People are coming down on the defense, and while I don’t think the D is great, I think part of their struggles are a result of the new offense style.

When you play fast on O, your D is on the field a lot. More possessions, more plays, less time to rest and for coaches to make defensive adjustments. It’s inevitable you are going to give up points. People are just going to have to get used to that. The days of winning 14-13 are over.

DD, i think you're slightly reaching there. Fundamentally, I there is a lack of 1) talent and 2) experience. See it with my own eyes. That - overwhelmingly - is the root cause of the problems. Does the up tempo O factor into it? Sure, but marginally, IMO.

i don't think i'm reaching.

can you name a team that plays this quick pace fast offense that has a good D? Even TCU, which is known for its D, is giving up bushels of points now that they play a fast break offense.

again, like I said, I don't think this D is great. But it's not horrendous like some are making it out to be.

in the first 9 possessions for Charlotte Saturday, 5 resulted in a 3 and out, one was a 4 play drive and one had the 98 yard TD which was sort of a "fluky" type play. the only "drive" Charlotte had the entire first half was a 7 play, 53 yard drive.

Just FYI, we led in time of possession yesterday.

I tried to focus on our LB's this week. Steele seemed to react more quickly this week than in past games. Even when he was not credited with the tackle he was there stopping the surge. I personally like watching Hawkins play too. He reminds me a little at times of Stephon- a much younger, inexperienced version though. Sometimes we are late getting where we need to be, and then we overpursue a lot too. The db's seem to fall asleep on plays and take some bad angles. Overall, we seem tentative a lot, and then we go 100 miles per hour and allow cutbacks. Can anyone else concur, disagree or better explain what I am getting at?

We lack another DE to compliment Harold and an 2nd expierenced LB. We have had some injuries and you can expect much from back up players at the FCS level. We have talent but this is our first year in a new scheme with new coaches. In two years we should see some better results if not its coaching.

In 2004 we switched our scheme from a 4-3 to a 4-2-5 , difference was , we had a lot of juniors and seniors on that defense but it was still a very difficult transition.

(10-27-2014 11:58 AM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  We lack another DE to compliment Harold and an 2nd expierenced LB. We have had some injuries and you can expect much from back up players at the FCS level. We have talent but this is our first year in a new scheme with new coaches. In two years we should see some better results if not its coaching.

In 2004 we switched our scheme from a 4-3 to a 4-2-5 , difference was , we had a lot of juniors and seniors on that defense but it was still very difficult transitions.

True. Many people really undersestimate how hard changing a formation like that is. It seems simple on paper on the defensive end, but dudes have to unlearn things they've been used to doing for years and it gets really challenging in the heat of the moment playing when natural instinct takes over so much.

(10-27-2014 11:37 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  i don't think i'm reaching.

can you name a team that plays this quick pace fast offense that has a good D? Even TCU, which is known for its D, is giving up bushels of points now that they play a fast break offense.

again, like I said, I don't think this D is great. But it's not horrendous like some are making it out to be.

in the first 9 possessions for Charlotte Saturday, 5 resulted in a 3 and out, one was a 4 play drive and one had the 98 yard TD which was sort of a "fluky" type play. the only "drive" Charlotte had the entire first half was a 7 play, 53 yard drive.

So the offense is why we gave up 200 yards in the first quarter against St Francis? So the offense is the reason we gave up 40 points in a little over 3 quarters to a bad team's second string QB?.

Charlotte was the Sagarin 211th team - in other words not a good team. Total Yardage on Saturday - JMU - 570 - UNCC 566. If the defense is a lot better than the 566 yard and 40 points represent, than the offense is a lot worse than they show. If not for the one on one plays by Lee this team would not of won these 5 games versus bad teams.

The argument would be more plays, more yardage and more points on defense. Certainly true relative to last year a little - perhaps relative to last year it would comparable to only be 500 yards and 32 points against the backup QB of a bad team.


Withers specialty is defense. He's been a defensive coordinator everywhere he's been. 200 yards in the first qtr versus St Francis - not even close to being respectable. 40 points in a little over 3 quarters to a backup QB on a bad team not even close to respectable.

Coaching = atrocious

This team was close last year. Lee is the type of QB last years team really needed and the program needed the last 5 years. Adding Lee I expected this team to be top10 - 15 in 1AA. There are a lot of good Seniors on this team.

I think Sage Harold, Brandon Lee, Gage Steele, and Dean Marlowe are as good a top 4 players as any top 4 on a defense in the CAA. Simply too much talent to be giving up the yards per game and per attempt.

This year has even been relatively injury free aside from the running backs.

(10-27-2014 09:06 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 11:37 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  i don't think i'm reaching.

can you name a team that plays this quick pace fast offense that has a good D? Even TCU, which is known for its D, is giving up bushels of points now that they play a fast break offense.

again, like I said, I don't think this D is great. But it's not horrendous like some are making it out to be.

in the first 9 possessions for Charlotte Saturday, 5 resulted in a 3 and out, one was a 4 play drive and one had the 98 yard TD which was sort of a "fluky" type play. the only "drive" Charlotte had the entire first half was a 7 play, 53 yard drive.

So the offense is why we gave up 200 yards in the first quarter against St Francis? So the offense is the reason we gave up 40 points in a little over 3 quarters to a bad team's second string QB?.

Charlotte was the Sagarin 211th team - in other words not a good team. Total Yardage on Saturday - JMU - 570 - UNCC 566. If the defense is a lot better than the 566 yard and 40 points represent, than the offense is a lot worse than they show. If not for the one on one plays by Lee this team would not of won these 5 games versus bad teams.

The argument would be more plays, more yardage and more points on defense. Certainly true relative to last year a little - perhaps relative to last year it would comparable to only be 500 yards and 32 points against the backup QB of a bad team.


Withers specialty is defense. He's been a defensive coordinator everywhere he's been. 200 yards in the first qtr versus St Francis - not even close to being respectable. 40 points in a little over 3 quarters to a backup QB on a bad team not even close to respectable.

Coaching = atrocious

This team was close last year. Lee is the type of QB last years team really needed and the program needed the last 5 years. Adding Lee I expected this team to be top10 - 15 in 1AA. There are a lot of good Seniors on this team.

I think Sage Harold, Brandon Lee, Gage Steele, and Dean Marlowe are as good a top 4 players as any top 4 on a defense in the CAA. Simply too much talent to be giving up the yards per game and per attempt.

This year has even been relatively injury free aside from the running backs.

I completely agree

(10-27-2014 09:06 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 11:37 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  i don't think i'm reaching.

can you name a team that plays this quick pace fast offense that has a good D? Even TCU, which is known for its D, is giving up bushels of points now that they play a fast break offense.

again, like I said, I don't think this D is great. But it's not horrendous like some are making it out to be.

in the first 9 possessions for Charlotte Saturday, 5 resulted in a 3 and out, one was a 4 play drive and one had the 98 yard TD which was sort of a "fluky" type play. the only "drive" Charlotte had the entire first half was a 7 play, 53 yard drive.

So the offense is why we gave up 200 yards in the first quarter against St Francis? So the offense is the reason we gave up 40 points in a little over 3 quarters to a bad team's second string QB?.

Charlotte was the Sagarin 211th team - in other words not a good team. Total Yardage on Saturday - JMU - 570 - UNCC 566. If the defense is a lot better than the 566 yard and 40 points represent, than the offense is a lot worse than they show. If not for the one on one plays by Lee this team would not of won these 5 games versus bad teams.

The argument would be more plays, more yardage and more points on defense. Certainly true relative to last year a little - perhaps relative to last year it would comparable to only be 500 yards and 32 points against the backup QB of a bad team.


Withers specialty is defense. He's been a defensive coordinator everywhere he's been. 200 yards in the first qtr versus St Francis - not even close to being respectable. 40 points in a little over 3 quarters to a backup QB on a bad team not even close to respectable.

Coaching = atrocious

This team was close last year. Lee is the type of QB last years team really needed and the program needed the last 5 years. Adding Lee I expected this team to be top10 - 15 in 1AA. There are a lot of good Seniors on this team.

I think Sage Harold, Brandon Lee, Gage Steele, and Dean Marlowe are as good a top 4 players as any top 4 on a defense in the CAA. Simply too much talent to be giving up the yards per game and per attempt.

This year has even been relatively injury free aside from the running backs.

I agree, our Defense looked gassed in the fourth quarter on Sat. That is all conditioning, which is on the coaches. We were getting gouged for 8-10 yards on belly runs all day, that's the most simple run to defense. I don't even think I saw them pulling their guards. Essentially their O-line was pushing our D-line around. That's strength training - which is on the coaches.

We have the talent, but are not putting it together.

I agree with what DD says here with respect to playing fast and its impact on the defense.

While it may not have had a profound impact on Saturday, I definitely think it had an impact early in the season as the offense was just starting to get its feet. Its more than just scoring, its the impact of three and outs, four and five play drives...especially in succession.

On St. Francis: Difficult to compare anything that happened in that game to anything other than Lehigh. The scheme did not fit the personnel and the offense was sputtering.

On Charlotte: They have moved the ball and put up points on most teams. And some decent FCS teams are in that mix. The Sagarins would have predicted an 8+ point win and we won by 8. Dukester, you used to take those things as law, and now you ignore them and look only at rankings

Steele still looks...off. Dont know if its lingering injury, sophomore jinx, new scheme or just being more comfortable being a Robin linebacker. But I also agree that Hawkins has looked good and has good instincts and reactions. Just needs to get stronger.

I dont think the coaching is atrocious. But I think that they are learning each week, just as the team is learning and improving.

Dukester, I think you are sour because this staff does not give you the special access that Coach Matthews did. Or the shout outs on twitter like Leeolou et al got from Coach Withers. Just one mans opinion.

I said early on that we now fit the mold of an ODU. Score lots of points ~ give up lots of points. Fact is, we won't win another National Championship giving up 40 plus points a game. It is fun to watch our offense and everyone loves scoring, but not when it is the other team doing it.

If we are to become a perennial 1AA power again, we need to get much better on defense. I always love the argument that our defense gets tired. Why doesn't the other teams offense get tired? They are on the field the exact same amount of time. Fact is, our defense is terrible.

(10-28-2014 08:26 AM)BSKB 24 Wrote:  I said early on that we now fit the mold of an ODU. Score lots of points ~ give up lots of points. Fact is, we won't win another National Championship giving up 40 plus points a game. It is fun to watch our offense and everyone loves scoring, but not when it is the other team doing it.

If we are to become a perennial 1AA power again, we need to get much better on defense. I always love the argument that our defense gets tired. Why doesn't the other teams offense get tired? They are on the field the exact same amount of time. Fact is, our defense is terrible.

Yea , i dont buy that notion. You still need to get off the field after three downs , if your defense is playing 60 snaps and giving up 20+ yards plays things need to change.

(10-28-2014 08:26 AM)BSKB 24 Wrote:  I said early on that we now fit the mold of an ODU. Score lots of points ~ give up lots of points. Fact is, we won't win another National Championship giving up 40 plus points a game. It is fun to watch our offense and everyone loves scoring, but not when it is the other team doing it.

If we are to become a perennial 1AA power again, we need to get much better on defense. I always love the argument that our defense gets tired. Why doesn't the other teams offense get tired? They are on the field the exact same amount of time. Fact is, our defense is terrible.

It is bad, especially in giving up a huge play about every third series. It like they lose focus for that one brief moment and the other team is off to the end zone for a score. They'll go along pretty good again for 7 or 8 plays, then it happens again.

Most teams do not have sustained drives against us. The only one I remember this past Saturday was their second TD.

(10-28-2014 08:44 AM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(10-28-2014 08:26 AM)BSKB 24 Wrote:  I said early on that we now fit the mold of an ODU. Score lots of points ~ give up lots of points. Fact is, we won't win another National Championship giving up 40 plus points a game. It is fun to watch our offense and everyone loves scoring, but not when it is the other team doing it.

If we are to become a perennial 1AA power again, we need to get much better on defense. I always love the argument that our defense gets tired. Why doesn't the other teams offense get tired? They are on the field the exact same amount of time. Fact is, our defense is terrible.

It is bad, especially in giving up a huge play about every third series. It like they lose focus for that one brief moment and the other team is off to the end zone for a score. They'll go along pretty good again for 7 or 8 plays, then it happens again.

Most teams do not have sustained drives against us. The only one I remember this past Saturday was their second TD.

Really good points. The big plays are what is hurting the defense. Only reason we lost to UD, as well.

(10-28-2014 08:51 AM)PhillyDuke Wrote:  

(10-28-2014 08:44 AM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(10-28-2014 08:26 AM)BSKB 24 Wrote:  I said early on that we now fit the mold of an ODU. Score lots of points ~ give up lots of points. Fact is, we won't win another National Championship giving up 40 plus points a game. It is fun to watch our offense and everyone loves scoring, but not when it is the other team doing it.

If we are to become a perennial 1AA power again, we need to get much better on defense. I always love the argument that our defense gets tired. Why doesn't the other teams offense get tired? They are on the field the exact same amount of time. Fact is, our defense is terrible.

It is bad, especially in giving up a huge play about every third series. It like they lose focus for that one brief moment and the other team is off to the end zone for a score. They'll go along pretty good again for 7 or 8 plays, then it happens again.

Most teams do not have sustained drives against us. The only one I remember this past Saturday was their second TD.

Really good points. The big plays are what is hurting the defense. Only reason we lost to UD, as well.

After all of those years of bend, but don't break Mickey ball, we have a break but don't bend defense!

One thing is for sure...this team isn't boring anymore.

I much prefer this brand of exciting football to what we have been given since 2008-ish.

There was an article in the DNR that touched on this today...Withers asserts that it's fixable as guys are out of place at times, in part due to youth and inexperience. From watching every game this season, either on TV or on my computer, the defense is prone to giving up huge plays, many times for touchdowns. Other than the Towson game, that issue has not been resolved and is most likely due to guys not staying in their lanes per se. That to me is a coaching issue more than a youth and inexperience issue. I agree that until that's corrected, this team is really not a good one, unfortunately. We're now 5-3 and still not ranked....it may take 9 wins to get in (contrary to what others have said on these boards). I'm not familiar enough with the FCS landscape, but in years past 8 wins minimum was a requirement essentially, but that was typically done in 11 games, not 12. This year, of course, 24 teams get in, more than the previous 16 or 20 teams.

(10-28-2014 09:11 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  

(10-28-2014 08:51 AM)PhillyDuke Wrote:  

(10-28-2014 08:44 AM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(10-28-2014 08:26 AM)BSKB 24 Wrote:  I said early on that we now fit the mold of an ODU. Score lots of points ~ give up lots of points. Fact is, we won't win another National Championship giving up 40 plus points a game. It is fun to watch our offense and everyone loves scoring, but not when it is the other team doing it.

If we are to become a perennial 1AA power again, we need to get much better on defense. I always love the argument that our defense gets tired. Why doesn't the other teams offense get tired? They are on the field the exact same amount of time. Fact is, our defense is terrible.

It is bad, especially in giving up a huge play about every third series. It like they lose focus for that one brief moment and the other team is off to the end zone for a score. They'll go along pretty good again for 7 or 8 plays, then it happens again.

Most teams do not have sustained drives against us. The only one I remember this past Saturday was their second TD.

Really good points. The big plays are what is hurting the defense. Only reason we lost to UD, as well.

After all of those years of bend, but don't break Mickey ball, we have a break but don't bend defense!

One thing is for sure...this team isn't boring anymore.

If you don't go through a compete circle of emotions watching the Dukes, then there must be daisies planted somewhere near you.

(10-28-2014 09:25 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  I much prefer this brand of exciting football to what we have been given since 2008-ish.

I personally don't , it pains me to see our defense give up easy points and yards. We shouldnt put that pressure on the offense game in and game out .