To each their own, there's no right or wrong answer. I was just seeing if anyone else felt that way.

It's an opinion. Everybody has one.

It usually takes some sustained success along the way prior to winning a championship - even Jordan's Bulls had been knocking on the door of the NBA Finals for a few years, only to have Detroit standing in their way. Most teams have a hard time playing at a consistently high level long enough to groom a champion. The NFL has become especially bad with this, but historically baseball has been the worst offender.

(10-31-2014 10:54 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  In the NBA, only two teams not named the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Spurs, Pistons, Rockets, Heat (the Sixers, Mavericks) have won championships since 1980 and even those two have a combined six Finals appearances in that time frame. Along with the rest, they have over 80% of the Finals appearances in the last 35 seasons, including ALL of the 1980's.

Or to say it another way, a third of the teams have won a world championship in the last 35 years? Same stat, but sounds much different.

(10-31-2014 10:54 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The NFL is not much better, as the Steelers, Patriots, Giants, Packers, Redskins, Cowboys, Raiders, Broncos, Dolphins, Colts and 49ers have combined to win 39 of a possible 48 Super Bowls

Again, that is also more than 1/3 of the teams. Even further, only 4 teams have never been to the Super Bowl: The Jacksonville Jaguars, the Houston Texans, the Cleveland Browns, and the Detroit Lions. If you consider the Browns to Ravens history as one franchise for this argument (since the core of the last old Browns team in Cleveland and the next year's draft picks made up the core of the Ravens first Super Bowl team), that is three franchises that are expansion teams with less than 20 years of history, and the Detroit Lions (who have a few NFL championships prior to the merger, as do the Browns). Everyone else has been at least once. And we are only talking about 48

(11-01-2014 01:24 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  It usually takes some sustained success along the way prior to winning a championship - even Jordan's Bulls had been knocking on the door of the NBA Finals for a few years, only to have Detroit standing in their way. Most teams have a hard time playing at a consistently high level long enough to groom a champion. The NFL has become especially bad with this, but historically baseball has been the worst offender.

Jordan's Bulls also had to tangle with the Larry Bird Celtics a few times as well. Baseball has historically been the worst offender, but the last 15 years or so we've seen other franchises make postseason runs: Cleveland and Oakland both advanced to LCS's, the Rockies and Rays played in the World Series, Texas had two consecutive WS appearances, Kansas City in this year's Series. Arizona won a WS in '01, the Angels in '02, Marlins '03, etc.

(11-01-2014 12:57 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  

(11-01-2014 12:19 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  But some teams never contend, not even when really good.

Who doesn't compete "even when really good"

What I'm saying is that even when teams get good enough to possibly win a championship, they still don't come close, like the Texans the past couple years or the Barry Sanders Lions.

(11-02-2014 05:28 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  [quote='CoogNellie' pid='11314203' dateline='1414821429']


What I'm saying is that even when teams get good enough to possibly win a championship, they still don't come close, like the Texans the past couple years or the Barry Sanders Lions.

In reality you have to look really,really deep to find a team from the three major sports leagues (I leave out NHL because I don't follow it) who ha snot had a championship caliber team in the last 25 - 30 years. Even the expansion teams save for the Houston Texans (last season's pre-season super hola favorites).

(11-02-2014 09:57 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-02-2014 05:28 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  [quote='CoogNellie' pid='11314203' dateline='1414821429']


What I'm saying is that even when teams get good enough to possibly win a championship, they still don't come close, like the Texans the past couple years or the Barry Sanders Lions.

In reality you have to look really,really deep to find a team from the three major sports leagues (I leave out NHL because I don't follow it) who ha snot had a championship caliber team in the last 25 - 30 years. Even the expansion teams save for the Houston Texans (last season's pre-season super hola favorites).

Well in support of your comment, since 1990, 13 of the 15 American league teams have made the World Series. Everyone but Seattle and Baltimore. Baltimore has been a victim of the Yankees and Red Sox, as the Orioles have had some good teams. Its not quite as good in the National League, only 10 of 15, and Cincinnati was in 1990. Washington, Pittsburg, Cubs, Milwaukee and LA haven't made it.

However, many of these have 1 good year and then the Yankees or Red Sox get their players. Meanwhile the Braves had 12 straight years winning their division and 15 out of 16. St. Louis has finished first 8 of the last 15 years and 2nd 4 other times in their division. It has seemed to balance out a little the last 2 or 3 years. Kansas City hadn't made it since the mid 80s. Pittsburg is starting to at least contend for the playoffs. Cincinnati has recovered from a couple decades of ineptitude.

It's funny that the Cardinals are mentioned in the sense that their stake at the top of the National League left town when Tony LaRussa retired. No rings and 1 WS wipeout since Tony moved on.

Mike Matheny is a train wreck in progress.

(11-01-2014 01:24 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  It usually takes some sustained success along the way prior to winning a championship - even Jordan's Bulls had been knocking on the door of the NBA Finals for a few years, only to have Detroit standing in their way. Most teams have a hard time playing at a consistently high level long enough to groom a champion. The NFL has become especially bad with this, but historically baseball has been the worst offender.

But you have to go way back in baseball history for your "worst offender" comment to hold water. The Yankees dominated baseball for 40 years, 1923-62, winning half the championships, but in the last 50 years baseball has been as wide open as any sport and certainly more so than the NBA.

(11-03-2014 11:20 AM)LouPower Wrote:  It's funny that the Cardinals are mentioned in the sense that their stake at the top of the National League left town when Tony LaRussa retired. No rings and 1 WS wipeout since Tony moved on.

Mike Matheny is a train wreck in progress.

So three seasons that feature one WS appearance and three NLCS appearances while facing the loss of a Hall of Famer and a career ending injury to an outstanding pitcher is a "train wreck in progress"? Sign me up for that failure!

(11-03-2014 01:01 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  So three seasons that feature one WS appearance and three NLCS appearances while facing the loss of a Hall of Famer and a career ending injury to an outstanding pitcher is a "train wreck in progress"? Sign me up for that failure!

Doesn't that success during the last three years ALSO coincide with losing Albert Pujols? Yeah, they suck...

(11-03-2014 01:01 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 11:20 AM)LouPower Wrote:  It's funny that the Cardinals are mentioned in the sense that their stake at the top of the National League left town when Tony LaRussa retired. No rings and 1 WS wipeout since Tony moved on.

Mike Matheny is a train wreck in progress.

So three seasons that feature one WS appearance and three NLCS appearances while facing the loss of a Hall of Famer and a career ending injury to an outstanding pitcher is a "train wreck in progress"? Sign me up for that failure!

Three seasons under a complete idiot who was handed a World Champion. He has as many rings as you do (assuming you don't have one yourself). He got one of the easiest jobs out there and has been a complete disaster at it.

He's also the reason we can no longer say "any idiot can manage the St. Louis Cardinals"; because that idiot can't. St. Louis is really only passionate about baseball, and there aren't many Cardinal fans left that think 4 LCS trips in a row (with 1 title) is a big deal. There's a lot expected from that franchise.

But he wasn't really "handed" a world series champion, unless you consider a team minus Albert Pujols, and later Raphael Furcal, and Lance Burkman and some pitchers to be the same team? I mean those are sort of glaring omissions there. Especially since it's not as though the championship team in 2011 was killing people, seeing as how they lost their division by a WIDE margin. They were a wild card team who got hot at the right time. I am not really sure what was being expected there, but this sounds utterly ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous.

(11-03-2014 02:11 PM)LouPower Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 01:01 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 11:20 AM)LouPower Wrote:  It's funny that the Cardinals are mentioned in the sense that their stake at the top of the National League left town when Tony LaRussa retired. No rings and 1 WS wipeout since Tony moved on.

Mike Matheny is a train wreck in progress.

So three seasons that feature one WS appearance and three NLCS appearances while facing the loss of a Hall of Famer and a career ending injury to an outstanding pitcher is a "train wreck in progress"? Sign me up for that failure!

Three seasons under a complete idiot who was handed a World Champion. He has as many rings as you do (assuming you don't have one yourself). He got one of the easiest jobs out there and has been a complete disaster at it.

He's also the reason we can no longer say "any idiot can manage the St. Louis Cardinals"; because that idiot can't. St. Louis is really only passionate about baseball, and there aren't many Cardinal fans left that think 4 LCS trips in a row (with 1 title) is a big deal. There's a lot expected from that franchise.

I think you're severly overestimating how much talent the Cardinals really have. On paper, I'd say they are third or fourth best in the NL and most metrics back that. I think you guys are just spoiled. You're acting like they are the '27 Yankees managed by a bafoon.

(11-01-2014 12:19 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  But some teams never contend, not even when really good.

I think that comes to a money issue.

Salary Caps, rosters, financial philosophies, revenue streams ect....

How much do you take in.... how much do you spend... how committed are you to spending what it takes to advance.... the catch is "Moneyball" and "buy the house" styles of stocking your roster don't always give you the "best team."

As for Pro Sports, I think playoff births are a measuring stick more so that titles/finals. Then I'd say divisional titles. Conference titles after that.

(11-03-2014 11:20 AM)LouPower Wrote:  It's funny that the Cardinals are mentioned in the sense that their stake at the top of the National League left town when Tony LaRussa retired. No rings and 1 WS wipeout since Tony moved on.

Mike Matheny is a train wreck in progress.

No. Don Mattingly is a train wreck in progress.

(11-05-2014 10:27 PM)PlainTiger Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 11:20 AM)LouPower Wrote:  It's funny that the Cardinals are mentioned in the sense that their stake at the top of the National League left town when Tony LaRussa retired. No rings and 1 WS wipeout since Tony moved on.

Mike Matheny is a train wreck in progress.

No. Don Mattingly is a train wreck in progress.

Mattingly is the reason Matheny still has a job.

(11-01-2014 12:18 AM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  In pro football, there have been five different champions in the last five year and three -- New Orleans, Baltimore and Seattle -- are not among the teams you listed as the traditional champions. There is always a sense that with the right coaching staff, a few good drafts and some key free agents, a team can contend for a championship.

This. NFL football is the only major professional sport that has notable shifts in competitive balance from year to year, and it is mainly driven by a logical salary cap. MLB with no salary cap, and the NBA with it's "luxury tax", make the leagues perennially unbalanced.

(11-07-2014 03:39 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(11-01-2014 12:18 AM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  In pro football, there have been five different champions in the last five year and three -- New Orleans, Baltimore and Seattle -- are not among the teams you listed as the traditional champions. There is always a sense that with the right coaching staff, a few good drafts and some key free agents, a team can contend for a championship.

This. NFL football is the only major professional sport that has notable shifts in competitive balance from year to year, and it is mainly driven by a logical salary cap. MLB with no salary cap, and the NBA with it's "luxury tax", make the leagues perennially unbalanced.

Current NFL Division Leaders:

Philadelphia Eagles
Detroit Lions
New Orleans Saints
Arizona Cardinals
New England Patriots
Pittsburgh Steelers
Indianapolis Colts
Denver Broncos

Six of those teams have been regular division winners in the last decade. I think the NFL has a false reputation for having parity since there are so few games, so much is dependent on health and an average team can just get hot, win 4 consecutive games and be a champion....see Ravens, Giants.