Very good job by the Raleigh paper. Multiple stories covering the various aspects of the scandal. It begins to look like some are trying to throw football under the bus in order to save basketball.

http://www.newsobserver.com/

A quick overview with some of the key players is here:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/22/4...arism.html

The usual wrist slap is scholarship reductions and loss of postseason eligibility for one year, so it makes sense to let the football program take the punishment.

It looks like the baseball program is in trouble as well....

http://www.collegebaseballdaily.com/2014...ign=buffer

SMU better look out.

(10-23-2014 10:48 AM)texd Wrote:  SMU better look out.

It seems strange that a college baseball program would be cutting corners. Usually college baseball stays clean because the players who not interested in school have the option of going to the minors if they have the baseball talent.

(10-22-2014 09:15 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  It looks like the baseball program is in trouble as well....

http://www.collegebaseballdaily.com/2014...ign=buffer

Apparently Coach Fox and the baseball coaching staff knew of the "paper classes" and played along...

http://www.collegebaseballdaily.com/2014...ign=buffer

...so much for Mike Fox being held up by ESPN and the college baseball pundits (Kendall, Baseball America, Eric Sorenson) as the epitome of integrity and character amongst the college baseball coaching ranks.

(10-23-2014 05:36 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Apparently Coach Fox and the baseball coaching staff knew of the "paper classes" and played along...

http://www.collegebaseballdaily.com/2014...ign=buffer

...so much for Mike Fox being held up by ESPN and the college baseball pundits (Kendall, Baseball America, Eric Sorenson) as the epitome of integrity and character amongst the college baseball coaching ranks.

Agree. All of this "I didn't know the specifics I only heard about these courses" BS that Fox and Williams have trotted out is very lame. There is nothing a HC doesn't know about if he is a successful HC.

(10-22-2014 07:39 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Very good job by the Raleigh paper. Multiple stories covering the various aspects of the scandal. It begins to look like some are trying to throw football under the bus in order to save basketball.

http://www.newsobserver.com/

A quick overview with some of the key players is here:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/22/4...arism.html

Thanks, Tiki. Some of the coverage is very good. Real investigative journalism.

(10-23-2014 07:48 PM)3-OwlsInTheNest Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 07:39 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Very good job by the Raleigh paper. Multiple stories covering the various aspects of the scandal. It begins to look like some are trying to throw football under the bus in order to save basketball.

http://www.newsobserver.com/

A quick overview with some of the key players is here:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/22/4...arism.html

Thanks, Tiki. Some of the coverage is very good. Real investigative journalism.

Your welcome.

Ironically we were in Raleigh for the Supers two years ago and the story was hot then with the new investigation coming up and the resignation of the department head.

I find it mind boggling that there has been absolutely no discipline to anyone in the Athletic Department, or that the NCAA has yet to step in to conduct their own investigation.

One of the biggest things I think was what Butch Davis is claiming. He claims not to have known about the fake courses but it was his coaching staff that was in a panic about Crowder retiring and they went to the academic advising department to plead for reinstating the classes. That is where the powerpoint presentation came up.

(10-24-2014 08:58 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  One of the biggest things I think was what Butch Davis is claiming. He claims not to have known about the fake courses but it was his coaching staff that was in a panic about Crowder retiring and they went to the academic advising department to plead for reinstating the classes. That is where the powerpoint presentation came up.

How about Mike Fox and his coaching staff saying they knew nothing of the courses, but then the e-mail trail show that they were blatantly lying.

(10-24-2014 08:49 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  I find it mind boggling that there has been absolutely no discipline to anyone in the Athletic Department, or that the NCAA has yet to step in to conduct their own investigation.

Wait...you're surprised that the NCAA hasn't done anything to step in to investigate an athletic department that (in men's basketball and baseball) is one of the premier teams off of which they make their money?

I'm wholly expecting an East Carolina sanctions slam in the next month of so...Pirates are getting a bit too uppity. /s

Also I wonder if the P5 football programs independence from the NCAA will have any bearing on penalties.

(10-24-2014 08:49 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  I find it mind boggling that there has been absolutely no discipline to anyone in the Athletic Department, or that the NCAA has yet to step in to conduct their own investigation.

(10-24-2014 09:04 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 08:58 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  One of the biggest things I think was what Butch Davis is claiming. He claims not to have known about the fake courses but it was his coaching staff that was in a panic about Crowder retiring and they went to the academic advising department to plead for reinstating the classes. That is where the powerpoint presentation came up.

How about Mike Fox and his coaching staff saying they knew nothing of the courses, but then the e-mail trail show that they were blatantly lying.

UNC had an 18-year scheme of fake classes for 3,100+ students largely aimed at keeping student-athletes, especially those in revenue sports, eligible while receiving no instruction and turning in almost entirely plagiarized work. Advisers to student athletes knew about this and directed student athletes to the scheme. At least some coaches knew about the scheme. Some who say they didn't are lying because the investigation turned up evidence of their panicking when the scheme might end. Analysis shows these fake classes alone are what made hundreds and hundreds of athletes eligible. (A commentator on an article recalls that) 10 of the 15 players on the 2005 national championship team majored in the department offering the scheme. The end of the scheme caused the lowest football team GPA in a decade.

I'll eat my hat and yours if you can convince me this doesn't blow SMU's paid players scheme out of the water as a justification for a death penalty for those revenue programs and others deeply involved. Strip every win that involved a player who benefited from the scheme too. This is so much more damaging to the notion of a student athlete, involved more people and programs, and continued longer.

The NCAA will probably never use the death penalty again, but they really should.

(10-24-2014 09:54 PM)Philoso-Owl Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 08:49 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  I find it mind boggling that there has been absolutely no discipline to anyone in the Athletic Department, or that the NCAA has yet to step in to conduct their own investigation.

(10-24-2014 09:04 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 08:58 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  One of the biggest things I think was what Butch Davis is claiming. He claims not to have known about the fake courses but it was his coaching staff that was in a panic about Crowder retiring and they went to the academic advising department to plead for reinstating the classes. That is where the powerpoint presentation came up.

How about Mike Fox and his coaching staff saying they knew nothing of the courses, but then the e-mail trail show that they were blatantly lying.

UNC had an 18-year scheme of fake classes for 3,100+ students largely aimed at keeping student-athletes, especially those in revenue sports, eligible while receiving no instruction and turning in almost entirely plagiarized work. Advisers to student athletes knew about this and directed student athletes to the scheme. At least some coaches knew about the scheme. Some who say they didn't are lying because the investigation turned up evidence of their panicking when the scheme might end. Analysis shows these fake classes alone are what made hundreds and hundreds of athletes eligible. (A commentator on an article recalls that) 10 of the 15 players on the 2005 national championship team majored in the department offering the scheme. The end of the scheme caused the lowest football team GPA in a decade.

I'll eat my hat and yours if you can convince me this doesn't blow SMU's paid players scheme out of the water as a justification for a death penalty for those revenue programs and others deeply involved. Strip every win that involved a player who benefited from the scheme too. This is so much more damaging to the notion of a student athlete, involved more people and programs, and continued longer.

The NCAA will probably never use the death penalty again, but they really should.

+1. As one former NCAA investigator said, "this is the gold standard for academic fraud", and should be disciplined as such.

(10-24-2014 11:06 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 09:54 PM)Philoso-Owl Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 08:49 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  I find it mind boggling that there has been absolutely no discipline to anyone in the Athletic Department, or that the NCAA has yet to step in to conduct their own investigation.

(10-24-2014 09:04 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 08:58 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  One of the biggest things I think was what Butch Davis is claiming. He claims not to have known about the fake courses but it was his coaching staff that was in a panic about Crowder retiring and they went to the academic advising department to plead for reinstating the classes. That is where the powerpoint presentation came up.

How about Mike Fox and his coaching staff saying they knew nothing of the courses, but then the e-mail trail show that they were blatantly lying.

UNC had an 18-year scheme of fake classes for 3,100+ students largely aimed at keeping student-athletes, especially those in revenue sports, eligible while receiving no instruction and turning in almost entirely plagiarized work. Advisers to student athletes knew about this and directed student athletes to the scheme. At least some coaches knew about the scheme. Some who say they didn't are lying because the investigation turned up evidence of their panicking when the scheme might end. Analysis shows these fake classes alone are what made hundreds and hundreds of athletes eligible. (A commentator on an article recalls that) 10 of the 15 players on the 2005 national championship team majored in the department offering the scheme. The end of the scheme caused the lowest football team GPA in a decade.

I'll eat my hat and yours if you can convince me this doesn't blow SMU's paid players scheme out of the water as a justification for a death penalty for those revenue programs and others deeply involved. Strip every win that involved a player who benefited from the scheme too. This is so much more damaging to the notion of a student athlete, involved more people and programs, and continued longer.

The NCAA will probably never use the death penalty again, but they really should.

+1. As one former NCAA investigator said, "this is the gold standard for academic fraud", and should be disciplined as such.

Totally agree. UNC should get the Death Penalty period. I doubt that happens but at the very least they should have to pay back a good portion of revenue generated during that period and forfeit any championships.

This sort of thing and all of the other academic fraud going on makes me wish that there was a monetary reward for schools finishing in the top 10 of the annual APR. Of course maybe some are on the top 10 list because of some fraud they have committed.