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John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #1
John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
http://news.yahoo.com/john-kasichs-unfor...itics.html

The money quote.

Kasich told the Associated Press that a repeal of the hated law is “not gonna happen.” And then he said this: “The opposition to it was really either political or ideological. I don't think that holds water against real flesh and blood, and real improvements in people’s lives.”

real improvements in people’s lives.

real improvements in people’s lives.

real improvements in people’s lives.


That part is going to be repeated over and over and over. Get used to hearing that quote.
10-21-2014 08:15 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
Of course, it's made real improvements in some lives, and made others worse. It's a zero sum game, that's the only possible result.

It quits being a zero-sum game when the provisions affecting health CARE as opposed to health INSURANCE kick in. Those will result in lower quality and reduced access. That's a negative-sum game.
10-21-2014 10:55 AM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
It made real improvements in the lives of those likely to vote Democrat. It had no other purpose.
10-21-2014 11:16 AM
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TheDancinMonarch Offline
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RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
(10-21-2014 10:55 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Of course, it's made real improvements in some lives, and made others worse. It's a zero sum game, that's the only possible result.

It quits being a zero-sum game when the provisions affecting health CARE as opposed to health INSURANCE kick in. Those will result in lower quality and reduced access. That's a negative-sum game.

This!
10-21-2014 12:16 PM
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DaSaintFan Offline
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Post: #5
RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
Well, with that quote, I think Kasich took himself out of consideration for the GOP ticket in 2016..
10-21-2014 12:24 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
It's that strange moment where he is so far ahead in the lead that he spoke the truth. I can't stand the guy but he does pander to a certain segment of the D party.
10-21-2014 12:26 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #7
RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
He may be ahead of the curve. Appeal to the Huckabee types and peel off enough conservative blacks. Be the WWJD social conservative. Blame teachers for the plight of inner city schools. Kasich is exactly the type of Republican that could beat Hillary. It scares me.
10-21-2014 12:29 PM
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QuestionSocratic Offline
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Post: #8
RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
(10-21-2014 12:26 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's that strange moment where he is so far ahead in the lead that he spoke the truth. I can't stand the guy but he does pander to a certain segment of the D party.

The guy is actually a genius.

Next week he announces that all public employees in Ohio will be switched to the exchanges. (Hey, if he broke the promises on retirement, he sure as heck can break the promises of medical coverage.)
10-21-2014 01:23 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
I wouldn't put it past him. Balance the budgets!!!! Cut some more taxes!!!!!
10-21-2014 01:29 PM
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BobL Offline
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Post: #10
RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
(10-21-2014 10:55 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Of course, it's made real improvements in some lives, and made others worse. It's a zero sum game, that's the only possible result.

It quits being a zero-sum game when the provisions affecting health CARE as opposed to health INSURANCE kick in. Those will result in lower quality and reduced access. That's a negative-sum game.

elaborate please....specifics and citations appreciated.
10-21-2014 02:05 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #11
RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
(10-21-2014 01:23 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  [Kasich] is actually a genius.
LOL, first time I've ever heard anybody say that.

Quote:Next week he announces that all public employees in Ohio will be switched to the exchanges.
Poetic justice if it happens. But it never will.
10-21-2014 02:35 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
Course if you read the entirety of the article he and his aides were quickly dialing that back. Claiming it was his deciding to go along with the expansion n of the Medicaid stuff.
10-21-2014 03:11 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
(10-21-2014 02:05 PM)BobL Wrote:  elaborate please....specifics and citations appreciated.

There has been thread after thread of specifications and citations.

Obamacare does nothing to increase the number of practicing physicians.

It does nothing to increase reimbursement to encourage primary care, in fact, it cut it before adding a small portion back.

It adds 30mm people to the rolls of primary care physicians, while reminding us that we are already short about 10,000 physicians to handle the existing load... as evidenced by the long wait for an office visit for almost any doctor.

meaning that while a poor person can now go to a different doctor because they have insurance, there are no additional doctors to provide the additional care... meaning that their care comes at the cost of someone else missing their appointment. Hence the zero-sum game.

O-care provides health insurance, not health care.

That is the nickel explanation.

It also encourages those facilities like Kaiser and Kelsey and other physicians practices that only take insurance and don't have to provide emergency care to 'steal' the patients of the hospital sponsored clinics, meaning they steal some of the economies of scale that made hospital care possible... so hospitals now face the requirement to provide care to all who present, without the ability to spread their costs across a broader population. This will lead to hospital consolidations that by definition costs lives.... hence the actual net loss.

This involves far more understanding than most people have (my job exists specifically because of this problem) but it is nonetheless, true.
(This post was last modified: 10-21-2014 03:15 PM by Hambone10.)
10-21-2014 03:13 PM
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BobL Offline
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Post: #14
RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
(10-21-2014 03:13 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(10-21-2014 02:05 PM)BobL Wrote:  elaborate please....specifics and citations appreciated.

There has been thread after thread of specifications and citations.

Obamacare does nothing to increase the number of practicing physicians.

It does nothing to increase reimbursement to encourage primary care, in fact, it cut it before adding a small portion back.

It adds 30mm people to the rolls of primary care physicians, while reminding us that we are already short about 10,000 physicians to handle the existing load... as evidenced by the long wait for an office visit for almost any doctor.

meaning that while a poor person can now go to a different doctor because they have insurance, there are no additional doctors to provide the additional care... meaning that their care comes at the cost of someone else missing their appointment. Hence the zero-sum game.

O-care provides health insurance, not health care.

That is the nickel explanation.

It also encourages those facilities like Kaiser and Kelsey and other physicians practices that only take insurance and don't have to provide emergency care to 'steal' the patients of the hospital sponsored clinics, meaning they steal some of the economies of scale that made hospital care possible... so hospitals now face the requirement to provide care to all who present, without the ability to spread their costs across a broader population. This will lead to hospital consolidations that by definition costs lives.... hence the actual net loss.

This involves far more understanding than most people have (my job exists specifically because of this problem) but it is nonetheless, true.

Yes we have been through this and we disagree on most points...but what was stated was:
It quits being a zero-sum game when the provisions affecting health CARE as opposed to health INSURANCE kick in

He did not say what the bill lacked, as in increasing funding for residencies. My inference of that statement is that there are provisions within obamacare yet to be phased in(like the penalties) that will "decrease" care.
10-21-2014 03:39 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
Kasich said AP got it wrong, and he called POLITICO Monday night to correct the record. He said he was talking specifically about repeal of the expansion of Medicaid — which Ohio has implemented — and not of the Affordable Care Act more broadly.

(POLITICO's 2014 race ratings)

“From Day One, and up until today and into tomorrow, I do not support Obamacare,” the Republican governor said on Monday evening. “I never have, and I believe it should be repealed.”

Except for the Medicaid expansion part — which wouldn’t exist without the law. Kasich thinks there ought to be a way to save it.

“I have favored expanding Medicaid, but I don’t really see expanding Medicaid as really connected to Obamacare,” he said.

If Republicans take the Senate, Kasich said, “you better believe they’re gonna repeal

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/10/jo...z3GoZmrr2o
10-21-2014 03:50 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
(10-21-2014 03:39 PM)BobL Wrote:  Yes we have been through this and we disagree on most points...but what was stated was:
It quits being a zero-sum game when the provisions affecting health CARE as opposed to health INSURANCE kick in

He did not say what the bill lacked, as in increasing funding for residencies. My inference of that statement is that there are provisions within obamacare yet to be phased in(like the penalties) that will "decrease" care.

Well, you can't disagree with my facts... and most of what I present is 100% fact based.

You admit that Obamacare doesn't fund more residencies, so it doesn't increase the number of physicians... so unless there is already excess 'supply' and we know there isn't, how can we possibly deliver the same healthcare to more people? If your answer is that we push more of this care to NPs and PAs, then it's by definition, not the same quality of care.... and you're eliminating the extra time they currently have to care for you by adding significantly to their patient rolls. This is not an opinion, but a fact that you mostly admit. As I am in this business, I have mountains of facts that you would or have disputed... despite having no specific knowledge about it... but that doesn't make them any less factual.

As to what you inferred by his statement, the above is a perfect example of provisions of Obamacare that 'decrease' care. There are many more, but I'd prefer to stick with one pretty obvious fact rather than 50 as 'unbelievers' will merely waste my time and insist on being 'convinced' of those 50 facts... when they have shown no willingness to admit the sky is blue.

Obamacare definitely expands health insurance coverage to more people. That is undeniable. Of course, essentially the same thing could have been accomplished by expanding medicare availability and increasing medicaid funding, but I digress. Seriously, what is the difference between the typical person who presents to the ER twice a year for the sniffles and walks out with $1000 in unpaid medical bills and the person who presents to the ER twice a year for the sniffles (because the PCP can't see them for 3 weeks) and walks out with $1,000 in unpaid medical bills because despite having insurance, they have a $5,000 deductible? Actually the number will now be more like $1500 because in the past, the hospital would apply for reimbursement through the state... but again, I digress with more facts.

Will you accept that the lack of additional funding for more physicians coupled with an increase in the demand for their services leads to a net reduction in the availability and or quality of care available? If so, I'll consider adding fact 2 to the discussion. If not, then there really is no point.
(This post was last modified: 10-21-2014 04:29 PM by Hambone10.)
10-21-2014 04:24 PM
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firmbizzle Offline
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RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
Off with his head.
10-21-2014 04:55 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
(10-21-2014 04:24 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Will you accept that the lack of additional funding for more physicians coupled with an increase in the demand for their services leads to a net reduction in the availability and or quality of care available? If so, I'll consider adding fact 2 to the discussion. If not, then there really is no point.

Yes, let's see what kind of response this gets before going further.
10-21-2014 05:47 PM
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RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
The goal of Obamacare always was to level the quality of health care. Dems don't care how bad the health care is, as long as we all have the same care.

We'll eventually be Cuba 2.0.
10-21-2014 06:13 PM
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UM2001GRAD Offline
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RE: John Kasich's Unforgivable Truth
Anybody else tickled from watching alleged freemarketeers complain that a government program has expanded demand without expanding supply? Hilarious.
10-21-2014 06:17 PM
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