(10-21-2014 10:43 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 10:25 AM)Maize Wrote:  The NFL is now "Officially Kicking the Tires" on a return to Los Angeles:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-...story.html

Here's the key quote:

"The survey, which draws from several databases, is random in that the NFL is not picking entirely from a pool of people who have already identified themselves as football fans. However, the league is aiming the questionnaire at potential premium customers who are more likely to buy suites, club seats or season tickets, as opposed to the occasional game ticket."

A lot of us focus on the overall attendance and fan bases, but what team owners across all sports care MUCH more about are the upmarket suites and season tickets. That's where LA has so much untapped value - this is the largest concentration of corporations and wealthy individuals in the country outside of the NYC area. All of the "normal fans" are much lower on the totem pole by comparison - the NFL (and to be fair, MLB, NBA and NHL) aren't concerned about them. Those suites are why teams "need" all of these new stadiums and arenas in the first place. (Note that this is also why the college football powers that be want/need neutral sites for the playoff. They don't care about the regular fans being able to make the trip as much as the ability to sell high dollar suites in major market stadiums to corporations years in advance.)

Pro Football Talk obtained a copy of the survey the NFL sent out:

Much of the survey focuses on whether folks want the NFL to return to L.A. and which teams they prefer (with the survey pointing out that “a number of NFL teams that have existing, long-term stadium leases and well-established fan bases, and are not candidates to relocate to the Los Angeles area”), many of the questions focus on the various permutations of PSLs and ticket prices.

The proposed PSLs are as high as $50,000, with payment options including 10 years at eight percent interest, or annual installments beginning three years before the stadium opens.

The survey also extends an invitation to participate in focus groups regarding seating options, pricing and potential amenities.

Perhaps most importantly, the survey asks, “Would you like to be contacted regarding various seating options you showed interest in?”

In other words, “Get your checkbook ready.”

Click the “continue reading” link to see all of the questions.


“Are you a fan of the National Football League?”

“Which NFL team is your favorite?”

“Do you attend NFL games on an annual basis?”

“How would you describe your (your company’s) attitude towards an NFL team in the Los Angeles area?”

“If a current NFL team relocated to the Los Angeles area, would the identity of the team change your attitude towards a NFL team in the Los Angeles area?”

“If a new stadium is constructed in the Los Angeles area to serve as the home of an NFL team, how would you describe your (your company’s) interest in attending the team’s home football games?”

“On a scale of 1 to 7, with ‘1’ being Not Important and ‘7’ being Very Important, please indicate the importance of the following stadium features in your (your company’s) decision to attend future NFL games in the Los Angeles area.” (Categories are: Stadium Location, Stadium Accessibility from Freeways, Availability of On-Site Parking, Stadium Proximity to Public Transit, Stadium Proximity to Entertainment District (i.e., restaurants, bars, hotels, etc.), and Ability to Tailgate.)

“Do you have general season tickets to any professional or collegiate sports team(s) in the Los Angeles area?”

“Do you have a luxury suite for any professional or collegiate sports team(s) in the Los Angeles area?”

“How would you characterize your (or your company’s) interest in purchasing tickets at a new NFL stadium in the Los Angeles area?”

“Should an existing NFL team relocate to the Los Angeles area, to what degree would the identity of the team impact your interest in purchasing tickets?”

“Please specify which existing NFL team you would most prefer to relocate to the Los Angeles area (Please note that there are a number of NFL teams that have existing, long-term stadium leases and well-established fan bases, and are not candidates to relocate to the Los Angeles area.)”

“If the relocated NFL team was not your most preferred team, how would that impact your interest in purchasing tickets?”

“If the relocated team was not your most preferred, please specify which team you would want to relocate to the Los Angeles area.”

“On a scale of ‘1’ to ‘7’ with ‘1’ being ‘Not Important’ and ‘7’ being ‘Very Important,’ how would you rate the importance of the following amenities at a new NFL stadium in the Los Angeles area?” (Categories are: In-seat food/beverage service, All-inclusive food & non-alcoholic beverages, High quality food/beverage options, Close proximity parking, Premium seating options (club seats, loge boxes, luxury suites, etc.), Special ticket holder events (team meet & greet, watch practice), Option to purchase tickets to other events at the stadium.)

“Seat Location Preference” (including a seating chart with general and club seating at three levels, and a request to identify the top three preferred locations, “understanding the most prime locations would be more expensive”).

“Over the past decade, most new NFL stadiums have utilized the sale of Personal Seat Licenses (‘PSL’) to help fund construction. Do you know what a PSL is and how it works?”

“Upper Level Sideline” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $6,500 and annual cost of $1,500 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Upper Level Sideline” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $6,500 and annual cost of $1,250 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Upper Level Sideline” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $3,250 and annual cost of $1,250 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Upper Level Sideline” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $6,500 and annual cost of $1,000 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Upper Level Sideline” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $3,250 and annual cost of $1,250 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“If you made the decision to purchase season tickets located along the sidelines of the upper level of a new NFL stadium in the Los Angeles area, how many would you purchase?”

“Multiple payment options could be available for Personal Seat Licenses associated with the purchase of tickers in a new stadium located in the Los Angeles area, including interest-free payment in installments for the three-year period prior to the stadium opening or financing the cost for up to 10 years with interest. Which would you (your company) be most likely to choose?”

“Lower Level Club Seat” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $50,000 and annual cost of $4,500 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Lower Level Club Seat” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $25,000 and annual cost of $4,500 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Lower Level Club Seat” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $50,000 and annual cost of $3,750 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Lower Level Club Seat” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $25,000 and annual cost of $3,750 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Lower Level Club Seat” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $50,000 and annual cost of $3,000 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Lower Level Club Seat” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $25,000 and annual cost of $3,000 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Mezzanine Level Club Seat” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $25,000 and annual cost of $4,500 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Mezzanine Level Club Seat” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $12,500 and annual cost of $4,500 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Mezzanine Level Club Seat” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $25,000 and annual cost of $3,750 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Mezzanine Level Club Seat” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $12,500 and annual cost of $3,750 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Mezzanine Level Club Seat” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $25,000 and annual cost of $3,000 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Mezzanine Level Club Seat” season-ticket interest with a suggested seat license of $12,500 and annual cost of $3,000 for season tickets and PSL financing options including three interest-free installments and 10-year financing at 8 percent interest.

“Loge Boxes” season-ticket interest, with each box holding four to eight people.

“Among all of the seating options that may be available in a new NFL stadium in the Los Angeles area, please choose the single option you would most likely purchase.”

“A new NFL stadium in the Los Angeles area could host a variety of other events, including concerts, motorsports, other sporting events, etc. Would you have interest in attending other events at a new NFL stadium in the Los Angeles area?”

“Please indicate which other events you would be interested in attending at a new NFL stadium in the Los Angeles area?” (Choices are NCAA Football, International Soccer, Concerts, Motorsports, other sporting events, religious events, and “other”.)

“What zip code is your primary residence?”

“What is your gender?”

“What is your age?”

“What is your annual household income?”

“CSL in planning to conduct a series of focus group sessions in order to gain additional insights regarding seating options, pricing and potential amenities offered in a new NFL stadium in Los Angeles. Would you be interested in attending a focus group session?”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...s-tickets/

(10-21-2014 01:38 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 12:00 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(10-20-2014 07:32 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The only thing about San Antonio/Austin is that the Texas Longhorns are essentially a pro football team, so you can't full merge them (not to mention that they are, in fact, two separate metro areas). That said San Antonio would do better than Jacksonville today. St. Louis? Probably not because St. Louis has been an NFL market, off and on, for 50 years. Also, in the major nearby market of Chicago, Soldier Field is a relatively small stadium, so some people throughout Illinois will instead go to St. Louis to get their NFL fix in person.

As for Sacramento, the fact is while it's not directly local, the Raiders are only an hour or so away so they essentially have a team and if they want them bad enough, they'll build a stadium (but they're too worried about keeping the Kings to worry about getting them). Not to mention I would only presume the 49ers have a large presence there, so having three teams up there would be as futile as placing an NBA team in the Inland Empire (SoCal). Portland could work but again, no history and they're loyal to the Seahawks and Oregon.

The thing with any Midwestern city is that you're not just looking at the direct metro area - there's also a large fanbase outside the metro area that can drive in for gameday. You don't get that in other areas in the country to anywhere near the same extent.

For example, St. Louis is within 2 hours of Evansville, Peoria, Springfield (IL), Carbondale, Columbia, and Jefferson City. Those places add 1.4 million to the potential fanbase, and there's probably another 1-2 million farmers in between.

And St. Louis is one of the more isolated cities in the Midwest. Cincinnati is within 2 hours of Dayton, Louisville, Lexington, Columbus, Springfield (OH), Columbus (IN), Ashland (KY), and Indianapolis. Even if you don't count Indy (due to the Colts), that's an extra 5.1 million potential fans. Unlike Sacramento, they don't have to share those fans with local teams like the 49ers/Raiders. That's a huge (albeit segmented) market. Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, Indianapolis, and even Chicago are all in similar situations to Cincinnati.

That's somewhat true in general, but there are some specific differences between markets and certain fan bases. The Bears have much a more wide-reaching fan base (similar to the Cowboys, Packers and Steelers), which is to the detriment of any NFL team in St. Louis. The Rams have been in St. Louis for almost two decades, but the Bears have continued to dominate all of the state of Illinois with the exception of the counties that are directly in the St. Louis TV market itself. There is no base of Illinois residents that travels to Rams games because they can't get Bears tickets as someone else suggested - the state is simply Bears territory. At the same time, the Rams fan base is hemmed in to the west of St. Louis by the relatively strong Chiefs fan base.

This is in contrast to the St. Louis Cardinals, who are the exact opposite for baseball. Their fan base extends far into Downstate Illinois and much farther west in Missouri. So, Springfield, IL is a Bears/Cardinals town, while Springfield, MO is a Chiefs/Cardinals town.

You can see this in the NFL and MLB Facebook fan maps:

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/imag...jgfwew.jpg

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/....html?_r=0

That's why I'm so skeptical of St. Louis as an NFL market in the long-term. The Rams still haven't broken through the Bears fan base to the east and the Chiefs fan base to the west after all of this time, so it's difficult to see some other franchise doing any better. It wasn't as if the Rams have been complete dogs on the field, either. The Rams won a Super Bowl quickly after their relocation from LA, but they never built that into a solid fan base in the way that, say, the Ravens did in Baltimore. At the same time, the St. Louis market in and of itself isn't large enough to receive any preferential treatment (unlike the LA market).

Once again, though, it all comes down to the stadium deal. If St. Louis can build a top notch stadium, then they'll have a team. If they can't, then they're not going to receive any special consideration. If the NFL could ignore LA because of the lack of an "acceptable" stadium (AKA one with tons of high dollar suites for corporations and rich people), then the NFL can ignore any other market.

Just took a look at the attendance numbers for all the NFL cities this year. I was surprised to see that St Louis attendance at the Edward Jones Dome has actually increased this year despite all the rumors. Actually it is the highest since 2008. As far as your comments as to the reach of the Cardinals baseball team, they conducted a survey in my present location in South MS, and found 30% Cardinal support even down here. Lots of Cardinals hats and shirts down here. You also find significant support for the Cardinals in Arkansas, Kentucky, and Tennessee, where our AAA team is located...

(10-22-2014 11:45 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  As far as your comments as to the reach of the Cardinals baseball team, they conducted a survey in my present location in South MS, and found 30% Cardinal support even down here. Lots of Cardinals hats and shirts down here. You also find significant support for the Cardinals in Arkansas, Kentucky, and Tennessee, where our AAA team is located...

The Cardinals have a significant reach in fanbase because for a long time they were the westernmost team, and southernmost team in the midwest, and their radio broadcasts (and later TV) were carried in every city in the west, south, and southeast of St. Louis., in addition to eastern states like Kentucky and Southern Illinois and Indiana. It didn't hurt that they are probably the most successful National League team. In terms of regional geographic fanbases, the Cardinals might have the largest reach of any team in any sport (I use the term "regional" to describe the size of their geographical footprint reach, as compared to "national" fanbases like the Yankees, Cowboys, Steelers, Cubs, Lakers, Celtics, and Packers).

IIRC the Royals fanbase used to extend well into Colorado for the same reasons, before the Rockies and Diamnond backs came on the scene. As their TV and radio broadcasts went everyplace west up to California.

(10-21-2014 10:43 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 10:25 AM)Maize Wrote:  The NFL is now "Officially Kicking the Tires" on a return to Los Angeles:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-...story.html

Here's the key quote:

"The survey, which draws from several databases, is random in that the NFL is not picking entirely from a pool of people who have already identified themselves as football fans. However, the league is aiming the questionnaire at potential premium customers who are more likely to buy suites, club seats or season tickets, as opposed to the occasional game ticket."

A lot of us focus on the overall attendance and fan bases, but what team owners across all sports care MUCH more about are the upmarket suites and season tickets. That's where LA has so much untapped value - this is the largest concentration of corporations and wealthy individuals in the country outside of the NYC area. All of the "normal fans" are much lower on the totem pole by comparison - the NFL (and to be fair, MLB, NBA and NHL) aren't concerned about them. Those suites are why teams "need" all of these new stadiums and arenas in the first place. (Note that this is also why the college football powers that be want/need neutral sites for the playoff. They don't care about the regular fans being able to make the trip as much as the ability to sell high dollar suites in major market stadiums to corporations years in advance.)

Definitely including NBA and NHL. LA is a good example. I went to a LA Kings game at Staples Center and sat in the premium seats (not on my dime), and the entire experience is geared to the expense-account crowd. The common fans in the very-high upper decks seem like an afterthought there. I assume that is also the NFL vision for a new LA football stadium.

In the NFL, the luxury suites and club seats the revenue doesn't have to be shared with the visiting team. Regular tickets its a 60/40 split. LA would be a gold mine for the luxury suites and club seats.

(10-22-2014 08:33 AM)Maize Wrote:  Pro Football Talk obtained a copy of the survey the NFL sent out:

[i]Much of the survey focuses on whether folks want the NFL to return to L.A. and which teams they prefer (with the survey pointing out that “a number of NFL teams that have existing, long-term stadium leases and well-established fan bases, and are not candidates to relocate to the Los Angeles area”), many of the questions focus on the various permutations of PSLs and ticket prices.

The proposed PSLs are as high as $50,000, with payment options including 10 years at eight percent interest, or annual installments beginning three years before the stadium opens.

The survey also extends an invitation to participate in focus groups regarding seating options, pricing and potential amenities.

Perhaps most importantly, the survey asks, “Would you like to be contacted regarding various seating options you showed interest in?”

In other words, “Get your checkbook ready.”

Click the “continue reading” link to see all of the questions.

A similar survey was sent out earlier this month by the City of San Antonio and the Raiders regarding a potential move to the Alamocity.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/a...811435.php

(10-22-2014 04:32 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 08:33 AM)Maize Wrote:  Pro Football Talk obtained a copy of the survey the NFL sent out:

[i]Much of the survey focuses on whether folks want the NFL to return to L.A. and which teams they prefer (with the survey pointing out that “a number of NFL teams that have existing, long-term stadium leases and well-established fan bases, and are not candidates to relocate to the Los Angeles area”), many of the questions focus on the various permutations of PSLs and ticket prices.

The proposed PSLs are as high as $50,000, with payment options including 10 years at eight percent interest, or annual installments beginning three years before the stadium opens.

The survey also extends an invitation to participate in focus groups regarding seating options, pricing and potential amenities.

Perhaps most importantly, the survey asks, “Would you like to be contacted regarding various seating options you showed interest in?”

In other words, “Get your checkbook ready.”

Click the “continue reading” link to see all of the questions.

A similar survey was sent out earlier this month by the City of San Antonio and the Raiders regarding a potential move to the Alamocity.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/a...811435.php

Meanwhile today in Oakland, California:

OAKLAND -- Hope for a new Oakland Raiders football stadium got a big boost Tuesday as the City Council approved the inclusion of a new investment group that will take the lead in trying to transform 120 acres surrounding O.Co Coliseum and the Oracle Arena into a sports and entertainment center.

New City Development, LLC is being fronted by Floyd Kephart, Chairman of The Renaissance Companies, a San Diego-based consulting firm that advises several leading hedge funds.

Kephart's arrival on the scene appears to have at least temporarily rescued the development project known as Coliseum City just two weeks before the city's mayoral election, although there remains concern that progress on a football stadium could make it harder for Oakland to keep its baseball team, which is also interested in building at the Coliseum site.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/my-town/ci_...iseum-city

(10-21-2014 01:27 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Just to be fair about this attendance thing, I made it a point to check for empty seats last night during the Steelers game. The stadium looked pretty full, but there were a whole lot of complete rows of empty yellow seats. No way that was a sellout...

I guarantee you it was a sellout. There may not have been people in those seats but those tickets were definitely sold.

Those yellow seats show every last person who is not there, or at the concession stand, or in the bathroom, etc. They serve the same purpose as a highlighter pen. Whoever green lit bright yellow seats for a stadium is a moron.

However, the Steelers have a season ticket waiting list that is about 30 years long. I think you have to live in this city to grasp just how all encompassing the Steelers are here and how suffocating that is to the area's college football programs.

(10-22-2014 10:18 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 01:27 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Just to be fair about this attendance thing, I made it a point to check for empty seats last night during the Steelers game. The stadium looked pretty full, but there were a whole lot of complete rows of empty yellow seats. No way that was a sellout...

I guarantee you it was a sellout. There may not have been people in those seats but those tickets were definitely sold.

Those yellow seats show every last person who is not there, or at the concession stand, or in the bathroom, etc. They serve the same purpose as a highlighter pen. Whoever green lit bright yellow seats for a stadium is a moron.

However, the Steelers have a season ticket waiting list that is about 30 years long. I think you have to live in this city to grasp just how all encompassing the Steelers are here and how suffocating that is to the area's college football programs.

Oh I believe you. It was just that rows of 15-20 seats were empty. I do not doubt the Steelers fans loyalty.

(10-22-2014 09:27 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 04:32 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 08:33 AM)Maize Wrote:  Pro Football Talk obtained a copy of the survey the NFL sent out:

[i]Much of the survey focuses on whether folks want the NFL to return to L.A. and which teams they prefer (with the survey pointing out that “a number of NFL teams that have existing, long-term stadium leases and well-established fan bases, and are not candidates to relocate to the Los Angeles area”), many of the questions focus on the various permutations of PSLs and ticket prices.

The proposed PSLs are as high as $50,000, with payment options including 10 years at eight percent interest, or annual installments beginning three years before the stadium opens.

The survey also extends an invitation to participate in focus groups regarding seating options, pricing and potential amenities.

Perhaps most importantly, the survey asks, “Would you like to be contacted regarding various seating options you showed interest in?”

In other words, “Get your checkbook ready.”

Click the “continue reading” link to see all of the questions.

A similar survey was sent out earlier this month by the City of San Antonio and the Raiders regarding a potential move to the Alamocity.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/a...811435.php

Meanwhile today in Oakland, California:

OAKLAND -- Hope for a new Oakland Raiders football stadium got a big boost Tuesday as the City Council approved the inclusion of a new investment group that will take the lead in trying to transform 120 acres surrounding O.Co Coliseum and the Oracle Arena into a sports and entertainment center.

New City Development, LLC is being fronted by Floyd Kephart, Chairman of The Renaissance Companies, a San Diego-based consulting firm that advises several leading hedge funds.

Kephart's arrival on the scene appears to have at least temporarily rescued the development project known as Coliseum City just two weeks before the city's mayoral election, although there remains concern that progress on a football stadium could make it harder for Oakland to keep its baseball team, which is also interested in building at the Coliseum site.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/my-town/ci_...iseum-city

This talks about the land surrounding the Stadium but what about the Stadium itself?

(10-22-2014 11:33 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 09:27 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 04:32 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 08:33 AM)Maize Wrote:  Pro Football Talk obtained a copy of the survey the NFL sent out:

[i]Much of the survey focuses on whether folks want the NFL to return to L.A. and which teams they prefer (with the survey pointing out that “a number of NFL teams that have existing, long-term stadium leases and well-established fan bases, and are not candidates to relocate to the Los Angeles area”), many of the questions focus on the various permutations of PSLs and ticket prices.

The proposed PSLs are as high as $50,000, with payment options including 10 years at eight percent interest, or annual installments beginning three years before the stadium opens.

The survey also extends an invitation to participate in focus groups regarding seating options, pricing and potential amenities.

Perhaps most importantly, the survey asks, “Would you like to be contacted regarding various seating options you showed interest in?”

In other words, “Get your checkbook ready.”

Click the “continue reading” link to see all of the questions.

A similar survey was sent out earlier this month by the City of San Antonio and the Raiders regarding a potential move to the Alamocity.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/a...811435.php

Meanwhile today in Oakland, California:

OAKLAND -- Hope for a new Oakland Raiders football stadium got a big boost Tuesday as the City Council approved the inclusion of a new investment group that will take the lead in trying to transform 120 acres surrounding O.Co Coliseum and the Oracle Arena into a sports and entertainment center.

New City Development, LLC is being fronted by Floyd Kephart, Chairman of The Renaissance Companies, a San Diego-based consulting firm that advises several leading hedge funds.

Kephart's arrival on the scene appears to have at least temporarily rescued the development project known as Coliseum City just two weeks before the city's mayoral election, although there remains concern that progress on a football stadium could make it harder for Oakland to keep its baseball team, which is also interested in building at the Coliseum site.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/my-town/ci_...iseum-city

This talks about the land surrounding the Stadium but what about the Stadium itself?

The theory is that development of the surrounding land will provide the money needed for two new stadiums, one for the A's and one for the Raiders. But so far the A's owners are saying they'd rather develop a chunk of land and pay for the ballpark themselves and control their own piece of the whole deal. And they will have a lot of leverage in Oakland if the Raiders move out.

(10-23-2014 12:24 AM)Wedge Wrote:  The theory is that development of the surrounding land will provide the money needed for two new stadiums, one for the A's and one for the Raiders. But so far the A's owners are saying they'd rather develop a chunk of land and pay for the ballpark themselves and control their own piece of the whole deal. And they will have a lot of leverage in Oakland if the Raiders move out.

I have a feeling the new MLB Commissioner is going to allow the A's to move to San Jose.

IS there enough land for a Kansas City type setup of a football and baseball stadium in Oakland? aren't the warriors moving to San Fran so their arena can get knocked down.

I remember when the St Louis football Cardinals played at the old Busch Stadium, it had a capacity of around 55000 plus. The Rams, despite all the relocation rumors and bad performances for a decade, are presently drawing 58,000, which would have completely sold out that venue with 3000 to spare. I am reasonably sure the Rams are not losing any money, and the facts are that SK has a nice little deal with the Edward Jones Dome. He does not have to be in any hurry to get a new St Louis stadium. I am confident that L.A. will screw this up just like they blew their chance at expansion. They are discussing charging up to $50,000 for PSL licenses, at 8% over ten years.... seriously?

(10-23-2014 12:12 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  They are discussing charging up to $50,000 for PSL licenses, at 8% over ten years.... seriously?

Those are for some club seats. And I have news for you, I know that sounds insane, but there are a LOT of people in Arlington who have paid that much and more for their PSL's, an not necessarily for the best seats either. Yes that is the cowboys vs. (insert team here), but Los Angeles is also about being "seen," and that alone will drive up the price of the best seats, making those PSL's very, very valuable.

Jack Nicholson's Lakers' seats run north of $200k per year. That is EVERY year. By comparison, a one time $50k fee is almost chump change.

(10-23-2014 09:58 AM)bluesox Wrote:  IS there enough land for a Kansas City type setup of a football and baseball stadium in Oakland? aren't the warriors moving to San Fran so their arena can get knocked down.

Yes, there is enough land, and they have commissioned drawings that show where each proposed stadium would go.

Doubtful that they would tear down the arena even after the Warriors leave. That will be at least a few more years, and the arena is paid for and can generate income from concerts and other events.

(10-23-2014 09:58 AM)bluesox Wrote:  IS there enough land for a Kansas City type setup of a football and baseball stadium in Oakland? aren't the warriors moving to San Fran so their arena can get knocked down.

There's lots of space for both stadiums, but the newest scam in stadium financing is team owners demanding development rights and free land in the area surrounding their stadiums. That's in addition to tax breaks, money and land for the stadium itself, and operating subsidies that city and states are already paying out. Both the A's and Raiders want the land for themselves. Building two stadiums on the site would mean less total land available for development and the owners would have to share the profits. Now, why either of them is entitled to any of the land at all is a whole other question and one I can't answer.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_...dium-lease

Watching this game in London this morning. I get the sense that the NFL may be placing a team there really soon. Only a five hour difference. It is three hours difference between the east and west coast. Wembley looks pretty full and the fans really like out brand of football. My question is this. How would their laws vs. our laws be worked out regarding NFL policies and procedures, unions, etc. ?What courts would have jurisdiction?

Not sure im sold (even Aikman said as much). But to answer your last question, just look at the other three leagues, who all have Canadian teams, for guidance.

A team in London won't work without a full division of teams. Place one or two in Germany and perhaps one in Ireland (where they play a form of football).