(10-13-2014 06:59 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(10-13-2014 06:32 PM)magoo Wrote:  

(10-13-2014 06:25 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(10-13-2014 03:52 PM)magoo Wrote:  I just read through the ISU game thread, and watched the game on ISU's TV stream. I hate to bring this thread up again, but feel the need.
We play the same defense, 10 yds off the ball for 4 years and expect different results (insanity). More disappointing is that we don't seem to improve as the years goes on. (coaching). Remember Akron?
We recruit well for a mid major, but don't develop our players.
I don't want to wait any longer to see if this guy can grow into his job.
Let's cut our losses.
PS. maybe we'll win the west and Campbell can get promoted to Illinois

Just ******* stop. It's not going to happen.

promoted to Illinois, or just stop growing....again

Call up Mike and tell him how you feel and watch how fast he..... A) Laughs at you because you sound ridiculous or B) hangs up the phone.

Just stop before you make yourself look more like a fool.

I like the sentiment of the thread.
But understand the guy isn't really on the chopping block.
He's doing his best and we are winning most of the games we should win.
Losing all the games we are underdogs in.
And burn in agonizing defeat in one maybe two games we are favored.
So that's what many expect or the best that CAN be expected perhaps.
UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES.[/i]

(10-13-2014 08:05 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(10-13-2014 07:55 PM)Photodan Wrote:  Coach Pinkel didn't have his breakout year until his fifth season in 1995 when we went 11-0-1.

Coach Campbell has a very young staff and realized, after only two seasons, that he didn't have the right defensive coordinator. Honestly, unless you're paying a few million dollars a year for salary, you just can't demand instant results.

Coaches at this level are more like investments than winning the lottery. (Although it can happen, like with Saban)

Not very good investments considering if they do have a modicum of success, they're out of here. For that reason alone, does it makes sense to give such an inexperienced staff that kind of money? Not rhetorical.

Unfortunately, it's the "cost of doing business."
Sometimes it's a awesome investment when you get lucky, like NIU has, and have three great coaches in a row. (Making a BCS bowl is a significant payoff.) But, that is the exception so you have to deal with growing pains, like we are currently, with a very young staff.

You have to give them some time to develop, like we did with Pinkel. If they obviously aren't working out, I guarantee that AD O'Brien will politely show them the door. (Consider that he made that very decision with Amstutz the same year we beat Michigan)

There is nothing wrong with aspiring to beat power conference teams and have national prestige, but when they don't do it, it shouldn't be looked at as a failure. I think it is silly to be so upset when they don't beat teams they are expected to lose to. Despite Iowa State's record (which is deceiving based on their tough schedule and even though they are not a great team, they were expected to beat Toledo and they did. Missouri and Cincinnati were expected to beat Toledo and they did.

I get the impression that some people believe that Toledo underachieved by losing to Missouri, Cincy, and Iowa State. How does an underdog underachieve by losing to the teams they are not expected to beat?

Matt Campbell is doing a fine job. It is so hard to do what Boise State did. It doesn't happen very often. It requires something special. Even though Toledo doesn't have that "something special" right now, it doesn't mean that they are mediocre. They are a solid mid major team that is a contender for the conference championship. Go Rockets!

I think we probably ought to wait until the guy has a losing season or 6-6 before we talk about firing him. We're not flat-lining yet - let alone declining. I wish we had won at least one of the three games we lost, but that isn't even close to being a fire-able offense. We'll get the big wins but first we have to start playing for and winning MACCs.

I agree with Jeff. I can't imagine firing Campbell for at worst mediocre results even though it's frustrating.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

I get the impression that some people believe that Toledo underachieved by losing to Missouri, Cincy, and Iowa State. How does an underdog underachieve by losing to the teams they are not expected to beat?


Cincinnati isn't what we thought. They are 2-3 and have only beaten UT and barely beat Miami (O). Got their butts kicked by not so good Memphis and Miami (FL) teams.

(10-14-2014 03:48 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  I get the impression that some people believe that Toledo underachieved by losing to Missouri, Cincy, and Iowa State. How does an underdog underachieve by losing to the teams they are not expected to beat?


Cincinnati isn't what we thought. They are 2-3 and have only beaten UT and barely beat Miami (O). Got their butts kicked by not so good Memphis and Miami (FL) teams.

Agreed. If Toledo played anything that resembled a pass defense, perhaps they have a shot at the Bearcats and perhaps Iowa St doesn't score two touchdowns in the first 5 minutes of the second half. Being mediocre is one thing, but having the worst pass defense in all of college football is another. The MACC is still not a gimme for this team. Toledo will lose to BGSU, because BGSU throws the ball, and UMASS is beginning to look like a shootout.

(10-14-2014 06:47 AM)falconplucker Wrote:  

(10-14-2014 03:48 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  I get the impression that some people believe that Toledo underachieved by losing to Missouri, Cincy, and Iowa State. How does an underdog underachieve by losing to the teams they are not expected to beat?


Cincinnati isn't what we thought. They are 2-3 and have only beaten UT and barely beat Miami (O). Got their butts kicked by not so good Memphis and Miami (FL) teams.

Agreed. If Toledo played anything that resembled a pass defense, perhaps they have a shot at the Bearcats and perhaps Iowa St doesn't score two touchdowns in the first 5 minutes of the second half. Being mediocre is one thing, but having the worst pass defense in all of college football is another. The MACC is still not a gimme for this team. Toledo will lose to BGSU, because BGSU throws the ball, and UMASS is beginning to look like a shootout

BG threw passes last year. At their place. With an All MAC QB. UMass has won what? One conference game? Ever? I like our chances.

(10-14-2014 03:48 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  I get the impression that some people believe that Toledo underachieved by losing to Missouri, Cincy, and Iowa State. How does an underdog underachieve by losing to the teams they are not expected to beat?


Cincinnati isn't what we thought. They are 2-3 and have only beaten UT and barely beat Miami (O). Got their butts kicked by not so good Memphis and Miami (FL) teams.

The Bearcats have lost some starters on the line since the Toledo game.
Expected them to lose to OSU. Kiel was injured and left the game in the first half against Memphis. He was not expected to play against the Canes,
but played with banged up ribs. Kiel threw for 355 yds and 3 ints. They'll probably finish up with 7 wins and a Bowl team.

I would hope that the Blade reporter reads these boards. Maybe he could ask Campbell why we play the 10 yards off the line pass defense that we now play. Is it personnel or a coaching philosophy that says give up short yardage but not the bomb. He must have a reason but it would be nice if he was given a chance to explain to us fans who just do not understand why we play a scheme that gives us possibly the worst pass defense in the country.

Pass defense is certainly a problem and I also see room for improvement in a few other facets of the game as well, however, if the coaching staff continues to recruit and to coach at the same level we should expect to see 7-5, 8-4 type seasons virtually every year (although next year 7-5 might look pretty good by the end of the season) but we should not expect any undefeated or 11-1 or 10-2 type seasons until such a time that the program gets a few needed adjustments/tune ups. The coaching staff is still young, so hopefully they are still evolving and once they fix everything so that we finally get that 10-2 or 11-1 type season, they likely will be gone.

Still with it current problems this defense is light years ahead of some of those we had, ironically enough, during the Amstutz era. After Spence left and the offense dropped back to being human again, the D was fully exposed. I remember one year, around 2007 maybe, when something like for 3 weeks in a row our opponent's running back was selected West Offensive Player of the Week after their game with us. We even made the Liberty running back look like a Heisman contender. Our current defense is nowhere near that sad level today.

However, the one thing I do miss from that era is that the current program no longer seems to have the ability to defeat a P5 program. I am still amazed at how on occasions Stutz could get those normally undisciplined teams fired up and focused on playing a P5 team and provide them with a game plan that often worked. Think about it------ if the Rockets had lost to Michigan as they were "supposed too" they would have been 2-9 on the season, not 3-8 with a win over Michigan !

If you recall, one of the things Beckman did was bring in some JUCO's to shore up the defense. Next, they did a good job upgrading the DL, and our LB's are good. They probably should have brought in some JUCO DB's to help out back there. I think that is one are where they were remiss.

(10-14-2014 08:52 AM)T-Town Wrote:  Pass defense is certainly a problem and I also see room for improvement in a few other facets of the game as well, however, if the coaching staff continues to recruit and to coach at the same level we should expect to see 7-5, 8-4 type seasons virtually every year (although next year 7-5 might look pretty good by the end of the season) but we should not expect any undefeated or 11-1 or 10-2 type seasons until such a time that the program gets a few needed adjustments/tune ups. The coaching staff is still young, so hopefully they are still evolving and once they fix everything so that we finally get that 10-2 or 11-1 type season, they likely will be gone.

Still with it current problems this defense is light years ahead of some of those we had, ironically enough, during the Amstutz era. After Spence left and the offense dropped back to being human again, the D was fully exposed. I remember one year, around 2007 maybe, when something like for 3 weeks in a row our opponent's running back was selected West Offensive Player of the Week after their game with us. We even made the Liberty running back look like a Heisman contender. Our current defense is nowhere near that sad level today.

However, the one thing I do miss from that era is that the current program no longer seems to have the ability to defeat a P5 program. I am still amazed at how on occasions Stutz could get those normally undisciplined teams fired up and focused on playing a P5 team and provide them with a game plan that often worked. Think about it------ if the Rockets had lost to Michigan as they were "supposed too" they would have been 2-9 on the season, not 3-8 with a win over Michigan !

Rockets would have been 2-10 if they lost to the Wolverines. Under Stutz, UT went 1-11 on the road against major conference schools and 4-1 in the Glass Bowl. That's 29.4% win percentage overall and an 8.33% on the road. Only 1 of the 5 teams that the Rockets beat had a winning record Pitt(8-5).

(10-14-2014 08:17 AM)Rocket75 Wrote:  I would hope that the Blade reporter reads these boards. Maybe he could ask Campbell why we play the 10 yards off the line pass defense that we now play. Is it personnel or a coaching philosophy that says give up short yardage but not the bomb. He must have a reason but it would be nice if he was given a chance to explain to us fans who just do not understand why we play a scheme that gives us possibly the worst pass defense in the country.

I like this post. I am dying to know the reasoning behind this, as well.

(10-14-2014 09:43 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Rockets would have been 2-10 if they lost to the Wolverines. Under Stutz, UT went 1-11 on the road against major conference schools and 4-1 in the Glass Bowl. That's 29.4% win percentage overall and an 8.33% on the road. Only 1 of the 5 teams that the Rockets beat had a winning record Pitt(8-5).

Just to round out the story, I also looked up Pinkel, Beckman and Campbell's records against schools currently in the P5. FYI--- I ignored games against UConn and Temple (when they were in the Big East) because neither is in a P5 conference today.

Pinkel: 3-5 = 37.5%
Stutz: 5-11 = 31.3%
Beckman: 2-5 = 28.6%
Campbell: 0-5 = 0%

(10-13-2014 06:59 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(10-13-2014 06:32 PM)magoo Wrote:  

(10-13-2014 06:25 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(10-13-2014 03:52 PM)magoo Wrote:  I just read through the ISU game thread, and watched the game on ISU's TV stream. I hate to bring this thread up again, but feel the need.
We play the same defense, 10 yds off the ball for 4 years and expect different results (insanity). More disappointing is that we don't seem to improve as the years goes on. (coaching). Remember Akron?
We recruit well for a mid major, but don't develop our players.
I don't want to wait any longer to see if this guy can grow into his job.
Let's cut our losses.
PS. maybe we'll win the west and Campbell can get promoted to Illinois

Just ******* stop. It's not going to happen.

promoted to Illinois, or just stop growing....again

Call up Mike and tell him how you feel and watch how fast he..... A) Laughs at you because you sound ridiculous or B) hangs up the phone.

Just stop before you make yourself look more like a fool.

Coach Campbell is not going to be fired. Magoo, do you go to any of the games? Have you ever been to a practice? Campbell is a great teacher. The team love him. Yes, our secondary is still weak, we have the best offensive line in the MAC, 4 very good running backs and a defensive line and linebackers that can play with any team in the MAC. So, why don't you just zip your lip.

(10-14-2014 10:43 AM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  

(10-14-2014 08:17 AM)Rocket75 Wrote:  I would hope that the Blade reporter reads these boards. Maybe he could ask Campbell why we play the 10 yards off the line pass defense that we now play. Is it personnel or a coaching philosophy that says give up short yardage but not the bomb. He must have a reason but it would be nice if he was given a chance to explain to us fans who just do not understand why we play a scheme that gives us possibly the worst pass defense in the country.

I like this post. I am dying to know the reasoning behind this, as well.

You can call the coaches' show Monday at 6PM on WSPD. They take questions.

(10-14-2014 04:55 PM)T-Town Wrote:  

(10-14-2014 09:43 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Rockets would have been 2-10 if they lost to the Wolverines. Under Stutz, UT went 1-11 on the road against major conference schools and 4-1 in the Glass Bowl. That's 29.4% win percentage overall and an 8.33% on the road. Only 1 of the 5 teams that the Rockets beat had a winning record Pitt(8-5).

Just to round out the story, I also looked up Pinkel, Beckman and Campbell's records against schools currently in the P5. FYI--- I ignored games against UConn and Temple (when they were in the Big East) because neither is in a P5 conference today.

Pinkel: 3-5 = 37.5%
Stutz: 5-11 = 31.3%
Beckman: 2-5 = 28.6%
Campbell: 0-5 = 0%

That's interesting but not a fire-able offense after two seasons IMO.

(10-14-2014 05:46 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(10-14-2014 04:55 PM)T-Town Wrote:  

(10-14-2014 09:43 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Rockets would have been 2-10 if they lost to the Wolverines. Under Stutz, UT went 1-11 on the road against major conference schools and 4-1 in the Glass Bowl. That's 29.4% win percentage overall and an 8.33% on the road. Only 1 of the 5 teams that the Rockets beat had a winning record Pitt(8-5).

Just to round out the story, I also looked up Pinkel, Beckman and Campbell's records against schools currently in the P5. FYI--- I ignored games against UConn and Temple (when they were in the Big East) because neither is in a P5 conference today.

Pinkel: 3-5 = 37.5%
Stutz: 5-11 = 31.3%
Beckman: 2-5 = 28.6%
Campbell: 0-5 = 0%

That's interesting but not a fire-able offense after two seasons IMO.

Stutz did well with Grads at QB and a year with a spectacular Chester Taylor. pinkel had Bolden and Hujzak along with Tait and McBeth. Campbell inherited TO,an oft injured Fluellen and some other pretty good players. Beckmann inherited Page. point is that great players make coaches look good. We have not had that really good QB in a long time. maybe it was Hanna be Ely. maybe Woodside. looks like Julian isn't even getting a shot.

we need the players - but we could use a really great DC.

(10-14-2014 05:46 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(10-14-2014 04:55 PM)T-Town Wrote:  

(10-14-2014 09:43 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Rockets would have been 2-10 if they lost to the Wolverines. Under Stutz, UT went 1-11 on the road against major conference schools and 4-1 in the Glass Bowl. That's 29.4% win percentage overall and an 8.33% on the road. Only 1 of the 5 teams that the Rockets beat had a winning record Pitt(8-5).

Just to round out the story, I also looked up Pinkel, Beckman and Campbell's records against schools currently in the P5. FYI--- I ignored games against UConn and Temple (when they were in the Big East) because neither is in a P5 conference today.

Pinkel: 3-5 = 37.5%
Stutz: 5-11 = 31.3%
Beckman: 2-5 = 28.6%
Campbell: 0-5 = 0%

That's interesting but not a fire-able offense after two seasons IMO.

Stutz did well with Grads at QB and a year with a spectacular Chester Taylor. pinkel had Bolden and Hujzak along with Tait and McBeth. Campbell inherited TO,an oft injured Fluellen and some other pretty good players. Beckmann inherited Page. point is that great players make coaches look good. We have not had that really good QB in a long time. maybe it was gonna be Ely. maybe Woodside. looks like Julian isn't even getting a shot.

we need the players - but we could use a really great DC.