Hopefully we'll defend the arc better this year, as well. Gave up LOTS of open looks from 3 last year.

(11-05-2014 09:26 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 07:05 AM)ItsDude Wrote:  3 point shooting it the key...the lack of it on our end and having to guard it on their end. We're going to have to score a lot more 2 point goals.

Kedren was pretty good last year with a horrible frontline at Vandy that didn't create any space for him. Pookie has very deep range and should be good if he doesn't force shots. Woodson easily has the best form on the team and should be pretty good. King is the wildcard. He was a very good long range shooter in high school and got off to a horrible start last year. I think he should be pretty good.

The bottom line is that we have a proven pure point guard and another natural point guard on the roster; and I would think that worst case scenario, we won't shoot threes as poorly as JJ and Geron did last year.

A few things have to fall the right way for us; but I don't see us being worse from outside than we were last year.

Kedren sat out last year, but the year before that was the case. He's a big guard who drives to the basket. He will be big for us.

(11-05-2014 09:05 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Ha, a thread on the season turned into a debate about WSU only. That wasn't my intent.

I think we have a chance to win. We're not slaw. I just think it's unrealistic to think we're going to beat them. Frankly, I think we lose by double digits, and it won't necessarily be close. We only return 2 starters, we have 9 new faces, and I think we will be rough around the edges for a few games.

Oh, and WSU has TWO first team preseason All Americans. They went 35-1, lost to UK by 2 points, and return 4 starters.

As for the season, I think we'll come in third in the conference, and make the tourney.

That's how I view it too. It doesn't mean we will be a bad team if we lose this game.

(11-05-2014 10:03 AM)tnzazz Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 09:05 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Ha, a thread on the season turned into a debate about WSU only. That wasn't my intent.

I think we have a chance to win. We're not slaw. I just think it's unrealistic to think we're going to beat them. Frankly, I think we lose by double digits, and it won't necessarily be close. We only return 2 starters, we have 9 new faces, and I think we will be rough around the edges for a few games.

Oh, and WSU has TWO first team preseason All Americans. They went 35-1, lost to UK by 2 points, and return 4 starters.

As for the season, I think we'll come in third in the conference, and make the tourney.

That's how I view it too. It doesn't mean we will be a bad team if we lose this game.

Absolutely not. This single game (especially with their returning strength) is not a make / break.

(11-05-2014 07:05 AM)ItsDude Wrote:  3 point shooting it the key...the lack of it on our end and having to guard it on their end. We're going to have to score a lot more 2 point goals.

Good point, but IMHO better defense and defensive rebounding are the most important components for success. We need opportunities to run and slash on offense and it cannot be done effectively unless we move the ball in transition situations. I do not see our team creating offensive transition primarily through forcing turnovers.

(11-04-2014 10:46 PM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  

(11-04-2014 10:14 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(11-04-2014 04:54 PM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  

(11-04-2014 02:01 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(11-04-2014 01:56 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  I think we have better athletes without a doubt...If we were having a track meet we would kill them

No doubt, but basketball is not a track meet. I think we got a legit chance agains the Shockers, but their backcourt is the truth...

Yeah their back court is good. Ours was top 3 in the country last year on paper too.

Van Vleet is 6'0, Baker and Cotton go 6'3 each. If we stick some size on them we'll give them problems. I like this match up. Unless they all come out shooting 45%-50% from three I like our chances.

great post, I agree with this.

I wanted to break it down further but was on my phone typing that.

Basically I think it comes down to a few key players for me.

1. Pookie- Can he keep up with VanVleet for this game? VanVleet isn't the best scorer in the country, he's not the best shooter, he's not big, he's a pretty good passer. Doesn't sound too hard right? Wrong, what makes VanVleet special is his leadership, hitting big shots when needed and causing that annoying turnover when your team doesn't need it. If he gets left open on the perimeter there's a good chance he knocks it down. Pookie is much faster and has the potential to be a better player in TIME. As of right now He just needs to keep up with VanVleet. Don't get drawn into cheap fouls, stay in front of him, apply good pressure when asked too and knock down a good percentage of the shots he takes, I'm guessing something like 5-8. If he does that, we'll be good.

2. Kedren- If Kedren were 100%, I would give him the edge over any of Wichita State's guards. He's bigger and none of them would be able to stop him. IF he is in better shape and his head is focused on basketball and not his next song, he should be able to get into the lane EASILY against Wichita State what he does from there is my biggest concern. If he can dish it out to an open man, or hit a few floaters/layups he'll be fine. If he get's in and turns it over or takes bad contested shots we won't. Neither Baker or Van Vleet will beat Kedren off the dribble so he can handle them defensively, Cotton is the only guard Wichita State has that I am worried about Kedren guarding.

3. Burrell- If Burrell is as good as advertised then there is no one that plays for Wichita State that can stop him. He's a 6'7 guard/forward. If he's not then it'll end up hurting us. Everything I have heard is that, this guy is for real. He can guard any player Wichita State throws out there in the 1-3 positions.

4. Woodson- Can he stay in front of his man and knock down threes? If he can again we're golden.

We have the advantage inside at least for right now. So Nichols, Godfrey and Shaq should have big games when they're playing if the guards get them the ball.

The biggest thing for this team this season isn't that we're not great or that we're bad. We just don't know. Nobody really knows. If those 4 above stand out we're in great shape. Anything Iverson does as a new post player or Hawkins does will be a HUGE bonus.

We'll see :)!

GO TIGERS!

IF we are hitching our wagon to Woodson, Burrell and even Pookie, we are going to be in a lot of trouble. All we should hope for from all 3 is that they take care of the ball reasonably well and don't foul out. If they can hit a few open outside shots that will be a nice bonus. If they stay in the game and Wichita State's guards only outscore them by 20 points, we will be in very good shape.

If our guards can get them the ball, our frontline should hammer them.

Burrell is the #12 ranked Juco, Woodson a middle of the road high schooler and Pookie a fringe top 100 recruit; all playing their first ever D1 game. It will come down to whether our frontline or their backcourt dominate the game.

(11-05-2014 01:59 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-04-2014 10:46 PM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  

(11-04-2014 10:14 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(11-04-2014 04:54 PM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  

(11-04-2014 02:01 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  No doubt, but basketball is not a track meet. I think we got a legit chance agains the Shockers, but their backcourt is the truth...

Yeah their back court is good. Ours was top 3 in the country last year on paper too.

Van Vleet is 6'0, Baker and Cotton go 6'3 each. If we stick some size on them we'll give them problems. I like this match up. Unless they all come out shooting 45%-50% from three I like our chances.

great post, I agree with this.

I wanted to break it down further but was on my phone typing that.

Basically I think it comes down to a few key players for me.

1. Pookie- Can he keep up with VanVleet for this game? VanVleet isn't the best scorer in the country, he's not the best shooter, he's not big, he's a pretty good passer. Doesn't sound too hard right? Wrong, what makes VanVleet special is his leadership, hitting big shots when needed and causing that annoying turnover when your team doesn't need it. If he gets left open on the perimeter there's a good chance he knocks it down. Pookie is much faster and has the potential to be a better player in TIME. As of right now He just needs to keep up with VanVleet. Don't get drawn into cheap fouls, stay in front of him, apply good pressure when asked too and knock down a good percentage of the shots he takes, I'm guessing something like 5-8. If he does that, we'll be good.

2. Kedren- If Kedren were 100%, I would give him the edge over any of Wichita State's guards. He's bigger and none of them would be able to stop him. IF he is in better shape and his head is focused on basketball and not his next song, he should be able to get into the lane EASILY against Wichita State what he does from there is my biggest concern. If he can dish it out to an open man, or hit a few floaters/layups he'll be fine. If he get's in and turns it over or takes bad contested shots we won't. Neither Baker or Van Vleet will beat Kedren off the dribble so he can handle them defensively, Cotton is the only guard Wichita State has that I am worried about Kedren guarding.

3. Burrell- If Burrell is as good as advertised then there is no one that plays for Wichita State that can stop him. He's a 6'7 guard/forward. If he's not then it'll end up hurting us. Everything I have heard is that, this guy is for real. He can guard any player Wichita State throws out there in the 1-3 positions.

4. Woodson- Can he stay in front of his man and knock down threes? If he can again we're golden.

We have the advantage inside at least for right now. So Nichols, Godfrey and Shaq should have big games when they're playing if the guards get them the ball.

The biggest thing for this team this season isn't that we're not great or that we're bad. We just don't know. Nobody really knows. If those 4 above stand out we're in great shape. Anything Iverson does as a new post player or Hawkins does will be a HUGE bonus.

We'll see :)!

GO TIGERS!

IF we are hitching our wagon to Woodson, Burrell and even Pookie, we are going to be in a lot of trouble. All we should hope for from all 3 is that they take care of the ball reasonably well and don't foul out. If they can hit a few open outside shots that will be a nice bonus. If they stay in the game and Wichita State's guards only outscore them by 20 points, we will be in very good shape.

If our guards can get them the ball, our frontline should hammer them.

Burrell is the #12 ranked Juco, Woodson a middle of the road high schooler and Pookie a fringe top 100 recruit; all playing their first ever D1 game. It will come down to whether our frontline or their backcourt dominate the game.

What do you think Wichita State is filled with?

VanVleet- from Rockford, Ill., and went to high school at Auburn High. He was a three-star prospect who also held offers from Kent State and Northern Illinois, but VanVleet's lack of size held him back. He still managed to rank No. 19 at his position and 138th nationally, and he was the only top-150 prospect in the Class of 2012 to land in the MVC.

Ron Baker- Was a 2 star recruit (NR) out of HS.

Cotton- 2 Star recruit (NR) in most rankings # 117 in 1 ranking.

Wichita State will be playing with 5 Juco's this season.

So using that to justify why our Juco's or top 100 recruits will struggle is just silly.

Also for what it's worth Early their best player last year is now playing with the NY Knicks. He was a 2 star out of high school and played for Sullivan County Community College before transferring to Wichita State. (JUCO)

Long story short we have 3 VERY good JUCO players.

Burrell avg 25.2 PPG, 7.5 RPG, 5.6 APG. ( Offers from Memphis, SMU, Oklahoma State, Alabama, Arizona State, Baylor, USF, Texas A&M, and Washington State.)

He was also top 5 http://www.commercialappeal.com/sports/t..._58640518.

Add in Kedren and Godfrey and I think a lot of people are underestimating us.

We also brought in another 4 star guard with size.

My biggest concern isn't talent. It's early season chemistry.

If we lose to Wichita State it will be because they are the better team (right now), not because we didn't have the players capable of matching up with them.

(Edit) Also I love the fact Coach Pastner scheduled those 4 games in Canada. Add in the scrimmage and the exhibition and this team already has 6 games under it's belt.

We were missing Godfrey, Kedren, Nichols and Burrell in Canada. King and Iverson had to play a lot inside as did Hawkins. But I feel the players that needed to see where they were and get work did. Which was awesome.

Josh did everything right this off season! Including saving the scholarship :)!!!

Difference is that WSU has been playing together for a while.

(11-05-2014 04:18 PM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 01:59 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-04-2014 10:46 PM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  

(11-04-2014 10:14 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(11-04-2014 04:54 PM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  Yeah their back court is good. Ours was top 3 in the country last year on paper too.

Van Vleet is 6'0, Baker and Cotton go 6'3 each. If we stick some size on them we'll give them problems. I like this match up. Unless they all come out shooting 45%-50% from three I like our chances.

great post, I agree with this.

I wanted to break it down further but was on my phone typing that.

Basically I think it comes down to a few key players for me.

1. Pookie- Can he keep up with VanVleet for this game? VanVleet isn't the best scorer in the country, he's not the best shooter, he's not big, he's a pretty good passer. Doesn't sound too hard right? Wrong, what makes VanVleet special is his leadership, hitting big shots when needed and causing that annoying turnover when your team doesn't need it. If he gets left open on the perimeter there's a good chance he knocks it down. Pookie is much faster and has the potential to be a better player in TIME. As of right now He just needs to keep up with VanVleet. Don't get drawn into cheap fouls, stay in front of him, apply good pressure when asked too and knock down a good percentage of the shots he takes, I'm guessing something like 5-8. If he does that, we'll be good.

2. Kedren- If Kedren were 100%, I would give him the edge over any of Wichita State's guards. He's bigger and none of them would be able to stop him. IF he is in better shape and his head is focused on basketball and not his next song, he should be able to get into the lane EASILY against Wichita State what he does from there is my biggest concern. If he can dish it out to an open man, or hit a few floaters/layups he'll be fine. If he get's in and turns it over or takes bad contested shots we won't. Neither Baker or Van Vleet will beat Kedren off the dribble so he can handle them defensively, Cotton is the only guard Wichita State has that I am worried about Kedren guarding.

3. Burrell- If Burrell is as good as advertised then there is no one that plays for Wichita State that can stop him. He's a 6'7 guard/forward. If he's not then it'll end up hurting us. Everything I have heard is that, this guy is for real. He can guard any player Wichita State throws out there in the 1-3 positions.

4. Woodson- Can he stay in front of his man and knock down threes? If he can again we're golden.

We have the advantage inside at least for right now. So Nichols, Godfrey and Shaq should have big games when they're playing if the guards get them the ball.

The biggest thing for this team this season isn't that we're not great or that we're bad. We just don't know. Nobody really knows. If those 4 above stand out we're in great shape. Anything Iverson does as a new post player or Hawkins does will be a HUGE bonus.

We'll see :)!

GO TIGERS!

IF we are hitching our wagon to Woodson, Burrell and even Pookie, we are going to be in a lot of trouble. All we should hope for from all 3 is that they take care of the ball reasonably well and don't foul out. If they can hit a few open outside shots that will be a nice bonus. If they stay in the game and Wichita State's guards only outscore them by 20 points, we will be in very good shape.

If our guards can get them the ball, our frontline should hammer them.

Burrell is the #12 ranked Juco, Woodson a middle of the road high schooler and Pookie a fringe top 100 recruit; all playing their first ever D1 game. It will come down to whether our frontline or their backcourt dominate the game.

What do you think Wichita State is filled with?

VanVleet- from Rockford, Ill., and went to high school at Auburn High. He was a three-star prospect who also held offers from Kent State and Northern Illinois, but VanVleet's lack of size held him back. He still managed to rank No. 19 at his position and 138th nationally, and he was the only top-150 prospect in the Class of 2012 to land in the MVC.

Ron Baker- Was a 2 star recruit (NR) out of HS.

Cotton- 2 Star recruit (NR) in most rankings # 117 in 1 ranking.

Wichita State will be playing with 5 Juco's this season.

So using that to justify why our Juco's or top 100 recruits will struggle is just silly.

Also for what it's worth Early their best player last year is now playing with the NY Knicks. He was a 2 star out of high school and played for Sullivan County Community College before transferring to Wichita State. (JUCO)

I can't even believe I'm wasting time responding to this...

Matchup
VanVleet: JR, 11.6 points, 5.4 assists, 48.4% field goal, 41.8% 3 point
Pookie - Experience ZERO, Stats NA

Baker: JR, 13.1 points, 45.6% field goal, 38.0% 3 point
Woodson: Experience ZERO, Stats NA

Cotton: SR, 10.3 points, 45.2% field goal, 37.1% 3 point
Burrell: Experience ZERO, Stats NA

Just to clarify, you for serious are saying that because their players were not highly ranked out of high school/junior college THREE or FOUR years ago, that our new guys should be just as good as them right away?

That doesn't seem possible. I would like to see you type it again.

(11-05-2014 04:41 PM)tnzazz Wrote:  Difference is that WSU has been playing together for a while.

Shhhhhhhh...

(11-05-2014 04:43 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 04:18 PM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 01:59 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-04-2014 10:46 PM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  

(11-04-2014 10:14 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  great post, I agree with this.

I wanted to break it down further but was on my phone typing that.

Basically I think it comes down to a few key players for me.

1. Pookie- Can he keep up with VanVleet for this game? VanVleet isn't the best scorer in the country, he's not the best shooter, he's not big, he's a pretty good passer. Doesn't sound too hard right? Wrong, what makes VanVleet special is his leadership, hitting big shots when needed and causing that annoying turnover when your team doesn't need it. If he gets left open on the perimeter there's a good chance he knocks it down. Pookie is much faster and has the potential to be a better player in TIME. As of right now He just needs to keep up with VanVleet. Don't get drawn into cheap fouls, stay in front of him, apply good pressure when asked too and knock down a good percentage of the shots he takes, I'm guessing something like 5-8. If he does that, we'll be good.

2. Kedren- If Kedren were 100%, I would give him the edge over any of Wichita State's guards. He's bigger and none of them would be able to stop him. IF he is in better shape and his head is focused on basketball and not his next song, he should be able to get into the lane EASILY against Wichita State what he does from there is my biggest concern. If he can dish it out to an open man, or hit a few floaters/layups he'll be fine. If he get's in and turns it over or takes bad contested shots we won't. Neither Baker or Van Vleet will beat Kedren off the dribble so he can handle them defensively, Cotton is the only guard Wichita State has that I am worried about Kedren guarding.

3. Burrell- If Burrell is as good as advertised then there is no one that plays for Wichita State that can stop him. He's a 6'7 guard/forward. If he's not then it'll end up hurting us. Everything I have heard is that, this guy is for real. He can guard any player Wichita State throws out there in the 1-3 positions.

4. Woodson- Can he stay in front of his man and knock down threes? If he can again we're golden.

We have the advantage inside at least for right now. So Nichols, Godfrey and Shaq should have big games when they're playing if the guards get them the ball.

The biggest thing for this team this season isn't that we're not great or that we're bad. We just don't know. Nobody really knows. If those 4 above stand out we're in great shape. Anything Iverson does as a new post player or Hawkins does will be a HUGE bonus.

We'll see :)!

GO TIGERS!

IF we are hitching our wagon to Woodson, Burrell and even Pookie, we are going to be in a lot of trouble. All we should hope for from all 3 is that they take care of the ball reasonably well and don't foul out. If they can hit a few open outside shots that will be a nice bonus. If they stay in the game and Wichita State's guards only outscore them by 20 points, we will be in very good shape.

If our guards can get them the ball, our frontline should hammer them.

Burrell is the #12 ranked Juco, Woodson a middle of the road high schooler and Pookie a fringe top 100 recruit; all playing their first ever D1 game. It will come down to whether our frontline or their backcourt dominate the game.

What do you think Wichita State is filled with?

VanVleet- from Rockford, Ill., and went to high school at Auburn High. He was a three-star prospect who also held offers from Kent State and Northern Illinois, but VanVleet's lack of size held him back. He still managed to rank No. 19 at his position and 138th nationally, and he was the only top-150 prospect in the Class of 2012 to land in the MVC.

Ron Baker- Was a 2 star recruit (NR) out of HS.

Cotton- 2 Star recruit (NR) in most rankings # 117 in 1 ranking.

Wichita State will be playing with 5 Juco's this season.

So using that to justify why our Juco's or top 100 recruits will struggle is just silly.

Also for what it's worth Early their best player last year is now playing with the NY Knicks. He was a 2 star out of high school and played for Sullivan County Community College before transferring to Wichita State. (JUCO)

I can't even believe I'm wasting time responding to this...

Matchup
VanVleet: JR, 11.6 points, 5.4 assists, 48.4% field goal, 41.8% 3 point
Pookie - Experience ZERO, Stats NA

Baker: JR, 13.1 points, 45.6% field goal, 38.0% 3 point
Woodson: Experience ZERO, Stats NA

Cotton: SR, 10.3 points, 45.2% field goal, 37.1% 3 point
Burrell: Experience ZERO, Stats NA

Just to clarify, you for serious are saying that because their players were not highly ranked out of high school/junior college THREE or FOUR years ago, that our new guys should be just as good as them right away?

That doesn't seem possible. I would like to see you type it again.

Of course not, what I'm saying is don't count them out.

None of their players were highly recruited and 5 of them were JUCO's.

They have been good since the moment they stepped on campus.

I think you are confusing my post. I'm not saying Pookie will handle VanVleet and in my original post you'll see that. I'm saying Pookie could be better than you expect and just because he's only ranked in the 90's out of HS doesn't mean we should just assume a good game for him will be knocking down a couple of shots.

Same with Burrell and Woodson.

(11-05-2014 04:44 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 04:41 PM)tnzazz Wrote:  Difference is that WSU has been playing together for a while.

Shhhhhhhh...

I have already stated this. For someone who is such a grammar nazi, you sure don't read well.

(11-05-2014 04:31 PM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  Long story short we have 3 VERY good JUCO players.

Burrell avg 25.2 PPG, 7.5 RPG, 5.6 APG. ( Offers from Memphis, SMU, Oklahoma State, Alabama, Arizona State, Baylor, USF, Texas A&M, and Washington State.)

He was also top 5 http://www.commercialappeal.com/sports/t..._58640518.

Add in Kedren and Godfrey and I think a lot of people are underestimating us.

We also brought in another 4 star guard with size.

My biggest concern isn't talent. It's early season chemistry.

If we lose to Wichita State it will be because they are the better team (right now), not because we didn't have the players capable of matching up with them.

(Edit) Also I love the fact Coach Pastner scheduled those 4 games in Canada. Add in the scrimmage and the exhibition and this team already has 6 games under it's belt.

We were missing Godfrey, Kedren, Nichols and Burrell in Canada. King and Iverson had to play a lot inside as did Hawkins. But I feel the players that needed to see where they were and get work did. Which was awesome.

Josh did everything right this off season! Including saving the scholarship :)!!!

Here you go Stammers!

(11-05-2014 04:48 PM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 04:43 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 04:18 PM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 01:59 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-04-2014 10:46 PM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  I wanted to break it down further but was on my phone typing that.

Basically I think it comes down to a few key players for me.

1. Pookie- Can he keep up with VanVleet for this game? VanVleet isn't the best scorer in the country, he's not the best shooter, he's not big, he's a pretty good passer. Doesn't sound too hard right? Wrong, what makes VanVleet special is his leadership, hitting big shots when needed and causing that annoying turnover when your team doesn't need it. If he gets left open on the perimeter there's a good chance he knocks it down. Pookie is much faster and has the potential to be a better player in TIME. As of right now He just needs to keep up with VanVleet. Don't get drawn into cheap fouls, stay in front of him, apply good pressure when asked too and knock down a good percentage of the shots he takes, I'm guessing something like 5-8. If he does that, we'll be good.

2. Kedren- If Kedren were 100%, I would give him the edge over any of Wichita State's guards. He's bigger and none of them would be able to stop him. IF he is in better shape and his head is focused on basketball and not his next song, he should be able to get into the lane EASILY against Wichita State what he does from there is my biggest concern. If he can dish it out to an open man, or hit a few floaters/layups he'll be fine. If he get's in and turns it over or takes bad contested shots we won't. Neither Baker or Van Vleet will beat Kedren off the dribble so he can handle them defensively, Cotton is the only guard Wichita State has that I am worried about Kedren guarding.

3. Burrell- If Burrell is as good as advertised then there is no one that plays for Wichita State that can stop him. He's a 6'7 guard/forward. If he's not then it'll end up hurting us. Everything I have heard is that, this guy is for real. He can guard any player Wichita State throws out there in the 1-3 positions.

4. Woodson- Can he stay in front of his man and knock down threes? If he can again we're golden.

We have the advantage inside at least for right now. So Nichols, Godfrey and Shaq should have big games when they're playing if the guards get them the ball.

The biggest thing for this team this season isn't that we're not great or that we're bad. We just don't know. Nobody really knows. If those 4 above stand out we're in great shape. Anything Iverson does as a new post player or Hawkins does will be a HUGE bonus.

We'll see :)!

GO TIGERS!

IF we are hitching our wagon to Woodson, Burrell and even Pookie, we are going to be in a lot of trouble. All we should hope for from all 3 is that they take care of the ball reasonably well and don't foul out. If they can hit a few open outside shots that will be a nice bonus. If they stay in the game and Wichita State's guards only outscore them by 20 points, we will be in very good shape.

If our guards can get them the ball, our frontline should hammer them.

Burrell is the #12 ranked Juco, Woodson a middle of the road high schooler and Pookie a fringe top 100 recruit; all playing their first ever D1 game. It will come down to whether our frontline or their backcourt dominate the game.

What do you think Wichita State is filled with?

VanVleet- from Rockford, Ill., and went to high school at Auburn High. He was a three-star prospect who also held offers from Kent State and Northern Illinois, but VanVleet's lack of size held him back. He still managed to rank No. 19 at his position and 138th nationally, and he was the only top-150 prospect in the Class of 2012 to land in the MVC.

Ron Baker- Was a 2 star recruit (NR) out of HS.

Cotton- 2 Star recruit (NR) in most rankings # 117 in 1 ranking.

Wichita State will be playing with 5 Juco's this season.

So using that to justify why our Juco's or top 100 recruits will struggle is just silly.

Also for what it's worth Early their best player last year is now playing with the NY Knicks. He was a 2 star out of high school and played for Sullivan County Community College before transferring to Wichita State. (JUCO)

I can't even believe I'm wasting time responding to this...

Matchup
VanVleet: JR, 11.6 points, 5.4 assists, 48.4% field goal, 41.8% 3 point
Pookie - Experience ZERO, Stats NA

Baker: JR, 13.1 points, 45.6% field goal, 38.0% 3 point
Woodson: Experience ZERO, Stats NA

Cotton: SR, 10.3 points, 45.2% field goal, 37.1% 3 point
Burrell: Experience ZERO, Stats NA

Just to clarify, you for serious are saying that because their players were not highly ranked out of high school/junior college THREE or FOUR years ago, that our new guys should be just as good as them right away?

That doesn't seem possible. I would like to see you type it again.

Of course not, what I'm saying is don't count them out.

None of their players were highly recruited and 5 of them were JUCO's.

They have been good since the moment they stepped on campus.

I think you are confusing my post. I'm not saying Pookie will handle VanVleet and in my original post you'll see that. I'm saying Pookie could be better than you expect and just because he's only ranked in the 90's out of HS doesn't mean we should just assume a good game for him will be knocking down a couple of shots.

Same with Burrell and Woodson.

You are half dreaming, half making stuff up. I would be happy to get the same first year production out of our 3 players that Wichita State got out of Baker his first season.

Quote:None of their players were highly recruited and 5 of them were JUCO's. They have been good since the moment they stepped on campus.

Baker - 8.7 points, 39.8% field goal, 35.7% 3 point
VanVleet - 4.3 points, 38.6% field goal, 40.8% 3 point
Cotton - 2.9 points, 50.8% field goal, 34.8% 3 point

Since They Set Foot On Campus
Year 1
15.9 points, 4.8 assists (5.3 points, 1.6 assists)

2014
35.0 points, 10.9 assists (11.7 points, 3.6 assists)

You just completely blew your own argument out of the water. Thank you for saving me the trouble. Now I can thank you.

(11-05-2014 04:49 PM)Tigermaniac Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 04:44 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 04:41 PM)tnzazz Wrote:  Difference is that WSU has been playing together for a while.

Shhhhhhhh...

I have already stated this. For someone who is such a grammar nazi, you sure don't read well.

I don't know what any of this has to do with gram...never mind. I will try and improve my reading grammar.

(11-05-2014 09:26 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 07:05 AM)ItsDude Wrote:  3 point shooting it the key...the lack of it on our end and having to guard it on their end. We're going to have to score a lot more 2 point goals.

Kedren was pretty good last year with a horrible frontline at Vandy that didn't create any space for him. Pookie has very deep range and should be good if he doesn't force shots. Woodson easily has the best form on the team and should be pretty good. King is the wildcard. He was a very good long range shooter in high school and got off to a horrible start last year. I think he should be pretty good.

The bottom line is that we have a proven pure point guard and another natural point guard on the roster; and I would think that worst case scenario, we won't shoot threes as poorly as JJ and Geron did last year.

A few things have to fall the right way for us; but I don't see us being worse from outside than we were last year.

King was 4-9 from 3 in his first 10 games. That's 44.4%. He was 1-7 after that. I think that King's problem last year with 3's was that if he missed one he wouldn't take another one. Part of that was probably being nervous about getting yanked. Hopefully he can make both 3's and FT's this year.

(11-05-2014 04:41 PM)tnzazz Wrote:  Difference is that WSU has been playing together for a while.

Since the Final Four run, they've lost their two best bigs in Carl Hall and Cleanthony Early (NBA draft choice) and Malcolm Armstead was a very good PG, who was instrumental in that Final Four run.

Memphis had the Canada trip to build cohesion and work on things, they have experience at key positions, the deeper and more experienced frontcourt (PF and C), and a more talented roster from top to bottom (according to rankings).

I respect Marshall and what he's done at Wichita, but the game should be much more competitive than some are acting.

(11-05-2014 05:37 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 04:41 PM)tnzazz Wrote:  Difference is that WSU has been playing together for a while.

Since the Final Four run, they've lost their two best bigs in Carl Hall and Cleanthony Early (NBA draft choice) and Malcolm Armstead was a very good PG, who was instrumental in that Final Four run.

Memphis had the Canada trip to build cohesion and work on things, they have experience at key positions, the deeper and more experienced frontcourt (PF and C), and a more talented roster from top to bottom (according to rankings).

I respect Marshall and what he's done at Wichita, but the game should be much more competitive than some are acting.

Hey, I really enjoy being the miserable, while you're the sunshine pumper.

Or maybe you're just setting our team up to take a fall, when we don't win.

To be clear, I think we could win. But WSU will be the favorite, and if we don't play well, we could easily lose by 10, or even more.

Who hits that big Chris Crawford 3 this year? Sometimes those shots just kept us in a game when nothing else was going right....if King is doing that, he better be playing the 3.....