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http://hamptonroads.com/2014/10/light-ra...narrowed-6

Looking at the six alternatives for light rail to the Norfolk Navy Base, the only viable option is the western alternative that passes by ODU.

The central alternatives do not go anywhere in between so the the only other viable option would be the eastern alternatives near the airport. The airport only has 4,400 daily passengers. This path also does not go close enough to the proposed Norfolk outlets so it would not be utilized effectively.

The ODU route has the most potential with a student body of about 25,000. Coupled with the new ODU football stadium (capacity 30,000-40,000) and the events at the Ted (capacity 9,000). The ODU route would easily be the most utilized route.

I don't think Norfolk would allow any other route unless it goes to the football stadium since the VB route is planned to go the arena at the Oceanfront.


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A route from the beach to the new stadium would be awesome. Would get even more fans to the game and put a huge dent in the parking problem.

As the article title suggests. This is the proposed route TO NSS. I have to agree with one of the comments. (weird to say) This proposal seems to be driven by getting people to and from NNS. Is going through Ghent/Downtown the best route for that? Nope. Is it the best route for the area to support traffic concerns around sporting events at the stadium in the Ted? Yes. It's 2 different discussions in the eyes of the city it appears.

I'd like to see a NNS employee living density map, if such a thing exists. Where do most people who work at NNS live?

(10-20-2014 07:05 AM)Cr8n Wrote:  As the article title suggests. This is the proposed route TO NSS. I have to agree with one of the comments. (weird to say) This proposal seems to be driven by getting people to and from NNS. Is going through Ghent/Downtown the best route for that? Nope. Is it the best route for the area to support traffic concerns around sporting events at the stadium in the Ted? Yes. It's 2 different discussions in the eyes of the city it appears.

I'd like to see a NNS employee living density map, if such a thing exists. Where do most people who work at NNS live?

IMO there it is absolutely right to accomplish both. The difference in time added for those travelling to NNS by going through downtown and Ghent would be negligible vs. the other routes and the amount of usage which would be generated by taking that route would be far greater. When designing these routes I believe one of the most important considerations is generating the highest possible ridership.

I'd like to see it be extended via ODU/Ghent and eventually over to NNSY, which is the only way it will ever really affect traffic congestion. Even so, I am not sure it has the capacity to really work. Maybe LRT to the base and a high capacity bullet train that can really move a lot of people to/from NNSY.

I agree. It should be ridership and making best use of it to begin with. Maybe the title of the article should have been different. If it were titled "Light Rail Routes Narrowed to 6" the NNS wouldn't be the main focus of discussion and main destination.

Are they really going to invest hundreds of millions or more dollars and at the same time admit they will likely have to abandon parts of the city in coming decades because of water level rise?

(10-20-2014 07:40 AM)ODUR8R Wrote:  Are they really going to invest hundreds of millions or more dollars and at the same time admit they will likely have to abandon parts of the city in coming decades because of water level rise?

They realize that is science fiction. What I don't understand is why they continue to peddle it. They obviously aren't going to abandon the city. They'd all be out out of jobs rapidly if they ever tried something like that. Even if it the water level is rising (or the land is sinking) and then continues to do so, it would be a slow enough process to react and make changes to infrastructure.

They could always build levee's. Wait...

(10-20-2014 07:47 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(10-20-2014 07:40 AM)ODUR8R Wrote:  Are they really going to invest hundreds of millions or more dollars and at the same time admit they will likely have to abandon parts of the city in coming decades because of water level rise?

They realize that is science fiction. What I don't understand is why they continue to peddle it. They obviously aren't going to abandon the city. They'd all be out out of jobs rapidly if they ever tried something like that. Even if it the water level is rising (or the land is sinking) and then continues to do so, it would be a slow enough process to react and make changes to infrastructure.

At the risk of continuing down this O/T political path I will respond by saying; that realization is why they are now completing a project to elevate Brambleton Ave.

If New Orleans can exist below sea level, you can bet they'll do something in Norfolk. The thing about property owners is they don't like to lose their property for nothing. They'll petition politicians to spend billions of dollars to save their property at the expense of everyone else if it is necessary.

We already do this in NC with all the restoration work on the Outer Banks to slow/reverse beach erosion. Nobody really benefits except the people whose houses are affected, but we spend millions on it every year anyway because people spent big money on their property and they don't want to see those property lines erased into the ocean.

(10-20-2014 09:15 AM)paintedblue Wrote:  

(10-20-2014 07:47 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(10-20-2014 07:40 AM)ODUR8R Wrote:  Are they really going to invest hundreds of millions or more dollars and at the same time admit they will likely have to abandon parts of the city in coming decades because of water level rise?

They realize that is science fiction. What I don't understand is why they continue to peddle it. They obviously aren't going to abandon the city. They'd all be out out of jobs rapidly if they ever tried something like that. Even if it the water level is rising (or the land is sinking) and then continues to do so, it would be a slow enough process to react and make changes to infrastructure.

At the risk of continuing down this O/T political path I will respond by saying; that realization is why they are now completing a project to elevate Brambleton Ave.

Brambleton Ave isn't even the part of town that i they claim is affected by rising seas. Flash flooding, however, is a major problem there and always has been. Follow the money.

EverRespect. The Naval Base is spending millions and millions to raise piers at The Norfolk Naval Base. Think about that for a minute. Its not because the puddles are too high in the parking lot. Brambleton area floods when water is flooding back out of storm drains because the water can't flow out into rivers because its just too high during bigger storms. The same exact thing is happening in Larchmont, one of the nicest areas in the city. And its changing fast.

http://www.rockefellerfoundation.org/new...-announces

http://www.100resilientcities.org/cities...-challenge

(10-20-2014 09:53 AM)mac Wrote:  EverRespect. The Naval Base is spending millions and millions to raise piers at The Norfolk Naval Base. Think about that for a minute. Its not because the puddles are too high in the parking lot. Brambleton area floods when water is flooding back out of storm drains because the water can't flow out into rivers because its just too high during bigger storms. The same exact thing is happening in Larchmont, one of the nicest areas in the city. And its changing fast.

http://www.rockefellerfoundation.org/new...-announces

http://www.100resilientcities.org/cities...-challenge

Correct, The Naval Base through Willoughby are the areas affected by the rising seas/sinking land. The Larchmont and Brambleton areas (and Ghent) are affected by flash flooding due to poor engineering and too much concrete and pavement and the water has nowhere to go . Again, this is nothing new. It is in the city's best interest though to grab the money from the feds if they can.

While the issues of sea level rise and land subsidence could be partially addressed as a part of the extension of light rail, it will take a great deal of political will and smart engineering to accomplish this (e.g. flood protection measures can be incorporated as a part of a light rail extension down Hampton Blvd.). Unfortunately, I don't believe that the political will currently exists for such a 'combined' project. I certainly hope that ODU leadership can find a way to 'marry up' either removal of the existing monorail eyesore on campus (a laughingstock in the engineering community) or a way to make it a working and integral part of a light rail project running the length of Hampton Blvd.