No I wasn't accusing CAT of breaking the law. I was accusing them of trying to change the workers comp law. Even when CAT is fully compliant with OSHA, accidents happen. And when those accidents happen, CAT is loathe to pay for the injuries, so they want to rig the comp system. They made progress in 2011 but they're not satisfied (Is greed ever satisfied?). My uncle worked as an electrician in Georgia and died because someone at a worksite didn't cut the current to a machine he was working on, and my aunt and cousins got $75k because the GOP controlled Georgia lets businesses write the laws. Here's how it works. Dumb rednecks vote in these Republicans because of race and social issues, and then the GOP officials they elect put the screws in them. They think the "reform" the GOP passed only targets frivolous claims, that is until they're on the chopping block. But by then it's too late.

(11-03-2014 02:02 PM)Max Power Wrote:  No I wasn't accusing CAT of breaking the law. I was accusing them of trying to change the workers comp law. Even when CAT is fully compliant with OSHA, accidents happen. And when those accidents happen, CAT is loathe to pay for the injuries, so they want to rig the comp system. They made progress in 2011 but they're not satisfied (Is greed ever satisfied?). My uncle worked as an electrician in Georgia and died because someone at a worksite didn't cut the current to a machine he was working on, and my aunt and cousins got $75k because the GOP controlled Georgia lets businesses write the laws. Here's how it works. Dumb rednecks vote in these Republicans because of race and social issues, and then the GOP officials they elect put the screws in them. They think the "reform" the GOP passed only targets frivolous claims, that is until they're on the chopping block. But by then it's too late.

And I know of a union electrician that was on his third total disability claim. He was a journeyman and went back to work for a 3rd claim. Is that fair. Nope, I lost my job because the companies workers comp rates increased 400% due to fraudulent claims.

If the total disability is temporary then you can have 3. Total disability just means you're unable to work at the moment and you can recover. Are you saying he successfully defrauded the arbitrator 3 times?

I really don't think a company's rates increased 400% due to fraud. Studies show that 1 to 2 percent of comp claims are fraudulent. If your insurance company is telling you they're QUADRUPLING your rates because of that you're flat out being lied to.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...fraud.html

Quote:In recent years, the insurance industry's focus on cheaters and malingerers helped push through national workers' compensation reform, a profitable cost-cutting campaign supported by outrage over alleged abuse of the system. The problem, however, is that the fraud image is false for the vast majority of workers' compensation cases. Studies show that only 1 to 2 percent of workers' compensation claims are fraudulent. 1 2 Certainly, the tens of thousands of workers killed every year were hardly aiming for a free ride on their employer's tab.

(11-03-2014 02:27 PM)Max Power Wrote:  If the total disability is temporary then you can have 3. Total disability just means you're unable to work at the moment and you can recover. Are you saying he successfully defrauded the arbitrator 3 times?

I really don't think a company's rates increased 400% due to fraud. Studies show that 1 to 2 percent of comp claims are fraudulent. If your insurance company is telling you they're QUADRUPLING your rates because of that you're flat out being lied to.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...fraud.html

Quote:In recent years, the insurance industry's focus on cheaters and malingerers helped push through national workers' compensation reform, a profitable cost-cutting campaign supported by outrage over alleged abuse of the system. The problem, however, is that the fraud image is false for the vast majority of workers' compensation cases. Studies show that only 1 to 2 percent of workers' compensation claims are fraudulent. 1 2 Certainly, the tens of thousands of workers killed every year were hardly aiming for a free ride on their employer's tab.

I was the Controller. Their rates went from 200k to 1 million before they self insured. They had two claims that totaled 1 million and both of them had had other workers comp claims. Most union shops have black lists but they can't catch every cheat. The hall sends them workers and they can cut some but not all without reason. This firm got screwed and I and three others lost their jobs.

What happened to your relative is wrong. If he was breadwinner than compensation should have been more.

Thanks. I'm sorry to hear that but there had to be some other explanation for rate quintupling other than fraud (unless you worked at Menard, but it doesn't sound like it). The insurance company must not have properly assessed the risk going in. I don't trust insurance companies and the explanations they give when they raise rates.

(11-03-2014 03:59 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Thanks. I'm sorry to hear that but there had to be some other explanation for rate quintupling other than fraud (unless you worked at Menard, but it doesn't sound like it). The insurance company must not have properly assessed the risk going in. I don't trust insurance companies and the explanations they give when they raise rates.

Their experience rating went through the roof.

I sent out requests to every workers comp carrier out there. For another guy on workers comp, the insurance company had pictures of him building a retaining wall while on WC. The insurance company said that was not enough proof. His doctor and lawyer would state that he can do this for a few hours but not 8 hours a day for 5 day a week consistently.

I am not saying all workers comp claims are fraudulent but some are and they hurt businesses and other employees.

(11-03-2014 03:59 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Thanks. I'm sorry to hear that but there had to be some other explanation for rate quintupling other than fraud (unless you worked at Menard, but it doesn't sound like it). The insurance company must not have properly assessed the risk going in. I don't trust insurance companies and the explanations they give when they raise rates.

Disability can be hard to underwrite, from all I've heard, and the rates are more volatile than for something like life or dental. All you need is some bad luck and rates can change a lot. Or like Max said, there could have been an error in the initial rates. Or the disability carrier went low on rates to win the business, and then naturally had to increase the rates (predictably, unless they got lucky with claims).

(11-03-2014 04:14 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 03:59 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Thanks. I'm sorry to hear that but there had to be some other explanation for rate quintupling other than fraud (unless you worked at Menard, but it doesn't sound like it). The insurance company must not have properly assessed the risk going in. I don't trust insurance companies and the explanations they give when they raise rates.

Disability can be hard to underwrite, from all I've heard, and the rates are more volatile than for something like life or dental. All you need is some bad luck and rates can change a lot. Or like Max said, there could have been an error in the initial rates. Or the disability carrier went low on rates to win the business, and then naturally had to increase the rates (predictably, unless they got lucky with claims).

That is why every year you bid out your insurance policies. See what the market has to offer. If your current insurance company wants to keep you, they will match. I was a pro at that.

Life and Dental are controlled cost insurance that is guaranteed renewable in some cases. Example if all your teeth were busted out what would that cost 30-40 grand in a claim? There is the ceiling. Now what are your average claims and then you set premium. Its a huge money maker and hard to have a death spiral.

Disability especially group disability is very tough to underwrite. Reserves are much different and in a low interest rate environment attached with stupid laws you get high rates.

(11-03-2014 05:00 PM)klake87 Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 04:14 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 03:59 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Thanks. I'm sorry to hear that but there had to be some other explanation for rate quintupling other than fraud (unless you worked at Menard, but it doesn't sound like it). The insurance company must not have properly assessed the risk going in. I don't trust insurance companies and the explanations they give when they raise rates.

Disability can be hard to underwrite, from all I've heard, and the rates are more volatile than for something like life or dental. All you need is some bad luck and rates can change a lot. Or like Max said, there could have been an error in the initial rates. Or the disability carrier went low on rates to win the business, and then naturally had to increase the rates (predictably, unless they got lucky with claims).

That is why every year you bid out your insurance policies. See what the market has to offer. If your current insurance company wants to keep you, they will match. I was a pro at that.

After you bid out a few times, it doesn't really help. If the insurance companies know you bid out all the time you won't get as aggressive a quote. It takes some expenses to implement new companies and they don't generally get that back unless you're with them for a few years. The insurance companies catch on to that pretty quickly.