The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Be careful what you wish for

I know that a handful of you are hoping for quick success by the Broncos and a quick exit by PJ. Whatever your rationale, in many ways it's irrelevant to the larger issue of on the field success. It's true that all successful MAC coaches move up when the time comes and PJ will do the same. But know that we are in the Golden age of Bronco recruiting and that when PJ leaves that will end. PJ is not only best recruiter in the MAC right now, he might be the best of all time.

So, here is what will happen when PJ leaves? WMU will hire a new coach, he'll probably be competent, we've had a few over the years. The new guy will win with PJ's recruits for a few years. But…recruiting will drop off, how could it not, and Western will return to its mediocre foundations.

With respect to the proud heritage that another Bronco poster mentioned a few days ago, give me a break. While we have had some decent teams, the 1988 team and Tim Lester's era comes to mind, as does the Cubit team that went 9-4. However, three MAC titles in 60 or so years is not a proud heritage on the field no matter how you spin it.

For the record, I am defining proud heritage as a success on the field, not so-called character, not "niceness", none of that intangible crap. No one is going to go see bunch of nice losers play. Sorry all of you high horse character guys, but that's life in America.

So, from my perspective whether you like PJ or not, I'd be careful about wishing him away too quickly. I'm hoping for at least one more year after this when I'm certain that Western will win a MAC championship.

I think PJ put the "cart before the horse" with all the videos and mantras and the over the top proclamations. Maybe he knew he could walk the walk at the time he talked the talk. But now that he is winning and the talent level is obvious, his excitement is acceptable, for the most part to the "long timers". I don't think anyone wants him to go fast now. Oh maybe a few, but now the new reality is that, how will he stay when the big money offer comes in? Would be great to dream this could be a Boise St or even a, dread the words, Marshall type program. Say what you want about Marshall, they have been able to stay at a high level, acceptably high, for many years.

The interesting thing here... is that for Fleck you have to wonder if he is getting more out the situation here at WMU because he has COMPLETE control over the entire re-build of this team... and the potential for this team in the future. He keeps talking about building the proper FOUNDATION from which WMU will continue to grow. He has extremely high hopes for where he can take WMU... and I almost think he's just that narcissistic to actual stick around longer than people think... He want's to prove he was right when he came here and made all of those crazy predictions for the future of this team... I think if Dunn and Beauregard give hime moderate pay raises, and championship based incentive plans he will stick around. Lets just wait and see if he can keep the momentum going...

After next season we will have to pony up some big bucks or lose him. At this pace we will win the MAC next year.

That's part of the deal. You all said that's what you wanted when we made this change, and, you were willing to go through this cycle. Remember?

It's not so much what I wish for, it's the reality of the day. Maybe the next guy will be even a better recruiter.

(10-26-2014 09:11 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  That's part of the deal. You all said that's what you wanted when we made this change, and, you were willing to go through this cycle. Remember?

It's not so much what I wish for, it's the reality of the day. Maybe the next guy will be even a better recruiter.

Nothing new going on here... it happens everywhere. Would you rather have a Cubit type coach that gets you to bowl games once in awhile and never gets you a MAC Championship... but sticks around for a bunch of years? Or an up and coming coach that can put you in the MAC championship game... and win it? Even if that means he moves on? SO yes... if what you wish for is MAC championships... then I guess you have to also accept the coaching carousel that follows it...

^ Exactly. Point is, it's not me wishing for it, it's part of the gig.

So should I quit hoping that we win so he stays?

Why would anyone want anything less than championship football? Get the best coach you can afford ask him to get the players he can and try to win as many games as you can. It's really simple. You don't let a mediocre coach hang around with a faltering program because you like his style and you don't obsess over losing a coach to a better paying job if he's too successful.

There Ya go! So I want to win as much as possible as soon as possible. Let the rest play out as it will.

I really doubt PJ gets picked after this year. After all, he did go 1-11 last year. An AD would have to explain why he is hiring a real young coach, with only two years experience, and who has a losing record.

I would like to think that PJ really would love to build a legacy in Kalamazoo, and truly put us on the map, in a way analagus to the Boise situation. Buy reality is that MAC coaches with great success leave. Just the way it is. I don't think it will happen after this year though.

Depends on how the rest of the season plays out, doesn't it Brovol?

Ironic that Fleck's supporters didn't want to hear about former WMU coaches that improved record radically in their first (Darnell, Cubit) or second (Doo, Uzelac, Molde) seasons.

That was all in the past...program is too broken...not fair to compare...no way can we expect PJ to do that. 3-9, 4-8 at best.

Oh ye of little faith.

Now that we're 5-3 (two Ws over MAC-East, one FCS, one 1-6 FBS) Happy Days Are Here Again and MAC Championship is just around the corner.

Improvement in the team is obvious and winning beats the alternative, regardless of who we're playing.

Staff and team deserve all praise for turnaround thus far.

Weren't those the same types that wanted ZT's head on a platter at the beginning of the season?

(10-26-2014 09:57 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Ironic that Fleck's supporters didn't want to hear about former WMU coaches that improved record radically in their first (Darnell, Cubit) or second (Doo, Uzelac, Molde) seasons.

That was all in the past...program is too broken...not fair to compare...no way can we expect PJ to do that. 3-9, 4-8 at best.

Oh ye of little faith.

Now that we're 5-3 (two Ws over MAC-East, one FCS, one 1-6 FBS) Happy Days Are Here Again and MAC Championship is just around the corner.

Improvement in the team is obvious and winning beats the alternative, regardless of who we're playing.

Staff and team deserve all praise for turnaround thus far.

I agree with you, and flecks impact was clearly not great out of the gate. And many coaches have had solid starts. I really liked cubit the entire time he was here.

What I will say though is that I like the foundation that PJ is establishing, from the recruiting philosophy, to the way he keeps the players motivated, even during a real disappointing season, when a lot of teams would have hung thier heads. One of the ways he has done this is through his preaching; including row the boat, which I have never objected to.

I doubt I would enjoy hanging g out with PJ. Appears somewhat self absorbed at least on the surface, but he is,also motivated. He connects to the players, and to potential players. I don't care if he would make a good buddy though. Just build this program.

I must also say, PJ did a nice job picking his coordinators. I think they are perfect for our situation.

This isn't about whether PJ is better or worse than any other coach we have had. Its whether we are in good shape with him as our current coach. I am glad we have him.

(10-26-2014 09:11 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  That's part of the deal. You all said that's what you wanted when we made this change, and, you were willing to go through this cycle. Remember?

It's not so much what I wish for, it's the reality of the day. Maybe the next guy will be even a better recruiter.

Yeah, and maybe Dip, Brovol, Carl Rove and I will create a conservative think tank.

(10-26-2014 10:29 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 09:11 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  That's part of the deal. You all said that's what you wanted when we made this change, and, you were willing to go through this cycle. Remember?

It's not so much what I wish for, it's the reality of the day. Maybe the next guy will be even a better recruiter.

Yeah, and maybe Dip, Brovol, Carl Rove and I will create a conservative think tank.

Right, because his recruiting is that far off the charts? Is that what you're saying?

Start of yet another conversation. How does he do it, it's uncanny how he can be a first year ever anywhere HC, and come in, go 1-11, and pull players like this to play here.

If he goes somewhere and duplicates that, he'll be at ND before the end of his career. Another Lou Holtz.

(10-26-2014 10:31 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 10:29 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 09:11 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  That's part of the deal. You all said that's what you wanted when we made this change, and, you were willing to go through this cycle. Remember?

It's not so much what I wish for, it's the reality of the day. Maybe the next guy will be even a better recruiter.

Yeah, and maybe Dip, Brovol, Carl Rove and I will create a conservative think tank.

Right, because his recruiting is that far off the charts? Is that what you're saying?

Start of yet another conversation. How does he do it, it's uncanny how he can be a first year ever anywhere HC, and come in, go 1-11, and pull players like this to play here.

If he goes somewhere and duplicates that, he'll be at ND before the end of his career. Another Lou Holtz.

Yup (still waiting for return calls from Carl, Dip and Brovol-- that should happen around the same time wmu hires a better recruiter than PJ )

That would be the most boring conversation ever, sorry BC. You couldn't even liven that bunch up with those three Eyores.

It wont be this year... and it probably wont be next year... but eventually PJ is going to leave WMU for a larger school with deeper pockets and more visibility. It's how we handle the giant PJ/RTB/ROW/DJ Ill Mix vacuum that will be created by him leaving that defines how this FOUNDATION holds up... I almost think that the next coach will actually pick up the RTB and run with it... I also think that we go after another really young energetic guy with NFL roots... it just makes more sense.

You show these kids you know what the NFL wants... it goes a long way.

(10-26-2014 10:35 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  It wont be this year... and it probably wont be next year... but eventually PJ is going to leave WMU for a larger school with deeper pockets and more visibility. It's how we handle the giant PJ/RTB/ROW/DJ Ill Mix vacuum that will be created by him leaving that defines how this FOUNDATION holds up... I almost think that the next coach will actually pick up the RTB and run with it... I also think that we go after another really young energetic guy with NFL roots... it just makes more sense.

You show these kids you know what the NFL wants... it goes a long way.

I think the next new sensation good vibration guy should be afforded the luxury of having his own saying.