Quote:We’ve all heard the excuses: I have too much work, I don’t want to go to a game at 11 a.m — the list goes on. These are valid concerns. Eleven o’clock on a Saturday is early, and Rice can be a lot of work. But for just one day, for just a few hours, we should all join together as a school, as Rice, and root for the team that represents each and every one of us. For one day, let’s not be Murts, Sidizens, Bakerites or whatever you may be. Let’s come together as Rice Owls, watch some quality football and watch our classmates clinch a spot in the college football postseason.
About time something was said. Tomorrow's leaders is not how much you know but what you give back to the community and to the University. I wish it was a requirement before being accepted to enroll that you much attend at least some of the football games at homes.
(11-06-2014 03:14 PM)OldOwl Wrote: Tomorrow's leaders is not how much you know but what you give back to the community and to the University. I wish it was a requirement before being accepted to enroll that you much attend at least some of the football games at homes.
Coincidentally, there's a lot of talk about "leadership" and "giving back to the community" in this Rice-produced video that Walt just posted to Facebook:
Uploaded this past August, it's about the Gateway Scholars program in Rice's School of Social Sciences. Not surprisingly, there's no mention of athletics.
There's been lots of talk on this board that increasing numbers of international students is a big factor in the decline of student attendance at Rice football games and other athletics events. I suspect, however, that an even more dramatic driver is the increasing proportion of serious-minded, high-achieving American students who just don't care about spectator sports. While participating in high-school varsity sports is often a positive indicator for dedication, energy, leadership, maturity, adaptability and good time-management/decision-making ... I suspect that when the tippy-top cream-of-the-crop students who are accepted by and attend Rice these days apply such traits to their college experience, time spent watching some other Rice students compete is sports falls way down on their priority scales.
On many levels, who can blame them. Pro sports and big-time athletics at many universities and even high schools are anathema to many of these excellent students. We know Rice and Rice's athletes are substantially different and are certainly worthy of admiration and support. But it appears that it will take substantial effort to demonstrate to today's typical Rice student the attractiveness and value of including spectator-sports in their non-academic, school-spirit activities. I'm delighted that JK, DB and the Rhoades Scholars are trying hard to convert these masses, and I hope they're successful.
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2014 04:16 PM by Almadenmike.)
There are approximately 1,000 more undergrads than there were 10 years ago. So even if 0% of the intl students came to a game (if I remember correctly, #'s have increased from approx. 150 to approx. 350), we still have 800 more "domestic" students than we had before. Hoping JK's experience gives him some insight in how to activate the student population. Hard to believe there's a more athletic-apathetic or even perhaps anti-athletic crowd than Oberlin. Surely it's tougher for us now than it once was, now that our in-conference rivalries are gone... but if Northwestern, Duke, Stanford, etc. can get butts in seats, then we know it can be done.
It's hard to get information on student attendance specifically, but Northwestern's average attendance is in the high 30k's, Duke's in the high 20k's. Better in absolute numbers than Rice's, but not stellar considering the relative size of their student bodies and their P5 membership.
Attendance is way down across D1, except at some of the mega-schools like ND and the SEC powerhouses.
(11-06-2014 03:14 PM)OldOwl Wrote: Tomorrow's leaders is not how much you know but what you give back to the community and to the University. I wish it was a requirement before being accepted to enroll that you much attend at least some of the football games at homes.
Coincidentally, there's a lot of talk about "leadership" and "giving back to the community" in this Rice-produced video that Walt just posted to Facebook:
Uploaded this past August, it's about the Gateway Scholars program in Rice's School of Social Sciences. Not surprisingly, there's no mention of athletics.
There's been lots of talk on this board that increasing numbers of international students is a big factor in the decline of student attendance at Rice football games and other athletics events. I suspect, however, that an even more dramatic driver is the increasing proportion of serious-minded, high-achieving American students who just don't care about spectator sports. While participating in high-school varsity sports is often a positive indicator for dedication, energy, leadership, maturity, adaptability and good time-management/decision-making ... I suspect that when the tippy-top cream-of-the-crop students who are accepted by and attend Rice these days apply such traits to their college experience, time spent watching some other Rice students compete is sports falls way down on their priority scales.
On many levels, who can blame them. Pro sports and big-time athletics at many universities and even high schools are anathema to many of these excellent students. We know Rice and Rice's athletes are substantially different and are certainly worthy of admiration and support. But it appears that it will take substantial effort to demonstrate to today's typical Rice student the attractiveness and value of including spectator-sports in their non-academic, school-spirit activities. I'm delighted that JK, DB and the Rhoades Scholars are trying hard to convert these masses, and I hope they're successful.
1. Of course a video on the Gateway Program does not mention athletics, as it has absolutely nothing to do with Rice athletics.
2. For those unfamiliar with this now 6-year old program in the School of Social Sciences (which is now the largest school at Rice-- even larger than engineering-- and includes Economics, Sociology, Psychology, Religion, Archiology, Poly Sci, Sports Management, the Kinder research project, etc.), I strongly encourage you to see the video. IMO, it's one of Rice's true academic differentiators for undergrads. It provides real world, non textbook-related experiences similar to what lab work provides to SE majors. I'm as passionate about the Gateway Program as I am about Rice baseball, and that's saying something. The scope of the program continues to grow, and this year 208 students are taking advantage of the opportunity.
(11-06-2014 04:37 PM)NYNightOwl Wrote: Hoping JK's experience gives him some insight in how to activate the student population.
He's only been around a year, so maybe his insights will shine through next year?
It's going to take time, and student apathy towards athletic events is by no means limited to Rice. Talking with Dr. K, Josh Thiel and Tanner Gardner this week, I can tell you that they have not only spoken with the residential college Presidents about what it would take to get increased student turnout at sporting events, but they've also surveyed a broad section of students. They're going to test several different promotions to bump up turnout at 4 MBB home games this season.
(11-06-2014 04:37 PM)NYNightOwl Wrote: Hoping JK's experience gives him some insight in how to activate the student population.
He's only been around a year, so maybe his insights will shine through next year?
It's going to take time, and student apathy towards athletic events is by no means limited to Rice. Talking with Dr. K, Josh Thiel and Tanner Gardner this week, I can tell you that they have not only spoken with the residential college Presidents about what it would take to get increased student turnout at sporting events, but they've also surveyed a broad section of students. They're going to test several different promotions to bump up turnout at 4 MBB home games this season.
Fixing student apathy will be incredibly hard, and it will take time. I can't remember how many times people were genuinely surprised I was attending a football or basketball game, let alone another sport (other than baseball).
Obviously winning consistently will help with this, but there has to be some sort of organic change, where students are the driving force behind attendance, rather than some gimmick. The gimmicks may help to get people to start coming in, but they won't keep them there for long. Hopefully JK can crack this nut.
(11-06-2014 04:37 PM)NYNightOwl Wrote: Hoping JK's experience gives him some insight in how to activate the student population.
He's only been around a year, so maybe his insights will shine through next year?
It's going to take time, and student apathy towards athletic events is by no means limited to Rice. Talking with Dr. K, Josh Thiel and Tanner Gardner this week, I can tell you that they have not only spoken with the residential college Presidents about what it would take to get increased student turnout at sporting events, but they've also surveyed a broad section of students. They're going to test several different promotions to bump up turnout at 4 MBB home games this season.
Fixing student apathy will be incredibly hard, and it will take time. I can't remember how many times people were genuinely surprised I was attending a football or basketball game, let alone another sport (other than baseball).
Obviously winning consistently will help with this, but there has to be some sort of organic change, where students are the driving force behind attendance, rather than some gimmick. The gimmicks may help to get people to start coming in, but they won't keep them there for long. Hopefully JK can crack this nut.
The secret is winning with some profile. The largest crowd I saw at Autry was on the night of our Bracket Buster game against UTEP (right?) back in 2005. For some, it might've been the only game they attended during their four years...and I think simply b/c it was on ESPN2. The student section was completely packed all the way to the top rows. People painted their faces/torsos, brought signs, and generally acted like it was a tournament game. Great, great atmosphere.
Rice students will show up when we win AND it gets noticed by the rest of the country. We've got to impress the outside world in order to impress our peers.
Men's bball offers the best opportunity to do that. If Rhoades takes us to the tournament and we get ESPN to show up for a game or two, the students will come in droves.
I can only assume the same would be true for football.
(11-08-2014 12:33 AM)Sunny_BHY Wrote: The secret is winning with some profile. The largest crowd I saw at Autry was on the night of our Bracket Buster game against UTEP (right?) back in 2005. For some, it might've been the only game they attended during their four years...and I think simply b/c it was on ESPN2. The student section was completely packed all the way to the top rows. People painted their faces/torsos, brought signs, and generally acted like it was a tournament game. Great, great atmosphere.
Rice students will show up when we win AND it gets noticed by the rest of the country. We've got to impress the outside world in order to impress our peers.
Men's bball offers the best opportunity to do that. If Rhoades takes us to the tournament and we get ESPN to show up for a game or two, the students will come in droves.
I can only assume the same would be true for football.
(11-08-2014 12:33 AM)Sunny_BHY Wrote: The secret is winning with some profile. The largest crowd I saw at Autry was on the night of our Bracket Buster game against UTEP (right?) back in 2005. For some, it might've been the only game they attended during their four years...and I think simply b/c it was on ESPN2. The student section was completely packed all the way to the top rows. People painted their faces/torsos, brought signs, and generally acted like it was a tournament game. Great, great atmosphere.
Rice students will show up when we win AND it gets noticed by the rest of the country. We've got to impress the outside world in order to impress our peers.
Men's bball offers the best opportunity to do that. If Rhoades takes us to the tournament and we get ESPN to show up for a game or two, the students will come in droves.
I can only assume the same would be true for football.
Murray State 69, Rice 63
Thanks. Clearly I found the atmosphere more memorable than the opponent.
I still say our students will show up for high profile (by our standards) games.
(11-08-2014 12:33 AM)Sunny_BHY Wrote: Rice students will show up when we win AND it gets noticed by the rest of the country. We've got to impress the outside world in order to impress our peers.
Men's bball offers the best opportunity to do that. If Rhoades takes us to the tournament and we get ESPN to show up for a game or two, the students will come in droves.
I can only assume the same would be true for football.
I tend to agree with the above. In a way, this may be an argument for keeping Bailiff for the time being. Whether he can take football to the next level is questionable, but he does appear capable of maintaining at a respectable level. So let him maintain for a few years and focus on getting basketball into the top tier.
I am optimistic that we are headed on the right track in basketball, even though nothing has happened yet in terms of tangible results. I said when we were hiring Rhoades that the two things I wanted were focus on academics and 94-foot basketball. I think we got both in Rhodes. Bailiff gives us the off-the-field part but not necessarily the on-the-field part.
Good basketball and bad football was enough to get Memphis as far as AAC (which granted may not look very far now, but at the time looked like a step up). That might work for us, at least as far as say Mountain West, which at least has a more attractive looking set of possible peers than CUSA/Sun Belt.
I can remember that entire week. What happened with that game was a combination of many things:
1. Select group of us going to all of the colleges every day during the week during lunch and dinner and announcing the game.
2. Game being on ESPN2. Note, last year's game was on national TV (CBS?) however the crowd was not large.
3. Combination of free food and beer for the students before the game. I think we gave away free Autry Army shirts that night as well.
Putting up signs is not enough, engaging the student body with personal announcements and inundating the airwaves works.
Sounds like we have to beg the students to come the games. I still think it should be required the students attend a number of games each year or cannot graduate. Their education is free. Isn't it time they give something back.
(11-06-2014 03:14 PM)OldOwl Wrote: Tomorrow's leaders is not how much you know but what you give back to the community and to the University. I wish it was a requirement before being accepted to enroll that you much attend at least some of the football games at homes.
There's been lots of talk on this board that increasing numbers of international students is a big factor in the decline of student attendance at Rice football games and other athletics events. I suspect, however, that an even more dramatic driver is the increasing proportion of serious-minded, high-achieving American students who just don't care about spectator sports. While participating in high-school varsity sports is often a positive indicator for dedication, energy, leadership, maturity, adaptability and good time-management/decision-making ... I suspect that when the tippy-top cream-of-the-crop students who are accepted by and attend Rice these days apply such traits to their college experience, time spent watching some other Rice students compete is sports falls way down on their priority scales.
On many levels, who can blame them. Pro sports and big-time athletics at many universities and even high schools are anathema to many of these excellent students. We know Rice and Rice's athletes are substantially different and are certainly worthy of admiration and support. But it appears that it will take substantial effort to demonstrate to today's typical Rice student the attractiveness and value of including spectator-sports in their non-academic, school-spirit activities.
I think this pretty much nails it - and I get this.
The thing that bugs me though is the lack of "school spirit". I'd want to go to the games to support my school, and for the social activity of it, even if I didn't know what was going on. I'd go to a "College Bowl"/Jeopardy type game if it was held against other schools; I'd go to a Shepherd School vs. UNT battle of the bands if it ever happened, even if I didn't understand music, etc., etc.
(11-08-2014 08:27 PM)OldOwl Wrote: Sounds like we have to beg the students to come the games. I still think it should be required the students attend a number of games each year or cannot graduate. Their education is free. Isn't it time they give something back.
You know we charge tuition now, right?
Also this is the one of the most idiotic things I've ever read.
(11-08-2014 08:27 PM)OldOwl Wrote: Sounds like we have to beg the students to come the games. I still think it should be required the students attend a number of games each year or cannot graduate. Their education is free. Isn't it time they give something back.
You know we charge tuition now, right?
Also this is the one of the most idiotic things I've ever read.
OldOwl: Rice started charging tuition ($1,200/year, constant for four years) with the class that matriculated in Fall 1965. They're having their 45th class reunion this weekend.
(This post was last modified: 11-09-2014 01:41 AM by Almadenmike.)
(11-08-2014 09:05 PM)Barney Wrote: I think this pretty much nails it - and I get this.
The thing that bugs me though is the lack of "school spirit". I'd want to go to the games to support my school, and for the social activity of it, even if I didn't know what was going on. I'd go to a "College Bowl"/Jeopardy type game if it was held against other schools; I'd go to a Shepherd School vs. UNT battle of the bands if it ever happened, even if I didn't understand music, etc., etc.
as it stands now, or at least between '03-'07, the social activity aspect of it is basically non-existent. obviously games CAN be fun social events, but if that was thecase at Rice right now, we wouldn't be talking about an attendance problem.
I suggest that they make the games socially relevant. Convincing the student body to suddenly become football fans is a tall order. The chance of that becoming a reality is slim. I would instead focus on events outside of the game itself. Make the pre-game and halftime shows memorable. Something big, that brings Rice national attention. Much like what is (or was) being done at Ohio State half times. Not that we should or could replicate what is being done there, but to come up with something equally enticing. Maybe give this guy a shot: http://news.rice.edu/2014/10/13/light-evolving/. Or have the colleges design a halftime event.
Even with an enthusiastic student body, the harsh reality is that you are only talking about a few thousand folks and we need 10's of thousands. I think we need to be more effective in marketing to the Houston community. Being from California, I haven't had the privilege of witnessing a halftime show. I am only basing my suggestions based on what I have read on this board. It seems that the MOB is declining in relevance. It's decline is likely due to the same issues facing the Rice athletic fan base. We need a bigger pool to pull from. Possibly open up the MOB to anyone. Imagine what a MOB might look like with participants from all walks of life, across several Houston communities. It would certainly broaden our reach beyond the hedges.
