferences and have the two champions play for that spot. Then the 5 P5 conference champs and the emerging G5 champion could tee it up. The problems here are these:
1. They will need to be seeded so who decides the seeding?
2. Byes at that point in the season are an unfair advantage in preparation.
3. It begins the process of creep. The next clamoring would be for both G5 champs to be included and 1 at large school and then away we go with another selection committee.

Vandiver the only way to slam the door on outside interference is to go to a P4 and let that be it.

But emerging this year is yet another under reported story line, gambling. If true the Winston allegations on point shaving could really damage the game, especially after the dis-enfranchisement of fans during realignment. Couple that to the fraud case at U.N.C. and the college game is about to take a big hit. Consolidation to 4 in one move, followed by harsh penalties for those caught shaving points, followed by a cleaner academic environment, and the time span of two decades and maybe the game is back on its feet with better helmets and rules to prevent some classes of injuries. The damn cut blocks have got to go and targeting a knee needs to draw as much attention as head blows.

BTW Vandiver a champion only model makes the beauty pageant mentality go away. That means it is no longer necessary to schedule 3 cupcakes OOC. Those games in a champions only model serve no purpose. So the content of the season goes up and the number of conference games increases to 9 or 10. I'm all for that too!

Doomsday? No SEC team in playoffs?
I still think Mississippi State runs the table and wins in Atlanta over Mizzou or Georgia.

We can still get two teams in the playoffs in if Mississippi State loses to only Alabama and the winner of the Alabama/Mizzou SECCG gets voted in.

(11-10-2014 05:57 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  Doomsday? No SEC team in playoffs?
I still think Mississippi State runs the table and wins in Atlanta over Mizzou or Georgia.

We can still get two teams in the playoffs in if Mississippi State loses to only Alabama and the winner of the Alabama/Mizzou SECCG gets voted in.

Perhaps you can explain this to me. Why do you feel as if it is some great thing if the SEC gets two teams in the playoff? I don't want to see two PAC teams or two Big Ten teams in the playoff. I don't want to see both Oregon and Arizona State make it in. I want to see one team rise above the rest and prove they are worthy of representing their respective conferences against the rest of the country.

Do you guys feel there is something missing in your lives that it requires two SEC teams in the playoffs to make up for it? Is it some spitefulness against the rest of the country? I am sorry but the rest of us just don't quite understand this mindset. I get wanting a particular conference to win it all. What I don't get is why you want your conference to win it all against yourselves. It quite literally doesn't make any sense at all. That is what you do in the SEC Championship. If you want to argue in the end that the SEC Championship game mattered more than any Playoff game, including the Championship, then great. I would very much enjoy having that debate in the end if it is even debatable.

What I don't get is this mentality you people seem to have about wanting to play yourselves in the National Playoff.

Aren't you people against Entitlements?

I don't see two SEC teams in the playoff for all the reasons H1 and JR gave. No one outside the SEC, and maybe only half the people in the SEC, wants to watch a rematch of two SEC teams. I also don't see the SEC getting shut out of the playoffs even if their champ has 2 or 3 losses.

The SEC champ, whoever that is, is in.
Oregon is in if it wins out.
FSU is in if it wins out.
TCU is probably in if it wins out.

I could see Ohio State passing TCU if (i) it does a beatdown of Minnesota on the road at Minny this weekend (common opponent with TCU, who played Minny at home) and (ii) it convincingly beats Nebraska in the CCG like it did with MSU. I think the selection committee discounts the loss to VT as happening early in the season, less than two weeks after losing their Heisman candidate QB. JT Barrett is the real thing. He was named National Player of the Week for his performance against MSU.

If either FSU or Oregon or both lose, it's a SNAFU, for all of us who are old enough to remember what that stands for.

(11-11-2014 01:10 AM)CintiFan Wrote:  I don't see two SEC teams in the playoff for all the reasons H1 and JR gave. No one outside the SEC, and maybe only half the people in the SEC, wants to watch a rematch of two SEC teams. I also don't see the SEC getting shut out of the playoffs even if their champ has 2 or 3 losses.

The SEC champ, whoever that is, is in.
Oregon is in if it wins out.
FSU is in if it wins out.
TCU is probably in if it wins out.

I could see Ohio State passing TCU if (i) it does a beatdown of Minnesota on the road at Minny this weekend (common opponent with TCU, who played Minny at home) and (ii) it convincingly beats Nebraska in the CCG like it did with MSU. I think the selection committee discounts the loss to VT as happening early in the season, less than two weeks after losing their Heisman candidate QB. JT Barrett is the real thing. He was named National Player of the Week for his performance against MSU.

If either FSU or Oregon or both lose, it's a SNAFU, for all of us who are old enough to remember what that stands for.

When FUBAR happens to often SNAFU is born.

(11-10-2014 03:20 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I'm not fine with that model that you propose, but I would accept it provided that the G5 split into two large conferences and have the two champions play for that spot. Then the 5 P5 conference champs and the emerging G5 champion could tee it up. The problems here are these:
1. They will need to be seeded so who decides the seeding?
2. Byes at that point in the season are an unfair advantage in preparation.
3. It begins the process of creep. The next clamoring would be for both G5 champs to be included and 1 at large school and then away we go with another selection committee.

Vandiver the only way to slam the door on outside interference is to go to a P4 and let that be it.

But emerging this year is yet another under reported story line, gambling. If true the Winston allegations on point shaving could really damage the game, especially after the dis-enfranchisement of fans during realignment. Couple that to the fraud case at U.N.C. and the college game is about to take a big hit. Consolidation to 4 in one move, followed by harsh penalties for those caught shaving points, followed by a cleaner academic environment, and the time span of two decades and maybe the game is back on its feet with better helmets and rules to prevent some classes of injuries. The damn cut blocks have got to go and targeting a knee needs to draw as much attention as head blows.

BTW Vandiver a champion only model makes the beauty pageant mentality go away. That means it is no longer necessary to schedule 3 cupcakes OOC. Those games in a champions only model serve no purpose. So the content of the season goes up and the number of conference games increases to 9 or 10. I'm all for that too!

The G5 can get together and figure out how to determine their representative based on whatever standards they want, from internal playoffs to thumb wrestling. And while byes are an advantage, I think they are also an incentive for teams to strive for. As for seeding, you could implement the standards used by the NFL and modify them for college use:

Best Overall Record (est min number of games)
Best In Conference Record
OOC Performance vs. P5 (1 point for actual game, 2 points for win)

And as you well know, creep only happens if there is money for it. Thus if the G5 feel they deserve more representation in the CFP, the numbers would have to be justified by the draw of the internal G5 tourney. I doubt that the ratings will reflect that.

As for gambling, I don't think that's been under reported, just ignored as it is a major driver for the growth of CFB as well as the NFL. As long as the corruption isn't egregious, I think the sports biggest concern in maintaining the throughput of bodies.