(11-12-2014 02:32 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Wait....I thought the party line all along during realignment was for FSU (and Clemson FWIW) to just win and we had nothing to worry about. That what the rest of the conference did wouldn't matter.

Who said that....?!?!


Well I know for a fact that Coach Petrino and my Cards aren't satisfied not being highly ranked soooooooo that will change.
FlossY Out...

(11-12-2014 04:12 PM)HRFlossY Wrote:  

(11-12-2014 02:32 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Wait....I thought the party line all along during realignment was for FSU (and Clemson FWIW) to just win and we had nothing to worry about. That what the rest of the conference did wouldn't matter.

Who said that....?!?!


Well I know for a fact that Coach Petrino and my Cards aren't satisfied not being highly ranked soooooooo that will change.
FlossY Out...

Pretty much every fanbase in the ACC at the time except for Clemson and FSU. Anywhere you went and realignment was being discussed it was FSU and Clemson's fault that football was down. The overwhelming theme was all we had to do is win and it would take care of itself. Problem is the two schools are a collective 64-8 since the start of the 2012 season and things seem pretty much the same to me.

(11-12-2014 04:45 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-12-2014 04:12 PM)HRFlossY Wrote:  

(11-12-2014 02:32 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Wait....I thought the party line all along during realignment was for FSU (and Clemson FWIW) to just win and we had nothing to worry about. That what the rest of the conference did wouldn't matter.

Who said that....?!?!


Well I know for a fact that Coach Petrino and my Cards aren't satisfied not being highly ranked soooooooo that will change.
FlossY Out...

Pretty much every fanbase in the ACC at the time except for Clemson and FSU. Anywhere you went and realignment was being discussed it was FSU and Clemson's fault that football was down. The overwhelming theme was all we had to do is win and it would take care of itself. Problem is the two schools are a collective 64-8 since the start of the 2012 season and things seem pretty much the same to me.

I don't know what exact time frame during realignment that you're referring to, but if it's real recent it's inaccurate to include Louisville fans as a whole in the bolded text.

FSU's decline from 2001-2011 certainly hurt the image of the league. While it was unrealistic to expect them to continue their '90's performance forever, they were and are seen as the bell cow of the league. 27 losses from 2005-2009 certainly hurt the league's image. Clemson wasn't doing much at that time either.

I think it's a matter of expectations, and all schools play a part. The collective "country" expects more out of FSU and Clemson, so when they have 4 to 6 loss seasons that hurts the league image.

It also hurts the league's image when we don't have others ranked and when we have schools that have the potential to succeed struggling and potentially not even bowl eligible. No one expects UNC to be like FSU, but they play a part as well in the league's image when they have at least five losses every year this century other than 2012.

Obviously conference games are a .500 end game as a league, so we need everyone to perform better out of league. Clemson and FSU especially have stepped it up the last few years but anyone who thought that would be enough is kidding themselves. Jeff Long last night cited FSU having 2 Top 25 wins to 3 for Oregon as a reason for moving the Ducks ahead. That's on others to a large degree. Improvement can be had nearly everywhere. Example- this is Louisville's first year in the league and we've been pretty successful so we are not a primary target of scorn, but if the Cards hadn't muffed a punt late in the 4th Q in Charlottesville in Sept the Cards would be 8-2 instead of 7-3 and I strongly suspect we'd be FSU's "3rd Top 25 win" right now.

Go down the current hierarchy. Even if Syracuse and Wake are barely winning any conference games, we can't afford to have schools barely beating FCS opponents and losing to La-Monroe. It has to be a collective effort and hopefully the commitment is there across the board in 14 athletic offices.

(11-12-2014 07:09 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  

(11-12-2014 04:45 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-12-2014 04:12 PM)HRFlossY Wrote:  

(11-12-2014 02:32 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Wait....I thought the party line all along during realignment was for FSU (and Clemson FWIW) to just win and we had nothing to worry about. That what the rest of the conference did wouldn't matter.

Who said that....?!?!


Well I know for a fact that Coach Petrino and my Cards aren't satisfied not being highly ranked soooooooo that will change.
FlossY Out...

Pretty much every fanbase in the ACC at the time except for Clemson and FSU. Anywhere you went and realignment was being discussed it was FSU and Clemson's fault that football was down. The overwhelming theme was all we had to do is win and it would take care of itself. Problem is the two schools are a collective 64-8 since the start of the 2012 season and things seem pretty much the same to me.

I don't know what exact time frame during realignment that you're referring to, but if it's real recent it's inaccurate to include Louisville fans as a whole in the bolded text.

FSU's decline from 2001-2011 certainly hurt the image of the league. While it was unrealistic to expect them to continue their '90's performance forever, they were and are seen as the bell cow of the league. 27 losses from 2005-2009 certainly hurt the league's image. Clemson wasn't doing much at that time either.

I think it's a matter of expectations, and all schools play a part. The collective "country" expects more out of FSU and Clemson, so when they have 4 to 6 loss seasons that hurts the league image.

It also hurts the league's image when we don't have others ranked and when we have schools that have the potential to succeed struggling and potentially not even bowl eligible. No one expects UNC to be like FSU, but they play a part as well in the league's image when they have at least five losses every year this century other than 2012.

Obviously conference games are a .500 end game as a league, so we need everyone to perform better out of league. Clemson and FSU especially have stepped it up the last few years but anyone who thought that would be enough is kidding themselves. Jeff Long last night cited FSU having 2 Top 25 wins to 3 for Oregon as a reason for moving the Ducks ahead. That's on others to a large degree. Improvement can be had nearly everywhere. Example- this is Louisville's first year in the league and we've been pretty successful so we are not a primary target of scorn, but if the Cards hadn't muffed a punt late in the 4th Q in Charlottesville in Sept the Cards would be 8-2 instead of 7-3 and I strongly suspect we'd be FSU's "3rd Top 25 win" right now.

Go down the current hierarchy. Even if Syracuse and Wake are barely winning any conference games, we can't afford to have schools barely beating FCS opponents and losing to La-Monroe. It has to be a collective effort and hopefully the commitment is there across the board in 14 athletic offices.

Again, that's why I said pretty much every ACC fanbase at the time.

You are preaching to the choir. I get lambasted around here all the time for saying pretty much the same thing.

(11-12-2014 08:59 AM)nole Wrote:  

(11-11-2014 10:18 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(11-11-2014 09:44 PM)nole Wrote:  FSU falls with wins in the ACC....while other conferences move up with losses.


ACC is dead conference walking.

Has nothing to do with that. They are looking at margin of victory. If FSU didn't struggle so much there's no debate. You can't come from behind every game and expect it to not catch up with you at some point.

Regardless, this is a non-issue. After this plays out over the next 3 weeks or so, FSU will be #1.

You are blind if you think this has nothing to do with the ACC.



This is why the ACC is the new Big East. It refuses to acknowledge it's issues and feels all conference issues are FSU's.


THe conference gets ZERO respect. An undefeated conference team gets less respect than a 1 loss Pac 12 team (who lost to a 21 point underdog).


It IS about the ACC.....the ACC is just too stupid to understand it.


Big East 2.0

We all know the ACC doesn't get the same respect as some of the other major conferences, but that's self inflicted. FSU played more teams than just ACC caliber. OK State lost JW Walsh after they played FSU and now they suck. ND played the game of their lives against FSU but then blew a tire against AZ St. Which Florida team will show up? The one that beat Georgia or the one that got crushed by Missouri. That plus the fact FSU isn't blowing teams out from the start has the committee questioning them. But like I said earlier, it doesn't matter right now. It will work itself out. FSU closes with Miami, BC, Florida and that's better than Oregon's Colorado and Oreg St.

I hope FSU doesn't drop out of the top 4 if they are undefeated.

This is ridiculous that FSU dropped. In addition to playing in the toughest division of the ACC they played 3 contract bowl conference teams OOC. They went over the suggested requirement of trying to schedule up for the CFP committee and they still dropped. FSU didn't know Fla and OSU where going to be bad this year and ND is still top 20.

I hope FSU schedules this well in the future, it could do irreparable damage to the conference if they were left out while undefeated.

(11-11-2014 10:18 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(11-11-2014 09:44 PM)nole Wrote:  FSU falls with wins in the ACC....while other conferences move up with losses.


ACC is dead conference walking.

Has nothing to do with that. They are looking at margin of victory. If FSU didn't struggle so much there's no debate. You can't come from behind every game and expect it to not catch up with you at some point.

Regardless, this is a non-issue. After this plays out over the next 3 weeks or so, FSU will be #1.

Wait, you're saying FSU's margin of victory isn't big enough in comparison to a team that lost at home to a then unranked 3 touchdown underdog, a team that since that game has gone a mere 2-2?

Are you saying margin of victory only matters when it's a close win and losses (a negative margin of victory, if you will) should be ignored?

(And how the hell is Arizona #14 with those two losses in their last four games? From the acc, only FSU would even be in the top 25 if they lost 2 of 4 in the mid/latter part of the season. And that'd be the fringe top 25, let alone top 15.)

(11-12-2014 12:35 PM)HRFlossY Wrote:  Well A Lot of the key teams this year were breaking in new QB's so I would assume the ACC will be better next year at the top, with FSU maybe taking a baby step back.

We just need to win our Bowls and OOC games and perception will slowly change.
FLossY Out...

Man, I can't help but feel like I've heard that somewhere before. Ah! That's right. I've heard it every year for the last decade.

But maybe next year. Oh, dear. I've heard that one a lot, too.

(11-13-2014 04:40 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(11-11-2014 10:18 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(11-11-2014 09:44 PM)nole Wrote:  FSU falls with wins in the ACC....while other conferences move up with losses.


ACC is dead conference walking.

Has nothing to do with that. They are looking at margin of victory. If FSU didn't struggle so much there's no debate. You can't come from behind every game and expect it to not catch up with you at some point.

Regardless, this is a non-issue. After this plays out over the next 3 weeks or so, FSU will be #1.

Wait, you're saying FSU's margin of victory isn't big enough in comparison to a team that lost at home to a then unranked 3 touchdown underdog, a team that since that game has gone a mere 2-2?

Are you saying margin of victory only matters when it's a close win and losses (a negative margin of victory, if you will) should be ignored?

(And how the hell is Arizona #14 with those two losses in their last four games? From the acc, only FSU would even be in the top 25 if they lost 2 of 4 in the mid/latter part of the season. And that'd be the fringe top 25, let alone top 15.)

That is the standard the committee seems to hold against FSU. They told us margin of victory doesn't matter. They lied.

You realize margin of victory only matters when you win, right? If you LOSE, the margin of "victory" is meaningless. Are you not following in how that relates to FSU vs Oregon?

IMO, the committee is putting too much emphasis on "the eye test" - which is just another way of saying "I don't care what the facts say, I like the way team X looks!"

(11-13-2014 09:33 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  IMO, the committee is putting too much emphasis on "the eye test" - which is just another way of saying "I don't care what the facts say, I like the way team X looks!"

Agreed & "the eye test" is why FSU was jumped. The season end before the bowls is the only one that matters. There will be more changes before then.

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2

I also think the committee is making subtle "messages" to teams. Like TCU v Baylor..."Baylor schedule better. We don't care you beat TCU and have the same record. Your OOO scheduled sucked". Same for FSU..."You guys need to start playing better or you'll be on the outside looking in"

(11-14-2014 03:23 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I also think the committee is making subtle "messages" to teams. Like TCU v Baylor..."Baylor schedule better. We don't care you beat TCU and have the same record. Your OOO scheduled sucked". Same for FSU..."You guys need to start playing better or you'll be on the outside looking in"

I think we are over thinking what kind of messages the committee might be sending. I think you could make just as good a case that they are making it up as they go along, and they are as confused as everybody else about which teams are better than others.

Basically, as each new ranking is announced, and teams move up and down the ladder (sometimes precipitously), the committee is saying "we got it wrong last week, but this week, we think we have a handle on it." They will continue to say the same thing each week right up to Week 15, when they will definitively announce that "These are the four best teams. Trust us."

And we still won't know why they feel that way.

(11-14-2014 03:36 PM)ken d Wrote:  I think we are over thinking what kind of messages the committee might be sending. I think you could make just as good a case that they are making it up as they go along, and they are as confused as everybody else about which teams are better than others.

Basically, as each new ranking is announced, and teams move up and down the ladder (sometimes precipitously), the committee is saying "we got it wrong last week, but this week, we think we have a handle on it." They will continue to say the same thing each week right up to Week 15, when they will definitively announce that "These are the four best teams. Trust us."

And we still won't know why they feel that way.

The selection committee is simply comparing schedules, much like the NCAA basketball committee, but only to THIS POINT OF THE SEASON.

TCU:
Overall: 8-1
v. top-25: 2-1
v. 26-50: 3-0
v. 51-75: n/a
v. 76-100: 1-0
v. 101+: 2-0

Good wins: #13 Kansas St., #25 Minnesota
Decent wins: Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., West Virginia
Good loss: #7 Baylor
Bad Loss: none

COMPARED TO

BAYLOR
Overall: 8-1
v. top-25: 1-0
v. 26-50: 1-1
v. 51-75: N/A
v. 76-100: 3-0
v. 101+: 3-0

Good wins: #4 TCU
Decent Wins: Oklahoma
Good loss: none
Bad Loss: West Virginia

So, TCU is 5-1 against the top-50 with no bad losses. Baylor is 2-1 against the top-50 with a bad loss. RIGHT NOW, TCU gets the higher ranking, despite the head-to-head loss.

TCU has mediocre competition the rest of the way and Baylor's resume will improve with Oklahoma St. (a decent win) and Kansas St. (a top-25 win). At that point, the resumes will be more similar - Baylor will be 4-1 against top-50 and TCU still at 5-1. Then, Baylor's head-to-head win will come into play - so will Baylor's Big 12 championship. (of course, Oklahoma St. or Kansas St. will still have something to say about that...and even Texas - against TCU - for that matter).

The CFP selection committee will just work differently than the polls and computer rankings to which we are accustomed. And, Baylor could well sneak into the CFP through the back door.

FSU could play like crap all year but if we go 13-0 we're in the playoff.