Virgin Galactic has confirmed SpaceShip two crashed; media outlets are reporting at least one of the two pilots is confirmed dead (RIP).

Peace in rest

damn... I had real hopes for this one. This has not been a good week for the space programs :(

(10-31-2014 02:20 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  damn... I had real hopes for this one. This has not been a good week for the space programs :(

Especially for those programs that use Russian built engines.

(10-31-2014 02:20 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  damn... I had real hopes for this one. This has not been a good week for the space programs :(

Space is hard. I'm not sure there will ever be a benefit to manned space travel.

People have always died pushing the envelope of manned travel; whether across the oceans, the deserts, the mountains, the polar regions, under the seas or in the skies. Its par for the course and I doubt any of those who died questioned whether it was all worth it to them before the voyage began. They all made the decision to go after all.

(10-31-2014 03:25 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:20 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  damn... I had real hopes for this one. This has not been a good week for the space programs :(

Space is hard. I'm not sure there will ever be a benefit to manned space travel.

All it takes is one brilliant mind to figure out a great purpose for something and the benefits come flowing in.

Why do we need your light bulb, Mr. Edison? These candles illuminate just fine!

(10-31-2014 04:09 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  People have always died pushing the envelope of manned travel; whether across the oceans, the deserts, the mountains, the polar regions, under the seas or in the skies. Its par for the course and I doubt any of those who died questioned whether it was all worth it to them before the voyage began. They all made the decision to go after all.

(10-31-2014 03:25 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:20 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  damn... I had real hopes for this one. This has not been a good week for the space programs :(

Space is hard. I'm not sure there will ever be a benefit to manned space travel.

The only benefit I am aware of is that it helped generate funding for unmanned space programs, which have generally produced some good science. Or, at least some cool toys.

(10-31-2014 04:09 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  People have always died pushing the envelope of manned travel; whether across the oceans, the deserts, the mountains, the polar regions, under the seas or in the skies. Its par for the course and I doubt any of those who died questioned whether it was all worth it to them before the voyage began. They all made the decision to go after all.

Someone nearly died today basejumping off of a radio antenna tower. That doesn't mean that it's a worthwhile endeavor.

(10-31-2014 04:18 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 03:25 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:20 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  damn... I had real hopes for this one. This has not been a good week for the space programs :(

Space is hard. I'm not sure there will ever be a benefit to manned space travel.

The only benefit I am aware of is that it helped generate funding for unmanned space programs, which have generally produced some good science. Or, at least some cool toys.

I mean, how much cooler can you get than a car on the moon!

Hopefully, they'll learn what the issue was and it will make the next trip safer. Or they'll find out that it's too expensive to make it safe enough and still make money off of it.

(10-31-2014 04:57 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 04:18 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 03:25 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 02:20 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  damn... I had real hopes for this one. This has not been a good week for the space programs :(

Space is hard. I'm not sure there will ever be a benefit to manned space travel.

The only benefit I am aware of is that it helped generate funding for unmanned space programs, which have generally produced some good science. Or, at least some cool toys.

I mean, how much cooler can you get than a car on the moon!

I was thinking more of robots on mars, but the bigger bang for the buck are more like satellites and other probes.

What with the Orbital ATK unmanned rocket exploding and this, its been a turbulent week for space tech stocks. This is likely the norm for the early stages, but it is saddening to see it come at the cost of human life. The industry moves forward. Hopefully the casualties will be remembered and/or commemorated.

(10-31-2014 04:19 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 04:09 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  People have always died pushing the envelope of manned travel; whether across the oceans, the deserts, the mountains, the polar regions, under the seas or in the skies. Its par for the course and I doubt any of those who died questioned whether it was all worth it to them before the voyage began. They all made the decision to go after all.

Someone nearly died today basejumping off of a radio antenna tower. That doesn't mean that it's a worthwhile endeavor.

That would be your opinion. The basejumper chose to jump though. He clearly had a different opinion and was willing to take the risk. As for space travel, well let's just say I'm pretty glad folks decided to cross the Atlantic without knowing the risks or rewards ahead of time. Future generations may say the same about Neil, Buzz and Mike.

(10-31-2014 08:29 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 04:19 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 04:09 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  People have always died pushing the envelope of manned travel; whether across the oceans, the deserts, the mountains, the polar regions, under the seas or in the skies. Its par for the course and I doubt any of those who died questioned whether it was all worth it to them before the voyage began. They all made the decision to go after all.

Someone nearly died today basejumping off of a radio antenna tower. That doesn't mean that it's a worthwhile endeavor.

That would be your opinion. The basejumper chose to jump though. He clearly had a different opinion and was willing to take the risk. As for space travel, well let's just say I'm pretty glad folks decided to cross the Atlantic without knowing the risks or rewards ahead of time. Future generations may say the same about Neil, Buzz and Mike.

In the not-so-distant-future, endeavors such as basejumping may be considered petty earth gravity trips. The orbital rocket explorers are our time's equivalent of trans-Atlantic explorers. Although in this case, they're striving for something more than this rock somewhere in the folds of the Milky Way.

(10-31-2014 08:29 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  That would be your opinion.

First off, thank you for that wonderful piece of insight.

(10-31-2014 08:29 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  The basejumper chose to jump though. He clearly had a different opinion and was willing to take the risk. As for space travel, well let's just say I'm pretty glad folks decided to cross the Atlantic without knowing the risks or rewards ahead of time. Future generations may say the same about Neil, Buzz and Mike.

What distinguishes the two is not that the risks or rewards were not known ahead of time. It is that the folks crossing the Atlantic had rewards as a goal. If you wish to dismiss this out of hand, please answer - what is the goal of manned space flight? What do scientists think the goal of manned spaceflight is?

What distinguishes the basejumper from the astronaut is that the basejumper paid for his own toys.

(10-31-2014 09:46 PM)CameramanJ Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 08:29 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 04:19 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 04:09 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  People have always died pushing the envelope of manned travel; whether across the oceans, the deserts, the mountains, the polar regions, under the seas or in the skies. Its par for the course and I doubt any of those who died questioned whether it was all worth it to them before the voyage began. They all made the decision to go after all.

Someone nearly died today basejumping off of a radio antenna tower. That doesn't mean that it's a worthwhile endeavor.

That would be your opinion. The basejumper chose to jump though. He clearly had a different opinion and was willing to take the risk. As for space travel, well let's just say I'm pretty glad folks decided to cross the Atlantic without knowing the risks or rewards ahead of time. Future generations may say the same about Neil, Buzz and Mike.

In the not-so-distant-future, endeavors such as basejumping may be considered petty earth gravity trips. The orbital rocket explorers are our time's equivalent of trans-Atlantic explorers. Although in this case, they're striving for something more than this rock somewhere in the folds of the Milky Way.

It's fine for you to make that assertion ... you should then be able to answer what it is that they're striving for? It's not so petty as something tangible... I get that. But it should be something that can at least be articulated.

Since I probably won't return to this thread until Monday or so, I will note a couple of things. First, if I'm correct, you have at least two people in this thread that have either worked on the manned space program or worked directly for NASA.

Second, I remember January 28, 1986. I was at lunch when I heard that Columbia had crashed. I remember it was a Tuesday because I had class that afternoon with a professor that had been training to fly on the shuttle and who later articulated that he knew instantly that he would never be allowed to fly (because NASA would never fly another civilian, which had been a feature of the program up until then). Even though he was probably 18 months away from flying at that time, he told me that he and most scientists supported manned flight in the belief that it brought more funding to NASA, which in turn brought the research dollars to unmanned flight, which is what they were really interested in.

edit: I'll also note that what the military (true of US, Soviet, Chinese, Iranian, and Nork) looked for out of both manned and unmanned flight is the ability to build bigger and better platforms from which to launch nuclear weapons (and some other stuff).

The fact that they made room for experiments designed by elementary school students should tell you a lot about the research value of the shuttle as a scientific platform. That, and the apocryphal sex stories about manned flight.

(11-01-2014 12:59 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(10-31-2014 09:46 PM)CameramanJ Wrote:  In the not-so-distant-future, endeavors such as basejumping may be considered petty earth gravity trips. The orbital rocket explorers are our time's equivalent of trans-Atlantic explorers. Although in this case, they're striving for something more than this rock somewhere in the folds of the Milky Way.

It's fine for you to make that assertion ... you should then be able to answer what it is that they're striving for? It's not so petty as something tangible... I get that. But it should be something that can at least be articulated.

I'm guessing that Virgin Galactic and the early trans-Atlantic explorers had the same goal--make a ton of money. Virgin Galactic has identified a pool of people willing to pay to go to space and is attempting to meet that demand. NASA might need a different justification, but that's the only justification needed for the people involved in this crash.