(10-23-2014 08:46 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The death penalty is needed imo, but Carolina Stang probably summed up the situation well.

The death penalty is not needed. UNC cheated. UNC trustees need to do what NCSU did after Valvano- They need to raise the academic standards to the highest in the ACC, clean up the program, and, eventually, loosen the standards to compete again.

NC State, who did nothing on this level, has been asleep for over 20 years. Only after hiring Sydney Lowe, who eventually was fired, did NC State give the basketball program the recruiting rope to compete for top players.

UNC has always held itself out as the model program in the nation. Sort of, an heir to John Wooden and UCLA's program. Obviously, it wasn't.

I am interested in any sources that show that Matt Dougherty tried to clean this up. Dougherty left Notre Dame and was involved in an athletic department that attempts to 'do the right thing' and educate their students. I am sure he had access to resources that could have helped. Unfortunately, Matt had his own challenges and the players quit on him.

(10-24-2014 09:53 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  South Carolina has taken over the Carolinas basketball market? Who knew? That is one hell of a claim and I highly doubt it's veracity.

Try googling some stories about why South Carolina left the ACC. From the Gamecocks point of view, UNC did what they could to keep USC in check.

In addition, the ACC, with UNC's support, penalized Clemson football under Danny Ford much more severely than the NCAA requested. Look up that, too.

UNC is not Texas but the Tar Heels influence in the ACC is accepted.

(10-27-2014 04:12 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-23-2014 08:46 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The death penalty is needed imo, but Carolina Stang probably summed up the situation well.

The death penalty is not needed. UNC cheated. UNC trustees need to do what NCSU did after Valvano- They need to raise the academic standards to the highest in the ACC, clean up the program, and, eventually, loosen the standards to compete again.

NC State, who did nothing on this level, has been asleep for over 20 years. Only after hiring Sydney Lowe, who eventually was fired, did NC State give the basketball program the recruiting rope to compete for top players.

UNC has always held itself out as the model program in the nation. Sort of, an heir to John Wooden and UCLA's program. Obviously, it wasn't.

I am interested in any sources that show that Matt Dougherty tried to clean this up. Dougherty left Notre Dame and was involved in an athletic department that attempts to 'do the right thing' and educate their students. I am sure he had access to resources that could have helped. Unfortunately, Matt had his own challenges and the players quit on him.

I disagree. This is academic fraud on a scale never before seen that went on for 2 decades, at a school that has always talked about what high academic standards the school and their conference hold. The head of the ACC was one of the people in charge at UNC at the time this began, and one of his jobs is to oversee the academics of the student athletes in his charge. He failed miserably, and the whole affair shows hypocrisy of the highest order.

If the NCAA has any integrity left they should shut down UNC's athletic dept. for at least one year. Then they should impose probation once the athletic dept resumes operation, as well as a reduction in scholarships for all athletic programs for the duration of their probation. They should also have an outside observer to oversee the conduct of all athletic programs - and the academic progress of all UNC athletes during the length of its probationary period.

Allowing the university to correct a few minor issues, and then go on like nothing has happened is NOT how you send a message. You send a message by dealing with the issue in the strongest manner possible, even if it hits one of the most successful programs around. You should do it especially because they are one of the most successful programs. It sends a message that is understood by everyone.

The NCAA has no credibility at this point. Doing what I suggest would go a long way to restoring some of it.

(10-27-2014 04:28 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 04:12 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-23-2014 08:46 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The death penalty is needed imo, but Carolina Stang probably summed up the situation well.

The death penalty is not needed. UNC cheated. UNC trustees need to do what NCSU did after Valvano- They need to raise the academic standards to the highest in the ACC, clean up the program, and, eventually, loosen the standards to compete again.

NC State, who did nothing on this level, has been asleep for over 20 years. Only after hiring Sydney Lowe, who eventually was fired, did NC State give the basketball program the recruiting rope to compete for top players.

UNC has always held itself out as the model program in the nation. Sort of, an heir to John Wooden and UCLA's program. Obviously, it wasn't.

I am interested in any sources that show that Matt Dougherty tried to clean this up. Dougherty left Notre Dame and was involved in an athletic department that attempts to 'do the right thing' and educate their students. I am sure he had access to resources that could have helped. Unfortunately, Matt had his own challenges and the players quit on him.

I disagree. This is academic fraud on a scale never before seen that went on for 2 decades, at a school that has always talked about what high academic standards the school and their conference hold. The head of the ACC was one of the people in charge at UNC at the time this began, and one of his jobs is to oversee the academics of the student athletes in his charge. He failed miserably, and the whole affair shows hypocrisy of the highest order.

If the NCAA has any integrity left they should shut down UNC's athletic dept. for at least one year. Then they should impose probation once the athletic dept resumes operation, as well as a reduction in scholarships for all athletic programs for the duration of their probation. They should also have an outside observer to oversee the conduct of all athletic programs - and the academic progress of all UNC athletes during the length of its probationary period.

Allowing the university to correct a few minor issues, and then go on like nothing has happened is NOT how you send a message. You send a message by dealing with the issue in the strongest manner possible, even if it hits one of the most successful programs around. You should do it especially because they are one of the most successful programs. It sends a message that is understood by everyone.

The NCAA has no credibility at this point. Doing what I suggest would go a long way to restoring some of it.

While I respect what you are saying but if the NCAA did not shut down Penn State for a few years, they are not going to shut down UNC. UNC needs to do what Penn State, the school, did not do. The university needs to take control of the situation and ensure the institution is what it is meant to be- an institution of higher learning with academic integrity. The university needs to raise the academic standards of the players for a few years, regain control of the situation, and live to fight another day.

The NCAA gets to do the meaningless task of having UNC vacate 18 years worth of wins and place the school on probation Oh, boy!

Minnesota's punishment is a good outline of what should take place by the NCAA. NC State's approach is a good way for the university to regain control.

(10-27-2014 04:28 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 04:12 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-23-2014 08:46 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The death penalty is needed imo, but Carolina Stang probably summed up the situation well.

The death penalty is not needed. UNC cheated. UNC trustees need to do what NCSU did after Valvano- They need to raise the academic standards to the highest in the ACC, clean up the program, and, eventually, loosen the standards to compete again.

NC State, who did nothing on this level, has been asleep for over 20 years. Only after hiring Sydney Lowe, who eventually was fired, did NC State give the basketball program the recruiting rope to compete for top players.

UNC has always held itself out as the model program in the nation. Sort of, an heir to John Wooden and UCLA's program. Obviously, it wasn't.

I am interested in any sources that show that Matt Dougherty tried to clean this up. Dougherty left Notre Dame and was involved in an athletic department that attempts to 'do the right thing' and educate their students. I am sure he had access to resources that could have helped. Unfortunately, Matt had his own challenges and the players quit on him.

I disagree. This is academic fraud on a scale never before seen that went on for 2 decades, at a school that has always talked about what high academic standards the school and their conference hold. The head of the ACC was one of the people in charge at UNC at the time this began, and one of his jobs is to oversee the academics of the student athletes in his charge. He failed miserably, and the whole affair shows hypocrisy of the highest order.

If the NCAA has any integrity left they should shut down UNC's athletic dept. for at least one year. Then they should impose probation once the athletic dept resumes operation, as well as a reduction in scholarships for all athletic programs for the duration of their probation. They should also have an outside observer to oversee the conduct of all athletic programs - and the academic progress of all UNC athletes during the length of its probationary period.

Allowing the university to correct a few minor issues, and then go on like nothing has happened is NOT how you send a message. You send a message by dealing with the issue in the strongest manner possible, even if it hits one of the most successful programs around. You should do it especially because they are one of the most successful programs. It sends a message that is understood by everyone.

The NCAA has no credibility at this point. Doing what I suggest would go a long way to restoring some of it.

Bit the dirty little secret here that nobody wants to respond to is "Lack of Institutional Control" which can impact accreditation. North Carolina is at minimum guilty of a severe breech of Institutional Diligence. At worst they are criminally guilty of conspiracy to commit fraud. It's a big deal whether people want to admit it or not. And at stake here is the credibility of higher education's ability to police itself as well as the the last bit of credibility to which the NCAA can lay claim. The stakes are big all the way around and that is why I don't think this gets swept under any rug, no matter how big and dirty the rug is.

(10-27-2014 04:12 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-23-2014 08:46 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The death penalty is needed imo, but Carolina Stang probably summed up the situation well.

The death penalty is not needed. UNC cheated. UNC trustees need to do what NCSU did after Valvano- They need to raise the academic standards to the highest in the ACC, clean up the program, and, eventually, loosen the standards to compete again.

NC State, who did nothing on this level, has been asleep for over 20 years. Only after hiring Sydney Lowe, who eventually was fired, did NC State give the basketball program the recruiting rope to compete for top players.

UNC has always held itself out as the model program in the nation. Sort of, an heir to John Wooden and UCLA's program. Obviously, it wasn't.

I am interested in any sources that show that Matt Dougherty tried to clean this up. Dougherty left Notre Dame and was involved in an athletic department that attempts to 'do the right thing' and educate their students. I am sure he had access to resources that could have helped. Unfortunately, Matt had his own challenges and the players quit on him.

I can assure you that the UNC BOT will not do what NC State did, nor will the UNC Board of Governors make the UNC BOT do what NC State did. NC State basketball players had to establish eligibility every semester, not NCAA level eligiblity, but NC State School of Engineering eligibity for graduation - 2.0 on at least 12 hours, every semester. Several kids were suspended for 1.8's or just passing 4 of 5 classes.

This because some of the players sold their shoes and complimentary tickets because no one was greasing their palms, and for admitting 3-4 knuckleheads who never intended to be students or graduate. People forget that Chris Washburn flunked out after just 3 semesters. Yet his contemporary who also did not bother to really take an SAT, Kevin Madden at UNC, was given a degree.

No, UNC will not do what NC State did, kill the basketball program for 20 years. Nor will UNC hire people tied to UNC to oversee the dismantling of their program. Of course the UNC Board of Governors could do what they wanted to NC State back in the early 90's and they did, in order to boost Smith whose program had fallen behind Duke's and NC State's.

It will be interesting to see what the BOG does to penalize NC State, East Carolina, and App State for what UNC-ch did.

(10-27-2014 05:31 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 04:12 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-23-2014 08:46 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The death penalty is needed imo, but Carolina Stang probably summed up the situation well.

The death penalty is not needed. UNC cheated. UNC trustees need to do what NCSU did after Valvano- They need to raise the academic standards to the highest in the ACC, clean up the program, and, eventually, loosen the standards to compete again.

NC State, who did nothing on this level, has been asleep for over 20 years. Only after hiring Sydney Lowe, who eventually was fired, did NC State give the basketball program the recruiting rope to compete for top players.

UNC has always held itself out as the model program in the nation. Sort of, an heir to John Wooden and UCLA's program. Obviously, it wasn't.

I am interested in any sources that show that Matt Dougherty tried to clean this up. Dougherty left Notre Dame and was involved in an athletic department that attempts to 'do the right thing' and educate their students. I am sure he had access to resources that could have helped. Unfortunately, Matt had his own challenges and the players quit on him.

I can assure you that the UNC BOT will not do what NC State did, nor will the UNC Board of Governors make the UNC BOT do what NC State did. NC State basketball players had to establish eligibility every semester, not NCAA level eligiblity, but NC State School of Engineering eligibity for graduation - 2.0 on at least 12 hours, every semester. Several kids were suspended for 1.8's or just passing 4 of 5 classes.

This because some of the players sold their shoes and complimentary tickets because no one was greasing their palms, and for admitting 3-4 knuckleheads who never intended to be students or graduate. People forget that Chris Washburn flunked out after just 3 semesters. Yet his contemporary who also did not bother to really take an SAT, Kevin Madden at UNC, was given a degree.

No, UNC will not do what NC State did, kill the basketball program for 20 years. Nor will UNC hire people tied to UNC to oversee the dismantling of their program. Of course the UNC Board of Governors could do what they wanted to NC State back in the early 90's and they did, in order to boost Smith whose program had fallen behind Duke's and NC State's.

It will be interesting to see what the BOG does to penalize NC State, East Carolina, and App State for what UNC-ch did.

Could NC State, East Carolina, and UNC-Charlotte take control of the University of North Carolina system and force UNC-Chapel Hill to share the power going forward because of this event? If the UNC system is really one big university, UNC-Chapel Hill puts the entire system at risk because the school failed to meet their responsibilities.

(10-27-2014 05:49 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 05:31 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 04:12 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-23-2014 08:46 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The death penalty is needed imo, but Carolina Stang probably summed up the situation well.

The death penalty is not needed. UNC cheated. UNC trustees need to do what NCSU did after Valvano- They need to raise the academic standards to the highest in the ACC, clean up the program, and, eventually, loosen the standards to compete again.

NC State, who did nothing on this level, has been asleep for over 20 years. Only after hiring Sydney Lowe, who eventually was fired, did NC State give the basketball program the recruiting rope to compete for top players.

UNC has always held itself out as the model program in the nation. Sort of, an heir to John Wooden and UCLA's program. Obviously, it wasn't.

I am interested in any sources that show that Matt Dougherty tried to clean this up. Dougherty left Notre Dame and was involved in an athletic department that attempts to 'do the right thing' and educate their students. I am sure he had access to resources that could have helped. Unfortunately, Matt had his own challenges and the players quit on him.

I can assure you that the UNC BOT will not do what NC State did, nor will the UNC Board of Governors make the UNC BOT do what NC State did. NC State basketball players had to establish eligibility every semester, not NCAA level eligiblity, but NC State School of Engineering eligibity for graduation - 2.0 on at least 12 hours, every semester. Several kids were suspended for 1.8's or just passing 4 of 5 classes.

This because some of the players sold their shoes and complimentary tickets because no one was greasing their palms, and for admitting 3-4 knuckleheads who never intended to be students or graduate. People forget that Chris Washburn flunked out after just 3 semesters. Yet his contemporary who also did not bother to really take an SAT, Kevin Madden at UNC, was given a degree.

No, UNC will not do what NC State did, kill the basketball program for 20 years. Nor will UNC hire people tied to UNC to oversee the dismantling of their program. Of course the UNC Board of Governors could do what they wanted to NC State back in the early 90's and they did, in order to boost Smith whose program had fallen behind Duke's and NC State's.

It will be interesting to see what the BOG does to penalize NC State, East Carolina, and App State for what UNC-ch did.

Could NC State, East Carolina, and UNC-Charlotte take control of the University of North Carolina system and force UNC-Chapel Hill to share the power going forward because of this event? If the UNC system is really one big university, UNC-Chapel Hill puts the entire system at risk because the school failed to meet their responsibilities.

Lmfao. Are you serious here? You've been in Chicago too long if you this is even remotely possible. More likely is that UNC puts unreasonable standards in place and forces all UNC systems to follow them.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(10-27-2014 04:51 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 04:28 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 04:12 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-23-2014 08:46 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The death penalty is needed imo, but Carolina Stang probably summed up the situation well.

The death penalty is not needed. UNC cheated. UNC trustees need to do what NCSU did after Valvano- They need to raise the academic standards to the highest in the ACC, clean up the program, and, eventually, loosen the standards to compete again.

NC State, who did nothing on this level, has been asleep for over 20 years. Only after hiring Sydney Lowe, who eventually was fired, did NC State give the basketball program the recruiting rope to compete for top players.

UNC has always held itself out as the model program in the nation. Sort of, an heir to John Wooden and UCLA's program. Obviously, it wasn't.

I am interested in any sources that show that Matt Dougherty tried to clean this up. Dougherty left Notre Dame and was involved in an athletic department that attempts to 'do the right thing' and educate their students. I am sure he had access to resources that could have helped. Unfortunately, Matt had his own challenges and the players quit on him.

I disagree. This is academic fraud on a scale never before seen that went on for 2 decades, at a school that has always talked about what high academic standards the school and their conference hold. The head of the ACC was one of the people in charge at UNC at the time this began, and one of his jobs is to oversee the academics of the student athletes in his charge. He failed miserably, and the whole affair shows hypocrisy of the highest order.

If the NCAA has any integrity left they should shut down UNC's athletic dept. for at least one year. Then they should impose probation once the athletic dept resumes operation, as well as a reduction in scholarships for all athletic programs for the duration of their probation. They should also have an outside observer to oversee the conduct of all athletic programs - and the academic progress of all UNC athletes during the length of its probationary period.

Allowing the university to correct a few minor issues, and then go on like nothing has happened is NOT how you send a message. You send a message by dealing with the issue in the strongest manner possible, even if it hits one of the most successful programs around. You should do it especially because they are one of the most successful programs. It sends a message that is understood by everyone.

The NCAA has no credibility at this point. Doing what I suggest would go a long way to restoring some of it.

While I respect what you are saying but if the NCAA did not shut down Penn State for a few years, they are not going to shut down UNC. UNC needs to do what Penn State, the school, did not do. The university needs to take control of the situation and ensure the institution is what it is meant to be- an institution of higher learning with academic integrity. The university needs to raise the academic standards of the players for a few years, regain control of the situation, and live to fight another day.

The NCAA gets to do the meaningless task of having UNC vacate 18 years worth of wins and place the school on probation Oh, boy!

Minnesota's punishment is a good outline of what should take place by the NCAA. NC State's approach is a good way for the university to regain control.

The problem is that the UNC administration has taken control. They have been doing everything they can to intimidate and silence Mary Willingham.

Their cheating was on an unprecedented scale and their attack on people telling the truth was unprecedented since the Jan Kemp case at Georgia.

(10-27-2014 04:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 04:28 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 04:12 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-23-2014 08:46 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The death penalty is needed imo, but Carolina Stang probably summed up the situation well.

The death penalty is not needed. UNC cheated. UNC trustees need to do what NCSU did after Valvano- They need to raise the academic standards to the highest in the ACC, clean up the program, and, eventually, loosen the standards to compete again.

NC State, who did nothing on this level, has been asleep for over 20 years. Only after hiring Sydney Lowe, who eventually was fired, did NC State give the basketball program the recruiting rope to compete for top players.

UNC has always held itself out as the model program in the nation. Sort of, an heir to John Wooden and UCLA's program. Obviously, it wasn't.

I am interested in any sources that show that Matt Dougherty tried to clean this up. Dougherty left Notre Dame and was involved in an athletic department that attempts to 'do the right thing' and educate their students. I am sure he had access to resources that could have helped. Unfortunately, Matt had his own challenges and the players quit on him.

I disagree. This is academic fraud on a scale never before seen that went on for 2 decades, at a school that has always talked about what high academic standards the school and their conference hold. The head of the ACC was one of the people in charge at UNC at the time this began, and one of his jobs is to oversee the academics of the student athletes in his charge. He failed miserably, and the whole affair shows hypocrisy of the highest order.

If the NCAA has any integrity left they should shut down UNC's athletic dept. for at least one year. Then they should impose probation once the athletic dept resumes operation, as well as a reduction in scholarships for all athletic programs for the duration of their probation. They should also have an outside observer to oversee the conduct of all athletic programs - and the academic progress of all UNC athletes during the length of its probationary period.

Allowing the university to correct a few minor issues, and then go on like nothing has happened is NOT how you send a message. You send a message by dealing with the issue in the strongest manner possible, even if it hits one of the most successful programs around. You should do it especially because they are one of the most successful programs. It sends a message that is understood by everyone.

The NCAA has no credibility at this point. Doing what I suggest would go a long way to restoring some of it.

Bit the dirty little secret here that nobody wants to respond to is "Lack of Institutional Control" which can impact accreditation. North Carolina is at minimum guilty of a severe breech of Institutional Diligence. At worst they are criminally guilty of conspiracy to commit fraud. It's a big deal whether people want to admit it or not. And at stake here is the credibility of higher education's ability to police itself as well as the the last bit of credibility to which the NCAA can lay claim. The stakes are big all the way around and that is why I don't think this gets swept under any rug, no matter how big and dirty the rug is.

Emmert has been trying hard to ignore it.

The Gurley case really highlights the hypocrisy of the NCAA. Cam Newton gets shopped around to at least Mississippi St. if not others and gets reinstated in a day with no penalties. Johnny Manziel did the same thing as Gurley and gets his penalty reduced almost immediately to 1/2 game.

Georgia tries to do things right and its already been two games and about 3 or 4 days since they requested reinstatement and no response from the NCAA, when a two game penalty is the norm for improper benefits under $1000.

The message they are sending is to just deny, deny, deny.

They don't seem to understand is that UNC blows a total hole in the amateur student-athlete claim. Doing nothing, like they are trying to do, dooms them to total defeat on amateurism.

(10-27-2014 06:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 04:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 04:28 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 04:12 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-23-2014 08:46 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The death penalty is needed imo, but Carolina Stang probably summed up the situation well.

The death penalty is not needed. UNC cheated. UNC trustees need to do what NCSU did after Valvano- They need to raise the academic standards to the highest in the ACC, clean up the program, and, eventually, loosen the standards to compete again.

NC State, who did nothing on this level, has been asleep for over 20 years. Only after hiring Sydney Lowe, who eventually was fired, did NC State give the basketball program the recruiting rope to compete for top players.

UNC has always held itself out as the model program in the nation. Sort of, an heir to John Wooden and UCLA's program. Obviously, it wasn't.

I am interested in any sources that show that Matt Dougherty tried to clean this up. Dougherty left Notre Dame and was involved in an athletic department that attempts to 'do the right thing' and educate their students. I am sure he had access to resources that could have helped. Unfortunately, Matt had his own challenges and the players quit on him.

I disagree. This is academic fraud on a scale never before seen that went on for 2 decades, at a school that has always talked about what high academic standards the school and their conference hold. The head of the ACC was one of the people in charge at UNC at the time this began, and one of his jobs is to oversee the academics of the student athletes in his charge. He failed miserably, and the whole affair shows hypocrisy of the highest order.

If the NCAA has any integrity left they should shut down UNC's athletic dept. for at least one year. Then they should impose probation once the athletic dept resumes operation, as well as a reduction in scholarships for all athletic programs for the duration of their probation. They should also have an outside observer to oversee the conduct of all athletic programs - and the academic progress of all UNC athletes during the length of its probationary period.

Allowing the university to correct a few minor issues, and then go on like nothing has happened is NOT how you send a message. You send a message by dealing with the issue in the strongest manner possible, even if it hits one of the most successful programs around. You should do it especially because they are one of the most successful programs. It sends a message that is understood by everyone.

The NCAA has no credibility at this point. Doing what I suggest would go a long way to restoring some of it.

Bit the dirty little secret here that nobody wants to respond to is "Lack of Institutional Control" which can impact accreditation. North Carolina is at minimum guilty of a severe breech of Institutional Diligence. At worst they are criminally guilty of conspiracy to commit fraud. It's a big deal whether people want to admit it or not. And at stake here is the credibility of higher education's ability to police itself as well as the the last bit of credibility to which the NCAA can lay claim. The stakes are big all the way around and that is why I don't think this gets swept under any rug, no matter how big and dirty the rug is.

Emmert has been trying hard to ignore it.

The Gurley case really highlights the hypocrisy of the NCAA. Cam Newton gets shopped around to at least Mississippi St. if not others and gets reinstated in a day with no penalties. Johnny Manziel did the same thing as Gurley and gets his penalty reduced almost immediately to 1/2 game.

Georgia tries to do things right and its already been two games and about 3 or 4 days since they requested reinstatement and no response from the NCAA, when a two game penalty is the norm for improper benefits under $1000.

The message they are sending is to just deny, deny, deny.

They don't seem to understand is that UNC blows a total hole in the amateur student-athlete claim. Doing nothing, like they are trying to do, dooms them to total defeat on amateurism.

I totally agree on all counts. If we don't want congress poking their nose into college sports then it's time for the NCAA to grow a pair and handle this effectively. And that's just on the probation side of things. I would think the legal system is going to have to handle a goodly portion of it.

(10-27-2014 06:02 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 05:49 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 05:31 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 04:12 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-23-2014 08:46 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  The death penalty is needed imo, but Carolina Stang probably summed up the situation well.

The death penalty is not needed. UNC cheated. UNC trustees need to do what NCSU did after Valvano- They need to raise the academic standards to the highest in the ACC, clean up the program, and, eventually, loosen the standards to compete again.

NC State, who did nothing on this level, has been asleep for over 20 years. Only after hiring Sydney Lowe, who eventually was fired, did NC State give the basketball program the recruiting rope to compete for top players.

UNC has always held itself out as the model program in the nation. Sort of, an heir to John Wooden and UCLA's program. Obviously, it wasn't.

I am interested in any sources that show that Matt Dougherty tried to clean this up. Dougherty left Notre Dame and was involved in an athletic department that attempts to 'do the right thing' and educate their students. I am sure he had access to resources that could have helped. Unfortunately, Matt had his own challenges and the players quit on him.

I can assure you that the UNC BOT will not do what NC State did, nor will the UNC Board of Governors make the UNC BOT do what NC State did. NC State basketball players had to establish eligibility every semester, not NCAA level eligiblity, but NC State School of Engineering eligibity for graduation - 2.0 on at least 12 hours, every semester. Several kids were suspended for 1.8's or just passing 4 of 5 classes.

This because some of the players sold their shoes and complimentary tickets because no one was greasing their palms, and for admitting 3-4 knuckleheads who never intended to be students or graduate. People forget that Chris Washburn flunked out after just 3 semesters. Yet his contemporary who also did not bother to really take an SAT, Kevin Madden at UNC, was given a degree.

No, UNC will not do what NC State did, kill the basketball program for 20 years. Nor will UNC hire people tied to UNC to oversee the dismantling of their program. Of course the UNC Board of Governors could do what they wanted to NC State back in the early 90's and they did, in order to boost Smith whose program had fallen behind Duke's and NC State's.

It will be interesting to see what the BOG does to penalize NC State, East Carolina, and App State for what UNC-ch did.

Could NC State, East Carolina, and UNC-Charlotte take control of the University of North Carolina system and force UNC-Chapel Hill to share the power going forward because of this event? If the UNC system is really one big university, UNC-Chapel Hill puts the entire system at risk because the school failed to meet their responsibilities.

Lmfao. Are you serious here? You've been in Chicago too long if you this is even remotely possible. More likely is that UNC puts unreasonable standards in place and forces all UNC systems to follow them.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Not a chance in Hell. Too many NC State folks have UNC lawyers and bankers and without full NC State BOT support you have not shot. Even UNC-Charlotte can't get the attention of the Senate President and Governor - think about that for a moment.

Has the NCAA addressed this subject yet? Politicians must go after them! Could this justify a school getting out of the GOR clause on the grounds UNC is depreciating the other schools value.

(10-27-2014 04:12 PM)chess Wrote:  The death penalty is not needed. UNC cheated. UNC trustees need to do what NCSU did after Valvano- They need to raise the academic standards to the highest in the ACC, clean up the program, and, eventually, loosen the standards to compete again.

You're kidding, right? Your solution to this mess is to trust the cheaters to clean it up themselves? If that's the "punishment" the NCAA comes up with, the paper classes would be back in place the very next day. UNC lied and cheated for two decades, they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

(10-27-2014 09:24 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 06:02 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 05:49 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 05:31 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 04:12 PM)chess Wrote:  The death penalty is not needed. UNC cheated. UNC trustees need to do what NCSU did after Valvano- They need to raise the academic standards to the highest in the ACC, clean up the program, and, eventually, loosen the standards to compete again.

NC State, who did nothing on this level, has been asleep for over 20 years. Only after hiring Sydney Lowe, who eventually was fired, did NC State give the basketball program the recruiting rope to compete for top players.

UNC has always held itself out as the model program in the nation. Sort of, an heir to John Wooden and UCLA's program. Obviously, it wasn't.

I am interested in any sources that show that Matt Dougherty tried to clean this up. Dougherty left Notre Dame and was involved in an athletic department that attempts to 'do the right thing' and educate their students. I am sure he had access to resources that could have helped. Unfortunately, Matt had his own challenges and the players quit on him.

I can assure you that the UNC BOT will not do what NC State did, nor will the UNC Board of Governors make the UNC BOT do what NC State did. NC State basketball players had to establish eligibility every semester, not NCAA level eligiblity, but NC State School of Engineering eligibity for graduation - 2.0 on at least 12 hours, every semester. Several kids were suspended for 1.8's or just passing 4 of 5 classes.

This because some of the players sold their shoes and complimentary tickets because no one was greasing their palms, and for admitting 3-4 knuckleheads who never intended to be students or graduate. People forget that Chris Washburn flunked out after just 3 semesters. Yet his contemporary who also did not bother to really take an SAT, Kevin Madden at UNC, was given a degree.

No, UNC will not do what NC State did, kill the basketball program for 20 years. Nor will UNC hire people tied to UNC to oversee the dismantling of their program. Of course the UNC Board of Governors could do what they wanted to NC State back in the early 90's and they did, in order to boost Smith whose program had fallen behind Duke's and NC State's.

It will be interesting to see what the BOG does to penalize NC State, East Carolina, and App State for what UNC-ch did.

Could NC State, East Carolina, and UNC-Charlotte take control of the University of North Carolina system and force UNC-Chapel Hill to share the power going forward because of this event? If the UNC system is really one big university, UNC-Chapel Hill puts the entire system at risk because the school failed to meet their responsibilities.

Lmfao. Are you serious here? You've been in Chicago too long if you this is even remotely possible. More likely is that UNC puts unreasonable standards in place and forces all UNC systems to follow them.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Not a chance in Hell. Too many NC State folks have UNC lawyers and bankers and without full NC State BOT support you have not shot. Even UNC-Charlotte can't get the attention of the Senate President and Governor - think about that for a moment.

Well then, that's good news I guess.

Quote: One of the many questions that remains unanswered isn’t about the accusations, but rather the “review” itself. In 1989, the investigation was multi-faceted, including seperate inquiries by the NCAA, The Poole Commission, and also the Attorney General’s office into the University. So why is there no protocol for doing the same when accusations have been leveled against Carolina when, clearly, the precedent for this type of investigation exists?

State’s comparatively minor infractions and self-imposed sanctions left the program crippled, staggering along the ACC floor for a decade as it tried to recover.

Just imagine how bad it would’ve been if we’d done things “The Carolina Way.”

http://www.statefansnation.com/2010/09/s...f-the-law/

College President calls for UNC to lose accreditation

http://chronicle.com/blogs/conversation/...editation/

(10-28-2014 12:45 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  College President calls for UNC to lose accreditation

http://chronicle.com/blogs/conversation/...editation/

Macalester college - wow that's a heavy hitter.

(10-28-2014 01:05 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(10-28-2014 12:45 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  College President calls for UNC to lose accreditation

http://chronicle.com/blogs/conversation/...editation/

Macalester college - wow that's a heavy hitter.

Very well regarded Liberal Arts college. If he is saying it, I bet there are hundreds of college presidents that agree with him.

(10-28-2014 01:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(10-28-2014 01:05 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(10-28-2014 12:45 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  College President calls for UNC to lose accreditation

http://chronicle.com/blogs/conversation/...editation/

Macalester college - wow that's a heavy hitter.

Very well regarded Liberal Arts college. If he is saying it, I bet there are hundreds of college presidents that agree with him.

The bigger point here is that all of the other college presidents have to agree with him. Otherwise accreditation means nothing and that means that every online degree program is no worse and no better than what they have to offer at a much much higher cost. The future of on campus higher education everywhere is impacted if accreditation loses its efficacy.

North Carolina's position with regards to lack of institutional control is sports' penalties to the 10,000th degree more serious. If accreditation standards are not upheld all campus sites will suffer in the long run. If fraud is not punished the government institutions that regulate such lose all credibility. This is going to be taken extremely seriously by those agencies and boards. The NCAA is the least of their concerns at this point.

What is slowly going to sink in is that the Carolina Ram is going to become the Judas goat for the sins of everyone so that the status quo might be maintained and so that other guilty institutions have some cover under which to change their ways before they too are excoriated.