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( As Littrell says, they tell the linemen “to block the run scheme that’s called and we’ll get the ball off quick enough to where linemen aren’t downfield.”)

This only means anything to you and I jubba. Lol.

lol, I literally told my lineman that today.

(10-20-2014 08:43 PM)jubbasubba Wrote:  Using the D-End to stop the jet motion is so flawed in my mind. I don't understand how you can be a D1 coach and go into the game with that as your game plan.

I agree. We run it out of trips alot so usual there is a corner outside but many time off the ball a ways and braverman is fast.

Correct Ernie. I would be a happy man if we went fully in this direction. Watch Bo Wallace at Ole miss, u get a ton of big plays and a few oh **** plays but I like putting the decision in the players hands. It is just my philosophy on coaching

I think that I can agree with Kimbo on some of this with regard to what DEFINES a true "option" play... if its called pre-snap than I don't think its an option outside of the option to pick that play at the line of scrimmage. I have always thought that a true option play is deciding as the QB looking over the defense what option you are leaning towards, than giving yourself another OPTION after snap to create an advantage...

What Terrell did in teh BGSU game in the second half on what "looked" like an option... may have been completely decided pre-snap. Hence... not a true option as Kimbo has been arguing. Howver I aluded to the idea that given time... Terrell could really start to take over this offense at the line of scrimmage and do some serious damage...

(10-20-2014 07:35 PM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  Option football is intentionally not blocking one or more people on a play to gain a blocking advantage given up when a qb just hands the ball off 11 on 10. When the qb makes two or three decisions and those players are not blocked to make the advantage 11 on 11 or 10 on 11. That is what option football means. Your talking about choices but those choices don't gain you a numerical advantage. Wr run choice routes all the time but gain no numerical advantage.

I think you're attempting to play semantics more than me here. You're just taking it a step further and talking about scheming and how to execute option football.

Watch Eric Boyden (tight end at the bottom of the formation) in the Franklin TD run against BGSU. Terrell hands the ball off to Franklin, and Boyden intentionally gives up his block on the edge to get downfield and take out the linebacker... which in turn creates the space for Franklin to practically walk into the endzone. It's new age "option" football:

http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=4005...d=11722563

"choices"... "options"... same difference.

(10-20-2014 08:49 PM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  

(10-20-2014 08:43 PM)jubbasubba Wrote:  Using the D-End to stop the jet motion is so flawed in my mind. I don't understand how you can be a D1 coach and go into the game with that as your game plan.

I agree. We run it out of trips alot so usual there is a corner outside but many time off the ball a ways and braverman is fast.

Correct Ernie. I would be a happy man if we went fully in this direction. Watch Bo Wallace at Ole miss, u get a ton of big plays and a few oh **** plays but I like putting the decision in the players hands. It is just my philosophy on coaching

You and Jubba are teaching (you were teaching) exactly what my favorite teacher and coach in high school taught us. We always won year to year, even without talent. When we had talent, like my senior year, we crushed teams and were ranked in what was then Class A.

To this day, our QB at the time and I will watch Georgia Tech and call the read their QB makes.

He obviously crushes me unless I just get lucky and guess right.

I was told to block and not think. QB was coaches son, which helped his football IQ, I learned a lot from them.

He was a helluva safety too, safeties never lie.

ive been following the caledonia H.S team this year... and they run some weird triple option that looks like its being blocked the same EVERY play... but who knows who has the ball ... or if they are going to be throwing it... Not a wing-T... but a crazy triple option hybrid... Of course they ALWAYS give it to their #1 back... which kind of defeats the purpose.. but with regard to blocking... I thought a true option was always blocked the same (with regard to direction), with deception in the backfield... Of course I am just a casual observer so forgive me for my lack of actual knowledge...

btw... how the F$&K did caledonia lose to Forest Hills Central this year...

(10-20-2014 08:40 PM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  zach is not making that decision on his own. Those combos are decisions pre snap by the qb most of the time without anyone else knowing. Or late check call by coaches but the Oline will rarely know of the change. Watching that play at ball state we didn't block it the way we would normally. Close but not there yet. I would be excited if we went in that direction.

I can agree with this.

Not an argument. I am right. Jubba and I are splitting hairs right now. He is right too. There is old school options and new school reads. I do both as much as possible. We are pre snap reading MOST of the time with a few options possibly sprinkled in. I would love to see us go full ole miss.

(10-20-2014 08:55 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(10-20-2014 07:35 PM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  Option football is intentionally not blocking one or more people on a play to gain a blocking advantage given up when a qb just hands the ball off 11 on 10. When the qb makes two or three decisions and those players are not blocked to make the advantage 11 on 11 or 10 on 11. That is what option football means. Your talking about choices but those choices don't gain you a numerical advantage. Wr run choice routes all the time but gain no numerical advantage.

I think you're attempting to play semantics more than me here. You're just taking it a step further and talking about scheming and how to execute option football.

Watch Eric Boyden (tight end at the bottom of the formation) in the Franklin TD run against BGSU. Terrell hands the ball off to Franklin, and Boyden intentionally gives up his block on the edge to get downfield and take out the linebacker... which in turn creates the space for Franklin to practically walk into the endzone. It's new age "option" football:

http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=4005...d=11722563

"choices"... "options"... same difference.

Awful example. Boyden bounced up to the net level because the tackle blocked out on the end and the play was designed to be run up the A gap. No read on that play or option. Your deep enough n my world right now. This is what I have spent the last 20 years doing.

(10-20-2014 08:57 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  ive been following the caledonia H.S team this year... and they run some weird triple option that looks like its being blocked the same EVERY play... but who knows who has the ball ... or if they are going to be throwing it... Not a wing-T... but a crazy triple option hybrid... Of course they ALWAYS give it to their #1 back... which kind of defeats the purpose.. but with regard to blocking... I thought a true option was always blocked the same (with regard to direction), with deception in the backfield... Of course I am just a casual observer so forgive me for my lack of actual knowledge...

btw... how the F$&K did caledonia lose to Forest Hills Central this year...

Good teams like Caledonia in the past ( been a few year since I have seen them) but have subtle changes in blocking scheme or run same backfield action but block a different play based on the adjustments the defense makes. Watch Georgia tech, paul Johnson doesn t even carry a play sheet. He knows what he wants to run when he gets certain reactions or how the front is lined up. The deception is only that not even the ability knows until after the snap who is getting the ball because it is all reactionary. People like me spend their whole lives talking and reading about this.
I like to run inside veer at a 1 but others like to run it at a 3. Some don't like midline vs a nose but I love it. Fb cut looks like an option to most people but it is a cut back play against a slanting defense.

(10-20-2014 09:15 PM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  

(10-20-2014 08:57 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  ive been following the caledonia H.S team this year... and they run some weird triple option that looks like its being blocked the same EVERY play... but who knows who has the ball ... or if they are going to be throwing it... Not a wing-T... but a crazy triple option hybrid... Of course they ALWAYS give it to their #1 back... which kind of defeats the purpose.. but with regard to blocking... I thought a true option was always blocked the same (with regard to direction), with deception in the backfield... Of course I am just a casual observer so forgive me for my lack of actual knowledge...

btw... how the F$&K did caledonia lose to Forest Hills Central this year...

Good teams like Caledonia in the past ( been a few year since I have seen them) but have subtle changes in blocking scheme or run same backfield action but block a different play based on the adjustments the defense makes. Watch Georgia tech, paul Johnson doesn t even carry a play sheet. He knows what he wants to run when he gets certain reactions or how the front is lined up. The deception is only that not even the ability knows until after the snap who is getting the ball because it is all reactionary. People like me spend their whole lives talking and reading about this.
I like to run inside veer at a 1 but others like to run it at a 3. Some don't like midline vs a nose but I love it. Fb cut looks like an option to most people but it is a cut back play against a slanting defense.

See... you lost me a bit there. Caledonia hired back their coach that took them to the first state title back in the early 2000's... and he's doing the same thing this year. Its apparently working... I think its easier to see these schemes when watching HS teams, because its so obvious...

As a casual fan I think its easy to make assumptions when watching games on espn... but when you don't really know what ACTUALLY broke down, you start to throw blame at the wrong person... Terrell takes a beating on this board at times, and I think that he's doing a heck of a job at this point... getting this offense up and down the field. ( I have even been guilty of giving him a rough review now and again.. ).

kimbo, I never understood why some guys only run midline to the 3. That is a nasty play when you can go both ways with it.

(10-21-2014 05:32 AM)jubbasubba Wrote:  kimbo, I never understood why some guys only run midline to the 3. That is a nasty play when you can go both ways with it.

Hard to get up to the backer because the read is first guy head up on guard. So usually a double on the 1. Your tackle kicks out and York wing folds under. I like a double on the backer. Guard blocks for fullback and slot blocks for the qb. I let my qb check plays so it is also to simplify. Depends on the front I guess but you would have to vary the blocking scheme and run a variation play, block it like inside.

I ran a variation to the 1 called tech from Georgia tech. Motion backside slot then sticks his foot in the ground at the snap and then run midline to the motion side with him leading through the hole as an extra blocker. We would run inside veer blocking with midline action. That gave us the double team on the backer.

I respect the fact that you've coached the option for 20+ years. However, today's "option" is very different than it was 10, 20... even just 5 years ago. I know you know this, and it's like the student telling this to the teacher. I get that.

I think we are all right about it to a certain extent. Most modern day "option" offenses have changed from a pitch to a hand off -- mainly to simplify things, eliminate the possibility of turnovers, and making quicker reads to adjust to today's speed. That's just my opinion.

I think we're arguing over semantics like you said. Whether Terrell checks back to the sideline (in a lot of cases) to get the read, or he makes it on the field while the play develops, it's a new age form of the option IMO: one play designed for multiple "options".

So I guess I'll just leave that as my last comment so that we don't just keeping going around in circles.

(10-20-2014 08:34 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  http://grantland.com/the-triangle/packag...-football/

(^very similar IMO)

This is what I started doing in 2001. We were not as sophisticated as they are today but it came out of the Jerry Campbell"option on me" idea. My last few years I was doing more of what is in this article that ole miss is doing. Main difference was that my qb would check to one of the 3 or 4 plays that the action looked the same to everyone else. We would run a check system where from one call by me the qb could call at the line during the cadence or with hand signals to wide outs several plays. My 2005 team is going into the hall of fame Friday night at the football game was very good at this as was my 2009 team which both had all state qbs. If they saw blitz they checked to a tight end dump or a slant/fade read to the wide out. Or to one of 2 or 3 option plays based on the front. My 2009 qb whom I only had for one year and he rushed for 31 tds and threw for 20. Famously said to me "coach this is like playing a video game, I have all the control". Which to me was the best compliment I ever got on the football side of things. I wanted to teach my players football and then let them make decisions. Hell my oline made their own calls and could change the schemes based on what was happening in real time better than my coaches. It is hard to see for a coach if someone is lined up head up or shade d to one side.

HJ, I get it and I guess the terms you are using are just different than I am. I see a difference between "option" plays and "reads" or "checks". This is the part of football I love and study even though I may never coach again. So yes it is semantics but it is the small variations that might look like the same thing to the lay person are very different for me. Major is more of an old school expert at this than I am and I believe him and I are different when it comes to how much pressure we put on our qbs.

Jubba I watched you practice about 4 weeks ago during my son's jr high game. I was very impressed with the Pac and the defensive schemes I saw. U were preparing for a no huddle spread team. Former bronco Gary vanderwhel (sp) was coaching portage north and former rocket qb tim kubiak was coaching my son's linen grove team.

(10-20-2014 08:34 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  http://grantland.com/the-triangle/packag...-football/

(^very similar IMO)

I just noticed that you posted this HJ and not jubba. I believe jubba and shared that article with each other last year. Like I said before if we move to more of the ole miss Hugh freeze style over the next year I will be a very happy bronco. I will sing the praises of the OC if that is the case because like I said from day one. You have to do these types of things in the MAC to win. U just cant line up in the I and pound the ball even with as good as Franklin is. These schemes will make him even more of a threat.

Alright I will stop. I used to post every day on an option board similar to this. I can talk all year about it. I started as a defensive coach but very quickly went back to offense especially option football which I have loved since I was 5. I have a copy of the 1975 Alabama offensive playbook in my desk which was just after they switched to the wishbone. It is one of my passions. I don't do anything half way. I either know it all or try to or I don't do it at all. I can get a little obsessive. Fishing is taking the place of coaching right now and I am obsessive about that as well.

Rants over..... for now.

When was the last time a team ran the option in the MAC. Was it Ohio before solich? I can't think of another team doing it although I always loved watching it.

(10-21-2014 01:58 PM)Ubish Wrote:  When was the last time a team ran the option in the MAC. Was it Ohio before solich? I can't think of another team doing it although I always loved watching it.

Grobe at ohio. Faust at Akron. Meyer early zone read stuff at BG. Miami tried last year for a while. New Mexico or state is doing some cool stuff right now. We will sees it with Georgia southern next year.