The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(10-26-2014 10:37 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 10:35 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  It wont be this year... and it probably wont be next year... but eventually PJ is going to leave WMU for a larger school with deeper pockets and more visibility. It's how we handle the giant PJ/RTB/ROW/DJ Ill Mix vacuum that will be created by him leaving that defines how this FOUNDATION holds up... I almost think that the next coach will actually pick up the RTB and run with it... I also think that we go after another really young energetic guy with NFL roots... it just makes more sense.

You show these kids you know what the NFL wants... it goes a long way.

I think the next new sensation good vibration guy should be afforded the luxury of having his own saying.

I think the new sensation guy sees how much money was dropped on all this RTB signage and jerseys... and decides HIS money should go somewhere else that keeps up with the same energetic direction ... thats all... PJ is spending a TON of WMU money making sure that this RTB thing sticks around for awhile... even after he's gone.

Its hilarious that guys who have been running down the coach/program for two years are trying to take a victory lap after being shown to be not just wrong in their dogged defense of the status quo, but in evaluating every aspect of Fleck's tenure. Trying to make support for the program and an unwillingness to trash the coach into some type of over exuberance for Fleck is such a CYA move from the noisy minority who wanted him to fail.

Spin all you want fellas we all know what you've said and what you're about. You've made the Cubit family oh so proud with your conduct.

to clarify... I have been on board since day one... I am just stating that the hole left behind when PJ eventually leaves will be difficult for any new coach coming in... he's building a foundation that is very PJ... and any new coach will need to either adjust to what was left behind... or start all over.

(10-26-2014 10:53 AM)ghost bronco Wrote:  Its hilarious that guys who have been running down the coach/program for two years are trying to take a victory lap after being shown to be not just wrong in their dogged defense of the status quo, but in evaluating every aspect of Fleck's tenure. Trying to make support for the program and an unwillingness to trash the coach into some type of over exuberance for Fleck is such a CYA move from the noisy minority who wanted him to fail.

Spin all you want fellas we all know what you've said and what you're about. You've made the Cubit family oh so proud with your conduct.

Flush has been in full support all along, I'll vouch for him. Ghostsky is just being....himself. Nuff said there to say the least.

I'm the one who's not, and won't be. I support WMU and the team. I was a Bronco when Fleck was a Huskie, and I'll be a Bronco long after he's gone to resell his schtick and great recruiting elsewhere. Probably after this year if we keep winning.

I really want us to keep winning. Be so much fun to be on the national stage in football for a year.

I'm rowing the boat and predict right here and now we take down MSU next fall.

(10-26-2014 09:11 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  That's part of the deal. You all said that's what you wanted when we made this change, and, you were willing to go through this cycle. Remember?

It's not so much what I wish for, it's the reality of the day. Maybe the next guy will be even a better recruiter.

Dunn was able to show KB how to make a good hire. If he goes, who's to say hewon't have similar success with the next hire. I'd stay away from Big Ten retreads, but I'd take MSU's DC in a heartbeat, although I doubt we could pry him away.

Anyway, I'm not going to set here and say, "Fleck's gone."

There is no guarantees in this league. Injuries, scheduling, luck, weather, officiating can often be the difference between 1st place and 4th in this league. I like what I'm seeing out of Fleck, but I've been a Bronco fan too long to think a three game winning steak is a hop, skip and a jump for greatness.

(10-26-2014 11:17 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  I'm rowing the boat and predict right here and now we take down MSU next fall.

You're out of your mind. That program is a legit national power.

(10-26-2014 01:19 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 11:17 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  I'm rowing the boat and predict right here and now we take down MSU next fall.

You're out of your mind. That program is a legit national power.

That's what I'm saying. I'm rowing the boat we get better every game, next year the powerhouse recruits come on line, all our best people are freshmen, redshirt freshman, sophomores. Plus the good ones playing in HS this year. Next fall we row the boat into a top 15 ranking. All around the country people and good players are taking notes and we are going to go OMG we hired a football genius.

(10-26-2014 01:34 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 01:19 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 11:17 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  I'm rowing the boat and predict right here and now we take down MSU next fall.

You're out of your mind. That program is a legit national power.

That's what I'm saying. I'm rowing the boat we get better every game, next year the powerhouse recruits come on line, all our best people are freshmen, redshirt freshman, sophomores. Plus the good ones playing in HS this year. Next fall we row the boat into a top 15 ranking. All around the country people and good players are taking notes and we are going to go OMG we hired a football genius.

Greatest recruiter ever, makes Lou Holtz look pedestrian in that regard.

Lou Holtz is a sanctimonious twerp.

(10-26-2014 01:41 PM)BCBronco Wrote:  Lou Holtz is a sanctimonious twerp.

We're talking personalities now?

I agree. I've been a supporter the whole time. In Jan 13 I felt something special just happened and said PJ would take us to a bowl - and win- this year. So far, I'm proud to say, I'm right on the money. Couple more wins and make your travel plans people!

='ghost bronco' pid='11293905' dateline='1414338824']
Its hilarious that guys who have been running down the coach/program for two years are trying to take a victory lap after being shown to be not just wrong in their dogged defense of the status quo, but in evaluating every aspect of Fleck's tenure. Trying to make support for the program and an unwillingness to trash the coach into some type of over exuberance for Fleck is such a CYA move from the noisy minority who wanted him to fail.

Spin all you want fellas we all know what you've said and what you're about. You've made the Cubit family oh so proud with your conduct.
[/quote]

Quote:I really doubt PJ gets picked after this year. After all, he did go 1-11 last year. An AD would have to explain why he is hiring a real young coach, with only two years experience, and who has a losing record.

I totally agree. Even if we go 8-4 this year, he'll be 9-15 overall. WAY WAY too early to pick up any new HC. Especially one that doesn't even win a Division title (assuming Toledo doesn't completely fold)!

I would say at the end of next year would be a Maybe -- if there was a big coaching hire all around the country -- but with our tough schedule of 3 OOC games we'll likely get beat by -- and @Toledo and @NIU, as well as the MAC itself improving -- he Won't be hired elsewhere after next year. We'll go 7-5 at BEST next year. Even if we went 8-4 it wouldn't be enough.

Lembo from BSU would have already left. He won 10 games last year. Teams are wisely being cautious about hiring a MAC coach too quick.

I think after 2016, what may be our "big year" -- following a still winning record next year -- he may go at the end of that year if we make the MACC game. But for now, in the 2nd half of the 2014 season? He still has a lot to show. He's not going anywhere for at least a couple years.

This "MAC Coach" is different. His recruiting is top notch, someone will take him at the end of this year and hope that he can make lightning strike.

I don't think realistically anyone should want him to leave after this season the way he is stockpiling talent. Another recruiting class or two and it won't matter as much but I think its critical we keep him for another offseason at minimum. After that we can call it a success at any point and mutually move on. Right now though we need to collect on our investment of 1-11 with something more than just one winning season (which isn't done yet). Now if he can pull out a MACC and or bowl win way ahead of schedule then hey its all gravy at that point.

Another bright side to that 1-11 season is it may pay dividends by keeping him here an extra year or two. Having a low career winning pct. will likely be enough to scare away some Administrators looking to make a splashy hire. I'm thinking the PJ Fleck era will be between 4-5 years and if its less than that it'll be because he's done something historic at WMU. All of which is much better than preserving the broken status quo that was in place.

I disagree. We'd have to win out, have Toledo lose 2, win the MACC and a bowl for a decent chance at him being gone this year. I'm willing to bet my leg hair by duct tape that he'll be here after 2014 and after 2015 -- with zero worries.

But... collegefootballnews.com's Who's Hot / Who's Not section:

http://cfn.scout.com/2/1473248.html

Quote:Bucking for a promotion: Western Michigan head coach P.J. Fleck
Fleck’s career in Kalamazoo began inauspiciously; his debut season was marked by a single win and a nonsensical video aimed at teaching the student body how to support the team. But Fleck is maturing, and it’s showing up in the results. His Broncos are unlikely 5-3, winners of three straight games for the first time since 2010 behind the prolific running of rookie RB Jarvion Franklin.

Oh, they will come Todd, they will come.....

(10-26-2014 08:10 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  Be careful what you wish for

I know that a handful of you are hoping for quick success by the Broncos and a quick exit by PJ. Whatever your rationale, in many ways it's irrelevant to the larger issue of on the field success. It's true that all successful MAC coaches move up when the time comes and PJ will do the same. But know that we are in the Golden age of Bronco recruiting and that when PJ leaves that will end. PJ is not only best recruiter in the MAC right now, he might be the best of all time.

So, here is what will happen when PJ leaves? WMU will hire a new coach, he'll probably be competent, we've had a few over the years. The new guy will win with PJ's recruits for a few years. But…recruiting will drop off, how could it not, and Western will return to its mediocre foundations.

With respect to the proud heritage that another Bronco poster mentioned a few days ago, give me a break. While we have had some decent teams, the 1988 team and Tim Lester's era comes to mind, as does the Cubit team that went 9-4. However, three MAC titles in 60 or so years is not a proud heritage on the field no matter how you spin it.

For the record, I am defining proud heritage as a success on the field, not so-called character, not "niceness", none of that intangible crap. No one is going to go see bunch of nice losers play. Sorry all of you high horse character guys, but that's life in America.

So, from my perspective whether you like PJ or not, I'd be careful about wishing him away too quickly. I'm hoping for at least one more year after this when I'm certain that Western will win a MAC championship.

Great post, too bad it falls on deaf ears to the 4-5 village idiots that truly need to hear it. It took me about 6 months or so of seeing him work up close to see that this thing was going to be success. I just had no idea it would be this soon. I'm still shocked at our turnaround this year. Don't think for a second that there aren't other A.D.'s out there keeping a VERY close eye on our team right now. I guarantee you Fleck's name is already in a few hats out there based on his recruiting success, and this season's turnaround alone.

My biggest fear is that we win 8-9 games, still don't win a MAC West or a MAC Championship, and then he gets the big bucks and leaves before this thing is completely established. It's the difference between where Toledo's program was at when Beckman left, and where NIU's program was at 1-2 years ago. One is stockpiled with talent but never completely made it over the hump (Toledo), the other built a strong foundation, had an exit strategy, and never seemed to miss a beat (NIU).

A part of me almost doesn't want us to win too quick because it'll all come crashing back down very quickly and we'll be right back to where we started. It can happen very fast. Which is scary, because I'm not sure I have the faith in our athletic dept. to conduct another search. I think we got extremely lucky this time around. The best thing we'd have going for us would be the inherited talent and improved facilities.

(10-26-2014 02:27 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 08:10 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  Be careful what you wish for

I know that a handful of you are hoping for quick success by the Broncos and a quick exit by PJ. Whatever your rationale, in many ways it's irrelevant to the larger issue of on the field success. It's true that all successful MAC coaches move up when the time comes and PJ will do the same. But know that we are in the Golden age of Bronco recruiting and that when PJ leaves that will end. PJ is not only best recruiter in the MAC right now, he might be the best of all time.

So, here is what will happen when PJ leaves? WMU will hire a new coach, he'll probably be competent, we've had a few over the years. The new guy will win with PJ's recruits for a few years. But…recruiting will drop off, how could it not, and Western will return to its mediocre foundations.

With respect to the proud heritage that another Bronco poster mentioned a few days ago, give me a break. While we have had some decent teams, the 1988 team and Tim Lester's era comes to mind, as does the Cubit team that went 9-4. However, three MAC titles in 60 or so years is not a proud heritage on the field no matter how you spin it.

For the record, I am defining proud heritage as a success on the field, not so-called character, not "niceness", none of that intangible crap. No one is going to go see bunch of nice losers play. Sorry all of you high horse character guys, but that's life in America.

So, from my perspective whether you like PJ or not, I'd be careful about wishing him away too quickly. I'm hoping for at least one more year after this when I'm certain that Western will win a MAC championship.

Great post, too bad it falls on deaf ears to the 4-5 village idiots that truly need to hear it. It took me about 6 months or so of seeing him work up close to see that this thing was going to be success. I just had no idea it would be this soon. I'm still shocked at our turnaround this year. Don't think for a second that there aren't other A.D.'s out there keeping a VERY close eye on our team right now. I guarantee you Fleck's name is already in a few hats out there based on his recruiting success, and this season's turnaround alone.

My biggest fear is that we win 8-9 games, still don't win a MAC West or a MAC Championship, and then he gets the big bucks and leaves before this thing is completely established. It's the difference between where Toledo's program was at when Beckman left, and where NIU's program was at 1-2 years ago. One is stockpiled with talent but never completely made it over the hump (Toledo), the other built a strong foundation, had an exit strategy, and never seemed to miss a beat (NIU).

A part of me almost doesn't want us to win too quick because it'll all come crashing back down very quickly and we'll be right back to where we started. It can happen very fast. Which is scary, because I'm not sure I have the faith in our athletic dept. to conduct another search. I think we got extremely lucky this time around. The best thing we'd have going for us would be the inherited talent and improved facilities.

A real fan would want us to win as fast and and often as we can. You're not a fan of the program, you're just a fan of PJ.

(10-26-2014 02:27 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 08:10 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  Be careful what you wish for

I know that a handful of you are hoping for quick success by the Broncos and a quick exit by PJ. Whatever your rationale, in many ways it's irrelevant to the larger issue of on the field success. It's true that all successful MAC coaches move up when the time comes and PJ will do the same. But know that we are in the Golden age of Bronco recruiting and that when PJ leaves that will end. PJ is not only best recruiter in the MAC right now, he might be the best of all time.

So, here is what will happen when PJ leaves? WMU will hire a new coach, he'll probably be competent, we've had a few over the years. The new guy will win with PJ's recruits for a few years. But…recruiting will drop off, how could it not, and Western will return to its mediocre foundations.

With respect to the proud heritage that another Bronco poster mentioned a few days ago, give me a break. While we have had some decent teams, the 1988 team and Tim Lester's era comes to mind, as does the Cubit team that went 9-4. However, three MAC titles in 60 or so years is not a proud heritage on the field no matter how you spin it.

For the record, I am defining proud heritage as a success on the field, not so-called character, not "niceness", none of that intangible crap. No one is going to go see bunch of nice losers play. Sorry all of you high horse character guys, but that's life in America.

So, from my perspective whether you like PJ or not, I'd be careful about wishing him away too quickly. I'm hoping for at least one more year after this when I'm certain that Western will win a MAC championship.

Great post, too bad it falls on deaf ears to the 4-5 village idiots that truly need to hear it. It took me about 6 months or so of seeing him work up close to see that this thing was going to be success. I just had no idea it would be this soon. I'm still shocked at our turnaround this year. Don't think for a second that there aren't other A.D.'s out there keeping a VERY close eye on our team right now. I guarantee you Fleck's name is already in a few hats out there based on his recruiting success, and this season's turnaround alone.

My biggest fear is that we win 8-9 games, still don't win a MAC West or a MAC Championship, and then he gets the big bucks and leaves before this thing is completely established. It's the difference between where Toledo's program was at when Beckman left, and where NIU's program was at 1-2 years ago. One is stockpiled with talent but never completely made it over the hump (Toledo), the other built a strong foundation, had an exit strategy, and never seemed to miss a beat (NIU).

A part of me almost doesn't want us to win too quick because it'll all come crashing back down very quickly and we'll be right back to where we started. It can happen very fast. Which is scary, because I'm not sure I have the faith in our athletic dept. to conduct another search. I think we got extremely lucky this time around. The best thing we'd have going for us would be the inherited talent and improved facilities.

One benefit might actually be that we don't have a strong incentive to promote from within though. If you look at the MAC programs that backslide after a coach leaves it usually* involves a knee jerk in house promotion. PJ has surrounded himself with mostly experienced coaches who haven't been thought of as potential head coaches throughout their careers or coaches that are too young and inexperienced. I'd rather have a Jerry Kill than a Rod Carrey if that unfortunate scenario plays out.