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Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
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QuestionSocratic Offline
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Post: #1
Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
Looks like Tom Steyer and the "environmentalist" money has bought the day. The US will no longer have to allow Canada's oil to travel across our lands to Gulf Coast refineries.

Canada has decided to build its own pipeline, across Canada, not to the Pacific, but to their own Atlantic refineries, where they will have access to Europe and India.

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper signaled the Norths' intentions when, in September, he gave a speech in London, wherein he noted:

Quote: “We know that the United States is unlikely to be a fast-growing economy for many years to come,”

Apparently he doesn't appreciate the economic benefits from a windmill and solar mirror economy.

So long, Keystone
10-10-2014 08:45 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
While I'm hopeful the Atlantic option will work, Im sure the resident Greenpeace agitators up north are formulating a response. I'm sure they are planning a couple of photo ops with oil covered Canadian geese to get the point across.
10-10-2014 08:50 AM
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Native Georgian Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
Vandiver: point taken about the GreenPeace activists. No doubt such people exist in all sections of Canada (save, perhaps, Alberta). But one thing to keep in mind: the image of Canada held by many Americans (a more liberal version of Washington/Oregon, combined with a more liberal version of New England) is probably accurate when it comes to social issues. But the Canadian economy simply cannot function -- at all -- if the oil/natural gas industry is crippled. There was overwhelming support amongst all Canada's non-Green parties for the Keystone project, and I have no doubt there will be the same kind of support for the "Plan B" announced by Harper.
10-10-2014 09:02 AM
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VA49er Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
Good for Canada for not waiting any longer on the US.
10-10-2014 09:04 AM
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200yrs2late Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
(10-10-2014 08:45 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper signaled the Norths' intentions when, in September, he gave a speech in London, wherein he noted:

Quote: “We know that the United States is unlikely to be a fast-growing economy for many years to come,”

So long, Keystone

Zing.....
10-10-2014 09:25 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
(10-10-2014 09:02 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Vandiver: point taken about the GreenPeace activists. No doubt such people exist in all sections of Canada (save, perhaps, Alberta). But one thing to keep in mind: the image of Canada held by many Americans (a more liberal version of Washington/Oregon, combined with a more liberal version of New England) is probably accurate when it comes to social issues. But the Canadian economy simply cannot function -- at all -- if the oil/natural gas industry is crippled. There was overwhelming support amongst all Canada's non-Green parties for the Keystone project, and I have no doubt there will be the same kind of support for the "Plan B" announced by Harper.

I know this and I'm sure the move has a lot of support. But keep in mind activists torpedoed the Gulf access route along with the Pacific option. Routing the pipeline through the sparsely populated provinces of Ontario and Quebec won't be easy. Defeating this last gasp would be hailed as a major win for environmentalists if they are able to thwart this plan.
10-10-2014 10:08 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
This new Canadian route is a major key to reducing Western Europe's dependence on Putin's Russia as North Sea oil production declines.
10-10-2014 10:13 AM
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VA49er Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
(10-10-2014 10:13 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  This new Canadian route is a major key to reducing Western Europe's dependence on Putin's Russia as North Sea oil production declines.

Hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the info.
10-10-2014 10:15 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
(10-10-2014 10:13 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  This new Canadian route is a major key to reducing Western Europe's dependence on Putin's Russia as North Sea oil production declines.

Along with new LNG ports in the US, both new accesses should help Europe greatly. And while I would like this option to succeed, I think what might ultimately end up happening is this the oil is transported to the Gulf on rail (take a look at CN's System Map) along with barge transport along the St Lawrence Seaway.
10-10-2014 10:24 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
(10-10-2014 10:24 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(10-10-2014 10:13 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  This new Canadian route is a major key to reducing Western Europe's dependence on Putin's Russia as North Sea oil production declines.

Along with new LNG ports in the US, both new accesses should help Europe greatly. And while I would like this option to succeed, I think what might ultimately end up happening is this the oil is transported to the Gulf on rail (take a look at CN's System Map) along with barge transport along the St Lawrence Seaway.

Both of which options are far worse for the environment than the pipeline.
10-10-2014 10:26 AM
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Native Georgian Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
(10-10-2014 10:08 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  keep in mind activists torpedoed the Gulf access route along with the Pacific option
The issue of Gulf access got tangled up in American politics, not Canadian. And the Pacific option had to do with Canada's sensitivity to the aboriginal "First Nations", not environmental concerns. I'm sure there are Some people in Ontario/Quebec who don't want this thing to go through. But I'm also sure that such people represent a distinct minority of Canadian opinion and will not be able to prevent this.

(10-10-2014 10:26 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-10-2014 10:24 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  what might ultimately end up happening is this the oil is transported to the Gulf on rail (take a look at CN's System Map) along with barge transport along the St Lawrence Seaway.

Both of which options are far worse for the environment than the pipeline.
Very true, Owl. But no one ever accused "environmentalists" of being super-intelligent.

Agree with Vandiver's prediction, too.
10-10-2014 10:39 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
I know American politics held the Gulf route up, but the arguments against Keystone were wrapped in environmental rhetoric. I similarly thought the Pacific option was nixed because of having to traverse the Canadian Rockies and British Columbia worrying about disturbing the glacial remnants still in the area. I'll have to another look.
10-10-2014 11:08 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
(10-10-2014 11:08 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I know American politics held the Gulf route up, but the arguments against Keystone were wrapped in environmental rhetoric. I similarly thought the Pacific option was nixed because of having to traverse the Canadian Rockies and British Columbia worrying about disturbing the glacial remnants still in the area. I'll have to another look.

Maybe not the only issue, but one huge problem with the Pacific option is cost. It will cost way more to run the pipeline up and down mountains, and way, way more to pump the oil through that pipeline once it is built, and the economics just aren't there.

Going south to the Gulf or east to the Maritimes is a much flatter go, and even though longer it will be far cheaper in the end.
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2014 11:20 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
10-10-2014 11:19 AM
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QuestionSocratic Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
Many people have speculated that the crude oil will simply be moved by train. But now comes the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (Yep it's real) to suggest new restrictions on RR cars transporting oil and gas.

The net result is that using rail will become less cost efficient. What's next: trucks.

The real goal for Tom Steyer and the environmentalist wackos, is to shut down America's carbon industry. No matter what the cost!

How to destroy jobs and the economy
10-13-2014 10:33 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
If this Canadian line goes through, I would expect that we'd find connectors being built to existing oil fields in places like Alberta, and a lot of that oil would be diverted to the higher paying European market. From Europe's perspective, you can depend on Canada or you can depend on Putin. That's not a difficult decision.
10-13-2014 11:29 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
(10-13-2014 10:33 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Many people have speculated that the crude oil will simply be moved by train. But now comes the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (Yep it's real) to suggest new restrictions on RR cars transporting oil and gas.

The net result is that using rail will become less cost efficient. What's next: trucks.

The real goal for Tom Steyer and the environmentalist wackos, is to shut down America's carbon industry. No matter what the cost!

How to destroy jobs and the economy

While this idiocy pisses me off to no end, I hopeful that people will appropriately see that this administration is purposely trying to kneecap the country's economy and energy assets. As mentioned in the article, the upgrades would only work at/below 20 MPH. Most trains are going faster than that.
10-13-2014 02:12 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
(10-13-2014 02:12 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(10-13-2014 10:33 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Many people have speculated that the crude oil will simply be moved by train. But now comes the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (Yep it's real) to suggest new restrictions on RR cars transporting oil and gas.
The net result is that using rail will become less cost efficient. What's next: trucks.
The real goal for Tom Steyer and the environmentalist wackos, is to shut down America's carbon industry. No matter what the cost!
How to destroy jobs and the economy
While this idiocy pisses me off to no end, I hopeful that people will appropriately see that this administration is purposely trying to kneecap the country's economy and energy assets. As mentioned in the article, the upgrades would only work at/below 20 MPH. Most trains are going faster than that.

I don't know that they are purposely trying to kneecap the economy. I think it's entirely possible that they just fail to comprehend the impact of their actions and proposals. Remember, none of them, literally none of them, have ever actually DONE anything.
10-13-2014 03:21 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
(10-13-2014 02:12 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  While this idiocy pisses me off to no end, I'm hopeful that people will appropriately see that this administration is purposely trying to kneecap the country's economy and energy assets.
Everyone who has eyes to see has already seen it. The rest are either blind or just don't care.
10-13-2014 03:53 PM
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
Enbridge is working on some Tar Sands Pipeline Projects into the US.
10-13-2014 06:27 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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RE: Well we can finely stop worrying about the Keystone pipeline
Have any of you guys followed oil stocks lately. They are cratering.
10-13-2014 07:28 PM
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