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That's how long that the athletic fraud at UNC has been going on.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/22/4.../100/&rh=1

“Between 1993 and 2011, Crowder and Nyang’oro developed and ran a ‘shadow curriculum’ within the AFAM Department that provided students with academically flawed instruction through the offering of ‘paper classes,’” the report said. “These were classes that involved no interaction with a faculty member, required no class attendance or course work other than a single paper, and resulted in consistently high grades that Crowder awarded without reading the papers or otherwise evaluating their true quality.”

Two counselors even suggested to Crowder what grades to give to the athletes. One of them, Jan Boxill, later became the faculty leader for UNC in 2011, just as the academic fraud became public."

Jan Boxill was president of the faculty senate and was suggesting specific grades for specific players.

In a lovely twist of irony, Boxill teaches Ethics.

(10-22-2014 04:37 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  That's how long that the athletic fraud at UNC has been going on.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/22/4.../100/&rh=1

“Between 1993 and 2011, Crowder and Nyang’oro developed and ran a ‘shadow curriculum’ within the AFAM Department that provided students with academically flawed instruction through the offering of ‘paper classes,’” the report said. “These were classes that involved no interaction with a faculty member, required no class attendance or course work other than a single paper, and resulted in consistently high grades that Crowder awarded without reading the papers or otherwise evaluating their true quality.”

Two counselors even suggested to Crowder what grades to give to the athletes. One of them, Jan Boxill, later became the faculty leader for UNC in 2011, just as the academic fraud became public."

Jan Boxill was president of the faculty senate and was suggesting specific grades for specific players.

In a lovely twist of irony, Boxill teaches Ethics.

She didn't just teach ethics...she was the DIRECTOR of the School of Ethics.

Maybe Coach Haase can hire Roy Williams as an assistant coach for a year or two while the smoke clears from the "death penalty" bomb.

Wishful thinking (about the death penalty, not Roy Williams).

I wonder how long Appalachian State will be on probation.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/one-flag-...picks=true

The good news for UNC is no coaches were involved...

I'm sure this is going on at many places, they just got caught.

Let's see now -- no coaches involved, no faculty members involved, no ethics involved -- it leaves one wondering who is running the UNC ship? That is one heck of a "shadow curriculum" and it ran for almost two decades. Does anyone really think that something like this only existed at this one school (with the way people move from school to school over years) and "if they do it, why can't we"?)

I don't think the NCAA wants anything to do with any "Death penalty" (having possible regrets over the SMU experience) so I doubt that is on the table. Since no coaches were named to be involved, the NCAA has no individual to punish by any "show cause" edict. Where can they go from here?

The state courts could act under fraud laws, but that has not been done anywhere to date.

No truth to the rumor that UNC has been invited to join the SEC.

I refuse to believe that no coaches were involved. From the Wainstein report's interview with Matt Doherty:

"Doherty explained that upon assuming the coaching position, he inherited the academic support system developed by prior Coaches Dean Smith and Bill Guthridge. That system had academic oversight being handled by McSwain, the counselor with close ties to Debby Crowder. While he felt free to make significant changes to the rest of the team’s coaching and support staff, Doherty was told by Smith and Guthridge, who both had a continued presence on campus, that he should not change the academic support system. As a result, the McSwain-Crowder pipeline continued to operate, and there were 42 enrollments of men’s basketball players in paper classes during Doherty’s tenure."

Why would they make sure that he kept the academic support system in place when he was given free reign to change everything else (and did)?

I don't believe a single sane person believes coaches didn't know about this at the very least.

(10-24-2014 02:06 PM)blazers9911 Wrote:  I don't believe a single sane person believes coaches didn't know about this at the very least.

I guess what I'm saying is that knowing about it and doing nothing, to me, necessitates "involvement."

The real question is whether or not the NCAA will view it that way.

As it stands right now, in my opinion, not only did the coaches know about it, but it was a program that was passed down through many coaching changes, meaning that it was much deeper than a guy trying to get a bigger contract and devising a scheme to help him win enough in order to accomplish that. This is definitely an institutional problem, and as such, it should carry penalties more severe than we've seen for agent tampering and the like.

Also, an advisor at UNC-Wilmington has been terminated today for her role in the whole thing.

Oh I'm agreeing with you. I was definitely being sarcastic when I wrote that line about the coaches having nothing to do with it earlier. I said it a year ago, I don't believe that Haase wasn't aware of what was going on either. I am willing to bet that this goes on at many, many colleges though. That does not make it right by any means though.

And I agree, there should be severe penalties for this. Not only are you cheating, but you are making a mockery of an institution that many people paid a lot of money to attend.

(10-24-2014 02:25 PM)blazers9911 Wrote:  Oh I'm agreeing with you. I was definitely being sarcastic when I wrote that line about the coaches having nothing to do with it earlier. I said it a year ago, I don't believe that Haase wasn't aware of what was going on either. I am willing to bet that this goes on at many, many colleges though. That does not make it right by any means though.

And I agree, there should be severe penalties for this. Not only are you cheating, but you are making a mockery of an institution that many people paid a lot of money to attend.

Let's just hope that the reason Haase finally left Roy Williams was to get away from practices like this and not to set out on his own path to success after fully learning the "Carolina Way."

I told someone last night, as we were discussing with a Carolina apologist, that I would personally be absolutely embarassed if my school were involved in this...I wouldn't be blindly defending them. Of course, I guess that's easy for me to say.

Eighteen years they kept athletes with a 4th/5th/6th grade reading level in school and the coaches didn't know? Are playbooks and handout sheets written in adult english? BS.

Wetzel, as usual, nails it. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-the-unc...34290.html

"For 18 years and over 1,000 student-athletes, including huge swaths of football and basketball players, UNC ran classes that were designed to require little to no academic work. It included academic advisers essentially telling the instructor the grade necessary to maintain eligibility. This was true even in cases when everyone suspected/knew the student in question submitted false or recycled papers for the minimal work required.

So they knew kids were cheating … in a fake class, no less … and they just calculated the needed grade to keep playing and then gave it to them."

(10-24-2014 02:25 PM)blazers9911 Wrote:  Oh I'm agreeing with you. I was definitely being sarcastic when I wrote that line about the coaches having nothing to do with it earlier. I said it a year ago, I don't believe that Haase wasn't aware of what was going on either. I am willing to bet that this goes on at many, many colleges though. That does not make it right by any means though.

And I agree, there should be severe penalties for this. Not only are you cheating, but you are making a mockery of an institution that many people paid a lot of money to attend.

I think we all KNOW the Head coaches (at least) were probably involved, but for the NCAA to PROVE it requires someone voluntarily stepping forward to make a statement that could terminate their coaching / teaching career. The NCAA has neither subpoena power nor a power to take testimony under oath. They depend entirely on voluntary testimony freely given for all investigations. They can't punish any past players, and any sanctions will only effectively be imposed on those in school today and the coming years of probation.

No such limits apply to the ability of the state of North Carolina and its law enforcement authorities to pursue this matter as a criminal offense.

What was done at such an influential school for almost two decades indicates that it was not an exception but more than likely a common practice at many schools around the nation and in many departments in each school. Money talks and many instructors may have been willing to supplement their relatively meager annual incomes (compared to the coaches) by complying with what athletic boosters were willing to financially support for the good of their school's teams - and all schools have their "boosters".

I doubt the HC were involved. I bet that they made damned sure that they were not.

The question is "Did they know about it?", and I just cannot believe that the both the athletic and academic administration of UNC knew nothing for eighteen years of someone's secretary assigning grades in a no show class. Literally thousands of students got A's for not going to class and turning in papers of dubious merit.

It doesn't matter if Williams knew or not under the new NCAA rule that makes head coaches responsible for the actions of any employees who report to them.

All coaches involved knew including some who have moved on to other programs.