(11-03-2014 02:52 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  Manziel would call the plays that were sent in more than Romo does. Martin is great and probably will contribute to make that line one of the best in the NFL in another couple of years.

But I'd still take Manziel, Texas boy, Heisman winner and the gift to make something out of nothing, a bit like Romo, but faster and a stronger arm. Weeden is 5-16 as a starter for a reason, I can't believe no one took that into account when they acquired him.

So would Jerry Jones.

Its says a lot about why the Cowboys have one playoff win in 16 years.

(11-03-2014 03:22 PM)Phillip26r Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 02:52 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 11:55 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 11:48 AM)Phillip26r Wrote:  You can't have the running game we had in games 1-7 if you take Manziel instead of Martin. I like that we passed on Manziel - we even passed on him at the trade deadline.

Orton wasn't going to work. You can't just decide to keep a guy who isn't going to play for you. He was gone as soon as the horn sounded in Week 17 last year.

Weeden is nowhere near as good as Romo, but he's not as bad as he played yesterday either. If he has to play the whole game against the Jags, I'd say our chances of winning are about 50/50. Resting Romo would probably be the best thing, but I think he will probably play some against the Jags.

It is time, in my opinion, to draft a quarterback. I would probably draft one in the middle rounds in 2015.

Anyone arguing we should have taken Manziel over Martin, who is by far the best rookie OL in the NFL, simply doesn't understand football beyond the fantasy FB realm. That should not even be taken as a serious discussion at this point.

I agree there is no way Weedon is truly as bad as he played Sunday, but its too late now. Its done and he was beyond awful. I imagine the team has lost ALL confidence in him now.

We could and might very well take a mid round QB, I just wouldn't hold my breath for a 1st round type investment (some think we might LOL). We haven't done that since 1989. Too many other needs on defense and they have a guy they are developing already.

We will either take a mid/low round QB or look to sign another FA imo. If Vaughn is progressing and looks good in the spring and summer, they may just go with him as the 2nd string guy next year. They've already invested a roster spot from him to just sit this whole year. The next step is to make him the backup.

Manziel would call the plays that were sent in more than Romo does. Martin is great and probably will contribute to make that line one of the best in the NFL in another couple of years.

But I'd still take Manziel, Texas boy, Heisman winner and the gift to make something out of nothing, a bit like Romo, but faster and a stronger arm. Weeden is 5-16 as a starter for a reason, I can't believe no one took that into account when they acquired him.

So basically you'd manage the team like Jerry used to?

You really believe that? Since the new stadium was built that takes up 90% of Jerry's time and drinking Johnny Walker Blue takes up the rest.

(11-03-2014 02:54 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 11:30 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 09:35 AM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(11-02-2014 07:32 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Orton rode the bench for 2 full years behind Romo and got 1 start in the final game last year.

He just wasn't willing to sit out 14+ games of yet another season as a backup. I don't blame him for getting out of the situation. He's 32 and doesn't have much time left being a journeyman like he is. Its now or never for him.

There is more to it than that. He should have been smart enough to know that the odds of Romo making it through this season without getting hurt were slim. Local talk radio have uncovered other reasons why Orton wanted to leave Dallas.

such as?

He just didn't like it here, made no friends on the squad and as someone below says he probably wanted a shot at starting somewhere, which he is now. As long as Jerry owns the Cowboys and Romo can still walk, he's going to be the guy.

That is not it at all.
Orton didn't like the power struggle between Jason Garrett and offensive coordinator Bill Callahan.
Jerry Jones had stripped Garrett of play calling duties...and handed them over to Callahan. Callahan has a background in West Coast offenses....but Dallas' offense is more rhythm based...and his handling of it was an abysmal failure...to the extent that Jason Garrett started calling plays again before the season was over.
Garrett was able in the offseason to convince Jerry Jones to hire someone to call the plays...someone he trusted...Scott Linehan.
Garrett knew Linehan from their Miami Dolphin days on Nick Saban's staff.
As far as friends go...Orton was very close to QBs coach Wade Wilson.
Wilson had been his position coach when they were with the Chicago Bears.

As far as qbs go..I cannot believe they let Stephen McGee go.
I thought he had a bright future in Dallas if he stayed.

(11-03-2014 08:15 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  As far as qbs go..I cannot believe they let Stephen McGee go.
I thought he had a bright future in Dallas if he stayed.

McGee can't even make a practice roster. He's a 3rd stringer in the Canadian leauge now.

Weakest arm I've seen since Jason Garrett.

His best statistical season in 4 full years as a starter at A&M was a whopping 12 TD passes. He had a strong arm at the HS level, average arm at the college level and well below average at the NFL level. He's just too limited to challenge a defense downfield, and that's what we need to balance our ground game.

I get were you are coming from though. It was hard not to root for the guy, I liked him a lot too.

(11-03-2014 08:12 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 02:54 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 11:30 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 09:35 AM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(11-02-2014 07:32 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Orton rode the bench for 2 full years behind Romo and got 1 start in the final game last year.

He just wasn't willing to sit out 14+ games of yet another season as a backup. I don't blame him for getting out of the situation. He's 32 and doesn't have much time left being a journeyman like he is. Its now or never for him.

There is more to it than that. He should have been smart enough to know that the odds of Romo making it through this season without getting hurt were slim. Local talk radio have uncovered other reasons why Orton wanted to leave Dallas.

such as?

He just didn't like it here, made no friends on the squad and as someone below says he probably wanted a shot at starting somewhere, which he is now. As long as Jerry owns the Cowboys and Romo can still walk, he's going to be the guy.

That is not it at all.
Orton didn't like the power struggle between Jason Garrett and offensive coordinator Bill Callahan.
Jerry Jones had stripped Garrett of play calling duties...and handed them over to Callahan. Callahan has a background in West Coast offenses....but Dallas' offense is more rhythm based...and his handling of it was an abysmal failure...to the extent that Jason Garrett started calling plays again before the season was over.
Garrett was able in the offseason to convince Jerry Jones to hire someone to call the plays...someone he trusted...Scott Linehan.
Garrett knew Linehan from their Miami Dolphin days on Nick Saban's staff.
As far as friends go...Orton was very close to QBs coach Wade Wilson.
Wilson had been his position coach when they were with the Chicago Bears.

Good stuff, and when I said he didn't like it here, that was pretty much in line with everything you just detailed.

(11-04-2014 01:40 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  Good stuff, and when I said he didn't like it here, that was pretty much in line with everything you just detailed.

Actually its just a bunch of nothing that Orton's agent floated to some small sports radio show in Dallas while they were trying to get out of his contract in the summer. It didn't make any sense when I heard it back then and it makes even less now.

The backup QB has nothing to do with the the offensive philosophy, game planning or playcalling, and the QB coaches spend 95% of their time with the starter anyway. All the backup QB generally does during the season is run the scout team. He really doesn't even get snaps with the 1st team offense after the pre season ends. Callahan had already stop calling the plays several games before Orton started in the season finale. Furthermore neither Garrett or Callahan were slated to call the plays this season anyway, and Garrett is less directly involved with the offense than ever before now, so this was all a non issue going into this season.

Orton wanted to play football this year, not sit around and hope for 1 or 2 games.

He was under contract and JJ wanted him to honor the final season of it this year. Orton didn't want to wait, so a power struggle played out for several weeks until the cowboys relented and let him go. Orton had stopped returning calls all off season from everyone in Dallas including his long time friend Wade Wilson, who expressed disappointment in his lack of contact and skipping the entire off season programs. Garrett, Wilson, Callahan, Linehan, JJ all wanted him back this year. He threatened to retire but he would have owed the cowboys a 3.25 million dollar signing bonus if he had, so it was a sticky situation. He wanted out but didn't want to repay the 3 mill. In the end, Dallas just cut him.

That is really the truth of the matter.

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/2014/0...hape.html/

(11-03-2014 03:51 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 02:52 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  Manziel would call the plays that were sent in more than Romo does. Martin is great and probably will contribute to make that line one of the best in the NFL in another couple of years.

But I'd still take Manziel, Texas boy, Heisman winner and the gift to make something out of nothing, a bit like Romo, but faster and a stronger arm. Weeden is 5-16 as a starter for a reason, I can't believe no one took that into account when they acquired him.

So would Jerry Jones.

Its says a lot about why the Cowboys have one playoff win in 16 years.

And that is what made me chuckle in the OP assertion that they'll need him for a serious playoff run.

It's still Romo, folks. snicker

(11-04-2014 05:11 PM)Willie Becton Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 03:51 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 02:52 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  Manziel would call the plays that were sent in more than Romo does. Martin is great and probably will contribute to make that line one of the best in the NFL in another couple of years.

But I'd still take Manziel, Texas boy, Heisman winner and the gift to make something out of nothing, a bit like Romo, but faster and a stronger arm. Weeden is 5-16 as a starter for a reason, I can't believe no one took that into account when they acquired him.

So would Jerry Jones.

Its says a lot about why the Cowboys have one playoff win in 16 years.

And that is what made me chuckle in the OP assertion that they'll need him for a serious playoff run.

It's still Romo, folks. snicker

Right. There was a thread back in the summer where I was fussing about how often Romo got hurt and then someone came and posted how few games he has missed in his career.

But the fact is that now he has missed games in four of the last six years. He has hurt his back now three years in a row. And if they can't win without him and are only .500 with him, that's not a good investment.

(11-04-2014 05:17 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  Right. There was a thread back in the summer where I was fussing about how often Romo got hurt and then someone came and posted how few games he has missed in his career.

Actually I posted that and I was right on point when I did.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-695702.html

No one ever said Romo doesn't get hurt, I'm just pointing out the fact that he misses about the same number of games that most HOF QB's do.

Romo has missed just 2 starts in 4 full years. He's started all 16 games several different times.

For some perspective, lets take a look at a long list of HOF caliber QB's who missed more games than Romo...

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Joe Montana
Troy Aikman
John Elway
Roger Staubach
Dan Marino
Steve Young
John Unitas
Bart Starr
Terry Bradshaw
Jim Kelly
Dan Fouts
Steve McNair
Warren Moon
Donovan McNabb
Boomer Esiason
Kurt Warner
Carson Palmer

even Kyle Orton ironically

That list is a who's who of famous NFL QB legends.

Romo misses right about the same number of games that the overwhelming majority of HOF QB's have. About 1 game a year on average. If that is injury prone, then so were all those other HOF QB's. Guys like Elway, Montana, Bradshaw, Staubach, Young, Unitas, Moon, Kelly, Aikman, Starr, Fouts, and Warner all sat with injuries at least 1 game a season most of their careers.

The numbers don't lie. Truth be told, its a miracle Romo has not missed a lot more time with the terrible O line, run game and defense has had for most of his career.

As fans, we are often guilty of a myopic view of our team and struggle to keep what happens with our team in the proper perspective of NFL reality. Its like we say about the tigers....the fans often think everything negative that happens is unique to us and everything positive is just normal business for everyone else.

Injuries are a part of football, and Romo is not injured an unusual amount or anything out of the norm for a franchise QB.

(11-05-2014 03:23 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-04-2014 05:17 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  Right. There was a thread back in the summer where I was fussing about how often Romo got hurt and then someone came and posted how few games he has missed in his career.

Actually I posted that and I was right on point when I did.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-695702.html

No one ever said Romo doesn't get hurt, I'm just pointing out the fact that he misses about the same number of games that most HOF QB's do.

Romo has missed just 2 starts in 4 full years. He's started all 16 games several different times.

For some perspective, lets take a look at a long list of HOF caliber QB's who missed more games than Romo...

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Joe Montana
Troy Aikman
John Elway
Roger Staubach
Dan Marino
Steve Young
John Unitas
Bart Starr
Terry Bradshaw
Jim Kelly
Dan Fouts
Steve McNair
Warren Moon
Donovan McNabb
Boomer Esiason
Kurt Warner
Carson Palmer

even Kyle Orton ironically

That list is a who's who of famous NFL QB legends.

Romo misses right about the same number of games that the overwhelming majority of HOF QB's have. About 1 game a year on average. If that is injury prone, then so were all those other HOF QB's. Guys like Elway, Montana, Bradshaw, Staubach, Young, Unitas, Moon, Kelly, Aikman, Starr, Fouts, and Warner all sat with injuries at least 1 game a season most of their careers.

The numbers don't lie. Truth be told, its a miracle Romo has not missed a lot more time with the terrible O line, run game and defense has had for most of his career.

As fans, we are often guilty of a myopic view of our team and struggle to keep what happens with our team in the proper perspective of NFL reality. Its like we say about the tigers....the fans often think everything negative that happens is unique to us and everything positive is just normal business for everyone else.

Injuries are a part of football, and Romo is not injured an unusual amount or anything out of the norm for a franchise QB.

I appreciate your research, I realize all of those quarterbacks have been hurt at one time or another. But I say he plays hurt more than he should which affects his ability. The running game got the Cowboys to 6-1 and Arizona was able to stop that knowing Weeden couldn't throw. If Romo plays "hurt" the rest of the year the other teams will blitz him all day like the Redskins did. His mobility has always been one of his best assets and without that he is a sitting duck.

(11-05-2014 09:57 AM)Tiger46 Wrote:  I appreciate your research, I realize all of those quarterbacks have been hurt at one time or another. But I say he plays hurt more than he should which affects his ability. The running game got the Cowboys to 6-1 and Arizona was able to stop that knowing Weeden couldn't throw. If Romo plays "hurt" the rest of the year the other teams will blitz him all day like the Redskins did. His mobility has always been one of his best assets and without that he is a sitting duck.

I agree with that. We've never protected him well and he gets hit way too much. And Romo is a guy who naturally gets rid of the ball quickly and can seriously avoid pressure, so he should be very difficult to get sacks or hits against at all. But we just haven't protected him well. Never really have.

I think its important to understand though that his previous back issues seem to be healing now. He was looking very mobile and loose the last several games. He was playing at an extremely high level.

The knee to the back is just part of football and it happens. But connecting it to his other back issue is what we need to remember not to do.

He's not a historic iron man like Farve, and our O line is awesome strong but inexperienced and that can show up in pass protection when teams get creative and send overload blitz packages.

In a lot of ways, facing this adversity in pass protection early in the year is good because it gives the young linemen time to learn from and clean up their mistakes. Its a lot better than keeping these issues hid until the playoffs and having a strong team expose it then.

Last night, Romo was only able to muster 275 yds, 4 TDs, 0 INts, and 1 game winning 4th qtr drive.

(11-24-2014 02:35 PM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  Last night, Romo was only able to muster 275 yds, 4 TDs, 0 INts, and 1 game winning 4th qtr drive.

He did look good. Amazing what an open date can do for injuries.

(11-24-2014 04:18 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(11-24-2014 02:35 PM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  Last night, Romo was only able to muster 275 yds, 4 TDs, 0 INts, and 1 game winning 4th qtr drive.

He did look good. Amazing what an open date can do for injuries.

Also amazing what a good offensive line can do.
Did you see the kind of time he had on that last drive?
2 of those plays on the game winning drive...Romo is just standing there dancing in place looking for someone open.
In one case it was over 7.5 seconds....the other pass play was over 8.8(?) seconds.
That is a ridiculous amount of time for a qb to have to get rid of a ball.

(11-25-2014 10:33 AM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  

(11-24-2014 04:18 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(11-24-2014 02:35 PM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  Last night, Romo was only able to muster 275 yds, 4 TDs, 0 INts, and 1 game winning 4th qtr drive.

He did look good. Amazing what an open date can do for injuries.

Also amazing what a good offensive line can do.
Did you see the kind of time he had on that last drive?
2 of those plays on the game winning drive...Romo is just standing there dancing in place looking for someone open.
In one case it was over 7.5 seconds....the other pass play was over 8.8(?) seconds.
That is a ridiculous amount of time for a qb to have to get rid of a ball.

Saw a great still frame pic of Romo in the pocket on the winning TD pass. Leary's man never even got off the line of scrimmage. The pocket is formed (Smith and Free manhandled JPP and Kiwanuka on the edges) with Romo 7-8 yds deep and Leary has his man at a stand still at the line. Also, Zach Martin may be the best down field blocking OL that Dallas has ever had and yes, I am including Larry Allen. Martin is amazing on screens.

(11-25-2014 01:24 PM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  

(11-25-2014 10:33 AM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  

(11-24-2014 04:18 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(11-24-2014 02:35 PM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  Last night, Romo was only able to muster 275 yds, 4 TDs, 0 INts, and 1 game winning 4th qtr drive.

He did look good. Amazing what an open date can do for injuries.

Also amazing what a good offensive line can do.
Did you see the kind of time he had on that last drive?
2 of those plays on the game winning drive...Romo is just standing there dancing in place looking for someone open.
In one case it was over 7.5 seconds....the other pass play was over 8.8(?) seconds.
That is a ridiculous amount of time for a qb to have to get rid of a ball.

Saw a great still frame pic of Romo in the pocket on the winning TD pass. Leary's man never even got off the line of scrimmage. The pocket is formed (Smith and Free manhandled JPP and Kiwanuka on the edges) with Romo 7-8 yds deep and Leary has his man at a stand still at the line. Also, Zach Martin may be the best down field blocking OL that Dallas has ever had and yes, I am including Larry Allen. Martin is amazing on screens.

The Cowboys have definitely built the future with the OL they have drafted the last three years and they have all played immediately. Our own Ron Leary is doing very well as a member of that line.

The talk shows here have been comparing this line to the legacy Cowboy lines of dynasties past. Gotta get a ring to be in the hunt.

(11-25-2014 01:24 PM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  Saw a great still frame pic of Romo in the pocket on the winning TD pass. Leary's man never even got off the line of scrimmage. The pocket is formed (Smith and Free manhandled JPP and Kiwanuka on the edges) with Romo 7-8 yds deep and Leary has his man at a stand still at the line. Also, Zach Martin may be the best down field blocking OL that Dallas has ever had and yes, I am including Larry Allen. Martin is amazing on screens.

Pump those brakes a bit bro.

No one is more high on Martin than I am. I actually think he is already our best offensive lineman (inducing Tyron Smith). Smith is a perennial pro bowler so that is a REMARKABLE accomplishment for just a rookie. Martin is the NFL offensive rookie of the year imo. He is the best player on the best offensive line in football.

But lets not get carried away and say he is playing at a Larry Allen level as as rookie.

Larry was one of the greatest interior AND screen blockers of all time.

Most dominate guard in NFL history imo.