(10-21-2014 07:01 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  To the guy with the big letters... ECU is not ranked in the top 200. You can try to say why all you want... they are not ranked in the top 200. They are not a tier 1 research institute...

USF has had funding cut year after year, just like UCF has also. I believe most universities have. ON top of funding cuts, USF has lost THREE branches. What is now Florida Gulf Coast University used to be USFs... New College used to be a part of USF Sarasota and the brand new Florida Polytechnic used to be USF Lakeland. Not only have we had funding cut, we lost thousands in student body, monies invested in other campuses and yet we still have succeeded.... So stop assuming that ECU is the only one that has had state funding issues.

The Big 12 WILL NOT CARE.

Notice: no one cares about you or your soap box. You and your assumptions have no bearing on some magical conferences invite from the Big 12. It ain't happening Nancy. Worry about what is now...your football and upcoming basketball season. Just worry about winning first.

(10-21-2014 05:29 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 10:49 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 09:37 AM)isidnirb Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 09:04 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Awesome post. I love how you took the time to defeat the totality of the argument. So tell me again why ECU was selected over USF for the Big East? Oh ya, it wasn't. We were chosen because.... Larger market, Larger enrollment, More living alumni, larger endowment (yes, presidents look at this as a measurement of academic strength and alumni engagement...its also why USF has raised over $800 million in their new fundraising campaign).

I am more than happy to debate the facts with any fan of any conference, but your emotional responses to a researched position will only get you mocked. Do some reading on expansion...stay away from "the dude of WV" and Tuxedo yoda and find some reputable sources and see what they think about what factors play in expansion. Youll see that what I am posting is accurate.

With that said, as much as it hurts me, I ll openly admit that right now UCF is ahead of USF. I think cinci and even Memphis have a better shot and Tulane is one to keep an eye on. The only way USF gets into the B12 is if they decide to add four and find a financial advantage to adding two florida schools. We need some big wins to turn that around.

and btw... we don't suck at every sport. Were ranked in the top 25 soccer programs right now. Were also very good at volleyball, top rated golf, cross country, tennis and we went to the NCAA tourney two years ago in baskeball. (when did ECU go to the tourney?) Even in football we were a solid team just a few years ago. Unfortuantely, ECUs revenenge (Skippy) destroyed our program but Taggart is getting us back. We did sign the top rated AAC conference recruiting class last year and were well on our way of doing it again this year. Talent will move us up.

Honestly I really don't care. You are a commuter school with lots of alumni and students in a large city. Hang your hat on that, be proud. And tell me how well that works out for you with all those empty seats. At least you have a large endowment, right? That always wins games, puts fans in the seats and creates alumni who care.

At least you can claim Gallagher graduated and Hulk Hogan attended USF. That's cool.

Um...lots of alumni in a large city is a *good* thing. Few alumni in a small town is good...why?

I'm not sure I agree with the commuter school moniker for USF. Hmmm...Tampa...27 ACT score...a research powerhouse...recruiting hotbed... I'm not dismissing ECU, but those four things alone blow ECU out of the water. Admission standards to USF are actually quite high - much, much higher than they are to ECU.

USF is getting there. We jumped 10 spots from last year and were in the middle of a $1 billion campaign to raise funds for our goals.
http://www.unstoppable.usf.edu/fnd_web/a...paign.aspx

Were a bit over $800 million right now.

We are far from being a commuter school, but people who know nothing about us like to say it.

For Public institutions, In the AAC I believe that Tulane leads the conference, followed by UConn and Temple... those are the only ones I think that are top 100. (I didn't look up exact numbers, just going off what I remember) Then you get outside of the top 100 and I know (130ish)Cinci is next, then (162)USF, (172)UCF and (189)Houston.

Then Memphis and ECU are not ranked in the top 200. The next BIG aspect is research rankings. UConn, Cinci, USF, UCF and Houston are all Tier 1 research institutes... and that's not easy to get to. Temple might be but I don't know.

Many on this board try to dismiss the importance of academics but the simple fact is that Presidents of Universities make decisions, not ADs.

Cinci is well on their way of moving up to top 100 with the investments they are making. This is why I tend to believe that they lead the pack for inclusion in the B12.
UConn probably is the most deserving based on on field performance over the years and their academics are top notch. In fact they are moving very close to inclusion in the Elite AAU status, which all Big 10 universities had when they entered.


I tend to believe that USF and UCF will get a chance to move up... and nothing against anybody in this conference, but I hope that UConn gets into the ACC at some point and Cinci gets in Big 12. We've played against each other and I have a love for their programs. I root for all Big East teams first and then our new AAC brethren.... though Memphis is an old CUSA foe, so I root for their success too.

For the record, UC is much closer to AAU status than UConn is. We are rated higher than UConn in almost every academic ranking except USNWR. The next AAU school will be either UC or Boston University, although Colorado State and Hawai'i have outside shots.

USF, UAB, and UIC also do enough research to merit consideration but USF doesn't have the track record yet (important in a club that took until 2010 to admit Georgia Tech) and the other 2 are branch campuses.

what schools do the presidents favor?

(10-21-2014 08:41 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 01:09 PM)isidnirb Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 12:13 PM)SteveUCF19 Wrote:  I hope they do a poll for the schools that don't deserve to be in the P5. I'm looking at you, Iowa State.

Could someone remind us where Iowa is? Talk about no where....must be near Kansas.

lets not get out of hand. Iowa has 3.2 million people, a world renown university medical school in Iowa city (university of Iowa) four top notch universities in isu and Iowa, drake and Grinnell, not to mention AAU schools in Iowa and isu that do more research than UCF, Louisville, temple, Houston, Tulsa and Cincinnati combined.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. http://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/herd/2012/html/...ST_20.html

42. Iowa - $446.429 million
46. Cincinnati - $433.668 million
79. Iowa State - $260.995 million

I don't feel like transposing the other schools you mentioned, but all are well over $100 million except for Tulsa, which is a private school with just over 4,000 students.

(10-21-2014 09:02 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 05:29 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 10:49 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 09:37 AM)isidnirb Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 09:04 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Awesome post. I love how you took the time to defeat the totality of the argument. So tell me again why ECU was selected over USF for the Big East? Oh ya, it wasn't. We were chosen because.... Larger market, Larger enrollment, More living alumni, larger endowment (yes, presidents look at this as a measurement of academic strength and alumni engagement...its also why USF has raised over $800 million in their new fundraising campaign).

I am more than happy to debate the facts with any fan of any conference, but your emotional responses to a researched position will only get you mocked. Do some reading on expansion...stay away from "the dude of WV" and Tuxedo yoda and find some reputable sources and see what they think about what factors play in expansion. Youll see that what I am posting is accurate.

With that said, as much as it hurts me, I ll openly admit that right now UCF is ahead of USF. I think cinci and even Memphis have a better shot and Tulane is one to keep an eye on. The only way USF gets into the B12 is if they decide to add four and find a financial advantage to adding two florida schools. We need some big wins to turn that around.

and btw... we don't suck at every sport. Were ranked in the top 25 soccer programs right now. Were also very good at volleyball, top rated golf, cross country, tennis and we went to the NCAA tourney two years ago in baskeball. (when did ECU go to the tourney?) Even in football we were a solid team just a few years ago. Unfortuantely, ECUs revenenge (Skippy) destroyed our program but Taggart is getting us back. We did sign the top rated AAC conference recruiting class last year and were well on our way of doing it again this year. Talent will move us up.

Honestly I really don't care. You are a commuter school with lots of alumni and students in a large city. Hang your hat on that, be proud. And tell me how well that works out for you with all those empty seats. At least you have a large endowment, right? That always wins games, puts fans in the seats and creates alumni who care.

At least you can claim Gallagher graduated and Hulk Hogan attended USF. That's cool.

Um...lots of alumni in a large city is a *good* thing. Few alumni in a small town is good...why?

I'm not sure I agree with the commuter school moniker for USF. Hmmm...Tampa...27 ACT score...a research powerhouse...recruiting hotbed... I'm not dismissing ECU, but those four things alone blow ECU out of the water. Admission standards to USF are actually quite high - much, much higher than they are to ECU.

USF is getting there. We jumped 10 spots from last year and were in the middle of a $1 billion campaign to raise funds for our goals.
http://www.unstoppable.usf.edu/fnd_web/a...paign.aspx

Were a bit over $800 million right now.

We are far from being a commuter school, but people who know nothing about us like to say it.

For Public institutions, In the AAC I believe that Tulane leads the conference, followed by UConn and Temple... those are the only ones I think that are top 100. (I didn't look up exact numbers, just going off what I remember) Then you get outside of the top 100 and I know (130ish)Cinci is next, then (162)USF, (172)UCF and (189)Houston.

Then Memphis and ECU are not ranked in the top 200. The next BIG aspect is research rankings. UConn, Cinci, USF, UCF and Houston are all Tier 1 research institutes... and that's not easy to get to. Temple might be but I don't know.

Many on this board try to dismiss the importance of academics but the simple fact is that Presidents of Universities make decisions, not ADs.

Cinci is well on their way of moving up to top 100 with the investments they are making. This is why I tend to believe that they lead the pack for inclusion in the B12.
UConn probably is the most deserving based on on field performance over the years and their academics are top notch. In fact they are moving very close to inclusion in the Elite AAU status, which all Big 10 universities had when they entered.


I tend to believe that USF and UCF will get a chance to move up... and nothing against anybody in this conference, but I hope that UConn gets into the ACC at some point and Cinci gets in Big 12. We've played against each other and I have a love for their programs. I root for all Big East teams first and then our new AAC brethren.... though Memphis is an old CUSA foe, so I root for their success too.

For the record, UC is much closer to AAU status than UConn is. We are rated higher than UConn in almost every academic ranking except USNWR. The next AAU school will be either UC or Boston University, although Colorado State and Hawai'i have outside shots.

USF, UAB, and UIC also do enough research to merit consideration but USF doesn't have the track record yet (important in a club that took until 2010 to admit Georgia Tech) and the other 2 are branch campuses.

Well then I guess Cincinnati is next since Boston University accepted their invitation in 2012...

What does Tom Tillis have to do with cutting ECU's funding? Just curious since I just moved to Charlotte. I can't imagine it could be so bad that I'd vote for Kay Hagan.

(10-21-2014 10:50 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  What does Tom Tillis have to do with cutting ECU's funding? Just curious since I just moved to Charlotte. I can't imagine it could be so bad that I'd vote for Kay Hagan.

In 2011-2012 alone 49.5 million dollars cut by the General Assembly which is lead by Tillis.

(10-21-2014 07:01 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  To the guy with the big letters... ECU is not ranked in the top 200. You can try to say why all you want... they are not ranked in the top 200. They are not a tier 1 research institute...

USF has had funding cut year after year, just like UCF has also. I believe most universities have. ON top of funding cuts, USF has lost THREE branches. What is now Florida Gulf Coast University used to be USFs... New College used to be a part of USF Sarasota and the brand new Florida Polytechnic used to be USF Lakeland. Not only have we had funding cut, we lost thousands in student body, monies invested in other campuses and yet we still have succeeded.... So stop assuming that ECU is the only one that has had state funding issues.

The Big 12 WILL NOT CARE.

Did you even read my post, no chate we aren't this year, but we were the previous 5. We had 16% gutted in one year! to date 40% has been cut.

Someone may know better than I, so feel free to correct, but I believe the AAU has to drop a member before it can add a member. So who is getting the boot so that BC, UC, UConn or USF can get in?

As far academics and rankings, I'm sure they carry some weight but again, if you have a measure of intellect and remove the rose colored glasses, how seriously can you take them? ECU was tier 1 the previous five year and dropped 20 spots in 1 year? USF rose 10? What does it say about those rankings when they are so volatile over short periods of time? Is ECU honestly doing anything worse than it was 12 months ago? Look I know they matter and schools should be working to improve constantly but the differences from 200-170 is probably like splitting hairs.

(10-22-2014 06:18 AM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 10:50 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  What does Tom Tillis have to do with cutting ECU's funding? Just curious since I just moved to Charlotte. I can't imagine it could be so bad that I'd vote for Kay Hagan.

In 2011-2012 alone 49.5 million dollars cut by the General Assembly which is lead by Tillis.

How many votes are represented in the GA?

(10-21-2014 09:10 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 08:41 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 01:09 PM)isidnirb Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 12:13 PM)SteveUCF19 Wrote:  I hope they do a poll for the schools that don't deserve to be in the P5. I'm looking at you, Iowa State.

Could someone remind us where Iowa is? Talk about no where....must be near Kansas.

lets not get out of hand. Iowa has 3.2 million people, a world renown university medical school in Iowa city (university of Iowa) four top notch universities in isu and Iowa, drake and Grinnell, not to mention AAU schools in Iowa and isu that do more research than UCF, Louisville, temple, Houston, Tulsa and Cincinnati combined.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. http://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/herd/2012/html/...ST_20.html

42. Iowa - $446.429 million
46. Cincinnati - $433.668 million
79. Iowa State - $260.995 million

I don't feel like transposing the other schools you mentioned, but all are well over $100 million except for Tulsa, which is a private school with just over 4,000 students.

USF did $413 million last year and will jump significantly this year. Should be over $450. This is why we are consistently in the top 10 in Patents each year.

Fans can try to put down teams like Cinci and USF but the truth is, they simply haven't done enough research about us and their position is based in ignorance. Were not Harvard but we are research powerhouse schools.

A great example is fundraising. USF is raising a Billion dollars right now and were currently sitting at around $816 million of that goal. Companies and major research firms don't hand out that kind of cash to schools that don't have a rep for doing great work.

(10-22-2014 06:21 AM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 07:01 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  To the guy with the big letters... ECU is not ranked in the top 200. You can try to say why all you want... they are not ranked in the top 200. They are not a tier 1 research institute...

USF has had funding cut year after year, just like UCF has also. I believe most universities have. ON top of funding cuts, USF has lost THREE branches. What is now Florida Gulf Coast University used to be USFs... New College used to be a part of USF Sarasota and the brand new Florida Polytechnic used to be USF Lakeland. Not only have we had funding cut, we lost thousands in student body, monies invested in other campuses and yet we still have succeeded.... So stop assuming that ECU is the only one that has had state funding issues.

The Big 12 WILL NOT CARE.

Did you even read my post, no chate we aren't this year, but we were the previous 5. We had 16% gutted in one year! to date 40% has been cut.

yes I read it and It still doesn't matter. The Big 12 will not care why you aren't academically ranked, they will care that you ARENT.

and your bitching about $40 million... HA.

http://news.usf.edu/article/templates/?a=4159

We were cut $128 million... IN ONE YEAR and the following year we moved up 10 spots. That's why we went out and started our "Unstopabull" Campaign. If the state isn't going to get it done, WE DO.
http://www.unstoppable.usf.edu/fnd_web/a...paign.aspx

$819 million raised so far.

Listen, the only reason I am harsh on ECU is some of your fans are the most annoying I have ever seen. They truly believe that since you have had a few years of success (with the major one being 23 years ago) that you somehow are the best school in the AAC and will deserve an invite over everybody else.

Its an offensive attitude. Not only is football only one of the reasons but its not the most important. Rutgers and Maryland didn't get into the Big 10 because of their football...they both sucked. They had amazing academics and a huge market. Syracuse and Pitt got into the ACC for the same reasons.
Lville is the outlier but their academics are actually moving up very quickly and I wouldn't doubt that they are near the top 100 within 5-10 years.

ECU has had some great success but when you truly look at what expansion is about and all the factors that will go into it, yall are on the outside looking in.

(10-22-2014 07:20 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  Someone may know better than I, so feel free to correct, but I believe the AAU has to drop a member before it can add a member. So who is getting the boot so that BC, UC, UConn or USF can get in?

As far academics and rankings, I'm sure they carry some weight but again, if you have a measure of intellect and remove the rose colored glasses, how seriously can you take them? ECU was tier 1 the previous five year and dropped 20 spots in 1 year? USF rose 10? What does it say about those rankings when they are so volatile over short periods of time? Is ECU honestly doing anything worse than it was 12 months ago? Look I know they matter and schools should be working to improve constantly but the differences from 200-170 is probably like splitting hairs.

No AAU status is just a vote. 3/4 of the members have to vote you in. There is no limit... but they are VERY selective and it is tough.

As a previous poster pointed out, Cinci and UConn are both well on their way. I believe Tulane is our only member in this conference. Schools like USF, UCF and Houston are great research institutes but they are WAY far away from getting an invite.

I know USF has to get their class to teacher ratio down, they need more library sq footage, increase the number of doctorates awarded (were really close) and a couple other areas.
The thing is, we could hit all the milestones that other universities have hit and it still may not get us in. Its a private group and invites and reasons behind it change.
When a school gets in its about 2/3 hard work and 1/3 political.

(10-21-2014 08:56 PM)isidnirb Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 07:01 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  To the guy with the big letters... ECU is not ranked in the top 200. You can try to say why all you want... they are not ranked in the top 200. They are not a tier 1 research institute...

USF has had funding cut year after year, just like UCF has also. I believe most universities have. ON top of funding cuts, USF has lost THREE branches. What is now Florida Gulf Coast University used to be USFs... New College used to be a part of USF Sarasota and the brand new Florida Polytechnic used to be USF Lakeland. Not only have we had funding cut, we lost thousands in student body, monies invested in other campuses and yet we still have succeeded.... So stop assuming that ECU is the only one that has had state funding issues.

The Big 12 WILL NOT CARE.

Notice: no one cares about you or your soap box. You and your assumptions have no bearing on some magical conferences invite from the Big 12. It ain't happening Nancy. Worry about what is now...your football and upcoming basketball season. Just worry about winning first.

You worry about now... USF is too busy looking at the future. Its not a soapbox, I just have an issue with ignorant posters and their shoot from the hip and not researching a damn thing. There are those that come to a board to spread knowledge and become a part of a community...then there are others who come to shoot off their mouth and prove they don't know a damn thing.

Many ECU fans are great but there are a handful here that don't have a freaking clue as to what actually goes on behind the scenes during expansion. The three schools that got left behind learned their lesson and are planning for war.

You really think we just selected Harlan as our new AD because hes qualified?... or was it that he has directly worked for FOUR ADs in the Big 12.... and Kansas's AD is a former USF assistant AD.... and Dr. Genshaft (our president) stays in constant contact with Oliver Luck.

There is no room for just working now. Now will take care of itself. USF is looking into an OCS, raising funds like a madman, making contacts, upgrading coaches, investing in facilities... more then likely there will only be two that move up. Whats ECU doing?

(10-22-2014 08:45 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  There is no room for just working now. Now will take care of itself. USF is looking into an OCS, raising funds like a madman, making contacts, upgrading coaches, investing in facilities... more then likely there will only be two that move up. Whats ECU doing?

Not enough right now. We're doing good on the field but we need better leadership behind the scenes academically. TBH, I don't think our leadership takes some of the academic rankings publications seriously enough.

There's no excuse to completely drop out of Tier 1 after all the work we put into getting there. It still doesn't make total sense to me as in the past 5-10 years we've grown the medical school, got a dental program and have had our engineering programs ABET accredited. Something just doesn't add up to me.

(10-22-2014 08:52 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 08:45 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  There is no room for just working now. Now will take care of itself. USF is looking into an OCS, raising funds like a madman, making contacts, upgrading coaches, investing in facilities... more then likely there will only be two that move up. Whats ECU doing?

Not enough right now. We're doing good on the field but we need better leadership behind the scenes academically. TBH, I don't think our leadership takes some of the academic rankings publications seriously enough.

There's no excuse to completely drop out of Tier 1 after all the work we put into getting there. It still doesn't make total sense to me as in the past 5-10 years we've grown the medical school, got a dental program and have had our engineering programs ABET accredited. Something just doesn't add up to me.

I don't know anything about the politics in your state, but how many ECU grads are in your state legislature?

USF has just recently started getting a better share at the trough and that's because we just now started to get some of our grads elected and into the better power positions.

In our state, youll find that any school that has a law school gets more people elected and typically gets a lot more money...FSU, UF, Miami. Who doesn't have a law school... USF and UCF.
Weve both tried and the legislature has blocked us.

It kinda sounds like the "Big four" in your state is making ECU pay for making them look bad. Your wouldn't think crap like that happens but after consulting in politics for a decade, ive seen it happen.

(10-18-2014 10:37 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  Deserves to be in based on what? Because they are winning this year?

If you had taken the same poll last year, UCF may have been on top.

BYU and Boise would still be at the top in any year. ECU might be a product of this year's hype though.

(10-18-2014 11:48 AM)PirateHeist Wrote:  

(10-18-2014 11:42 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(10-18-2014 11:02 AM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  

(10-18-2014 10:37 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  Deserves to be in based on what? Because they are winning this year?

If you had taken the same poll last year, UCF may have been on top.

While this is basically an irrelevant exercise, it seems that the coaches are giving high credence to:

1) on field performance

2) football tradition

3) fan support

BYU & ECU have a long tradition of playing solid football, both programs are still currently playing solid football, and their fan support and attendance consistently supersede all programs outside the 'power' conferences.

I don't think that CFB coaches take basketball into consideration hardly at all so that is likely skewing the statistics a bit & why UCONN is behind Marshall, etc.

ECU and BYU > Boise in game day butts in seats but you can't beat BSU on record and tradition. Dominated last 20 years of CFB

Dominated mostly scrub WAC teams and a P5 team here or there they eeked out a win. You might as well start arguing for Marshall now since they are doing the same.

Two BCS bowl wins, also two national titles before moving up to the FBS. What has ECU done besides beating up on the two "P5 in name only" programs in your state?

In before you brag about eking out a win over us in one bowl game from years ago.

(10-21-2014 03:19 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 12:08 PM)SublimeKnight Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 12:06 PM)The Knight Time Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 11:46 AM)SublimeKnight Wrote:  

(10-18-2014 11:00 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  If you are talking about DESERVES how the hell is Boise St not overwhelmingly number 1?!?!?!?!?!?!

This. It's not clear what makes you "deserving" though (the crux of what makes the poll useless). On the field wins? Fan support? Or any of the criteria that is thrown around as expansion worthy.

Strictly on the field, I don't know how you could argue against Boise being #1.

Maybe, but at the end of the day Boise is in Idaho.

That's why.

You got me their field is in Idaho. I said "Strictly on the field", when I meant, "Strictly play on the field".

There elite success went to Washington. Now they are just like most other G5's struggling to sell tickets.

"Their elite success went to Colorado."
- Haters in 2006

"Their elite success went to Arizona State."
- Haters in 2001

(10-21-2014 04:27 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are a lot of ties, but the Dayton metro is shrinking in population. Cincinnati isn't growing that fast and a fair amount of that is in Kentucky.

The northern Cincinnati metro is growing, the southern Dayton metro is growing. That is the reason why they are going to become the same DMA in the future. I live in Dayton, the south and east parts of Dayton are still growing at a great rate. People are just abandoning the west and central areas.