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Pearl Harbor
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Pearl Harbor
(10-06-2014 09:45 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 09:06 PM)Smaug Wrote:  I just wish Ben Affleck would have stayed dead.

Best part of that steaming pile of fecal matter of a so-called movie. I walked out when they showed he was still alive.

Well, Kate Beckinsale was in it, so there's that.
10-07-2014 11:26 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Pearl Harbor
(10-06-2014 09:25 AM)RobUCF Wrote:  It may have extended the war, but it wouldn't have changed the result. I find this to be an interesting article summarizing what the Japanese were really facing:

http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm

This is my go to article for anything related to the War in the Pacific.
10-10-2014 02:48 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Pearl Harbor
That is an interesting article but it doesn't tell the whole story. Japan's Naval air service did not lack for planes, in fact most Japanese military forces never really lacked for equipment, but they completely lacked trained aircrews, experienced pilots, etc. Throughout the war the Japanese also stockpiled massive amounts of hardware on the home islands and did not ship it throughout the pacific, even though as late as Nov of 44' they maintained a nearly intact transit system throughout the empire.
10-11-2014 11:01 AM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Pearl Harbor
(10-11-2014 11:01 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  That is an interesting article but it doesn't tell the whole story. Japan's Naval air service did not lack for planes, in fact most Japanese military forces never really lacked for equipment, but they completely lacked trained aircrews, experienced pilots, etc. Throughout the war the Japanese also stockpiled massive amounts of hardware on the home islands and did not ship it throughout the pacific, even though as late as Nov of 44' they maintained a nearly intact transit system throughout the empire.

The Germans and the Japanese would let their best pilots fly till they were killed. This is why Germany has fighter aces with hundreds of kills, but its a terrible waste of a good pilot. There comes a point where you are wasting their talents IN the cockpit. The US would yank experienced crews to pass that experience on to other crews. Had the Japanese Naval Air Arm and especially the Luftwaffe done this the war would have been much harder. Neither lacked airplanes even late in the war.
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2014 05:33 PM by 49RFootballNow.)
10-11-2014 05:32 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Pearl Harbor
I think the importance of the size of the material advantage is overplayed a bit by many historians.
10-11-2014 06:21 PM
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runamuck Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Pearl Harbor
(10-11-2014 06:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think the importance of the size of the material advantage is overplayed a bit by many historians.

basically the war was decided in favor of the allies once the u.s. was in. we had vast amounts of available men and resources and an ocean on each end for protection. it was just a matter of gearing up and formulating the best strategy. from what I have read, pretty soon after we entered the war the deal making began for who gets what afterward. it was only a matter of time before the japanese ran out of resources and the germans ran out of manpower.
12-11-2014 09:10 AM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Pearl Harbor
(12-11-2014 09:10 AM)runamuck Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 06:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think the importance of the size of the material advantage is overplayed a bit by many historians.

basically the war was decided in favor of the allies once the u.s. was in. we had vast amounts of available men and resources and an ocean on each end for protection. it was just a matter of gearing up and formulating the best strategy. from what I have read, pretty soon after we entered the war the deal making began for who gets what afterward. it was only a matter of time before the japanese ran out of resources and the germans ran out of manpower.

The interesting thing is that both Germany and Japan, despite the constant bombing of their manufacturing centers, still were making considerable amounts of war equipment right up to their respective surrenders. Japan had nearly 9000 warplanes dispersed throughout Northern Honshu, Korea and Manchuria in preparation for Operations Olympic and Coronet. Its the lack of TRAINED manpower to operate that equipment and a lack of fuel that were the nails in their respective coffins.
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2014 10:09 AM by 49RFootballNow.)
12-11-2014 10:07 AM
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runamuck Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Pearl Harbor
(12-11-2014 10:07 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  
(12-11-2014 09:10 AM)runamuck Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 06:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think the importance of the size of the material advantage is overplayed a bit by many historians.

basically the war was decided in favor of the allies once the u.s. was in. we had vast amounts of available men and resources and an ocean on each end for protection. it was just a matter of gearing up and formulating the best strategy. from what I have read, pretty soon after we entered the war the deal making began for who gets what afterward. it was only a matter of time before the japanese ran out of resources and the germans ran out of manpower.

The interesting thing is that both Germany and Japan, despite the constant bombing of their manufacturing centers, still were making considerable amounts of war equipment right up to their respective surrenders. Japan had nearly 9000 warplanes dispersed throughout Northern Honshu, Korea and Manchuria in preparation for Operations Olympic and Coronet. Its the lack of TRAINED manpower to operate that equipment and a lack of fuel that were the nails in their respective coffins.

maybe so but I once new a guy who was a kid in japan during the war. he said they were out of everything. the kids were sent out during school to scrounge for scrap metal and such things as pine cones which they could eat and also use for fuel.
12-12-2014 09:07 AM
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runamuck Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Pearl Harbor
(10-11-2014 05:32 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 11:01 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  That is an interesting article but it doesn't tell the whole story. Japan's Naval air service did not lack for planes, in fact most Japanese military forces never really lacked for equipment, but they completely lacked trained aircrews, experienced pilots, etc. Throughout the war the Japanese also stockpiled massive amounts of hardware on the home islands and did not ship it throughout the pacific, even though as late as Nov of 44' they maintained a nearly intact transit system throughout the empire.

The Germans and the Japanese would let their best pilots fly till they were killed. This is why Germany has fighter aces with hundreds of kills, but its a terrible waste of a good pilot. There comes a point where you are wasting their talents IN the cockpit. The US would yank experienced crews to pass that experience on to other crews. Had the Japanese Naval Air Arm and especially the Luftwaffe done this the war would have been much harder. Neither lacked airplanes even late in the war.

my dad was the back seat guy in an sbd during the war. he flew off a carrier in the pacific. he said the jap planes were plenty good but not armored as much as ours. we had self-sealing gas tanks and some steel plating around the pilots and some of their planes used smaller caliber armament so in a shoot out with them we had a better chance. dad was actually shot down twice and survived. his carrier was the chenango a converted tanker ship. since the ship had two hulls, he said it could take a lot of hits and not sink. it was shorter than a regular carrier and every landing was somewhat of a crash.
12-12-2014 09:17 AM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Pearl Harbor
(12-12-2014 09:17 AM)runamuck Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 05:32 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 11:01 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  That is an interesting article but it doesn't tell the whole story. Japan's Naval air service did not lack for planes, in fact most Japanese military forces never really lacked for equipment, but they completely lacked trained aircrews, experienced pilots, etc. Throughout the war the Japanese also stockpiled massive amounts of hardware on the home islands and did not ship it throughout the pacific, even though as late as Nov of 44' they maintained a nearly intact transit system throughout the empire.

The Germans and the Japanese would let their best pilots fly till they were killed. This is why Germany has fighter aces with hundreds of kills, but its a terrible waste of a good pilot. There comes a point where you are wasting their talents IN the cockpit. The US would yank experienced crews to pass that experience on to other crews. Had the Japanese Naval Air Arm and especially the Luftwaffe done this the war would have been much harder. Neither lacked airplanes even late in the war.

my dad was the back seat guy in an sbd during the war. he flew off a carrier in the pacific. he said the jap planes were plenty good but not armored as much as ours. we had self-sealing gas tanks and some steel plating around the pilots and some of their planes used smaller caliber armament so in a shoot out with them we had a better chance. dad was actually shot down twice and survived. his carrier was the chenango a converted tanker ship. since the ship had two hulls, he said it could take a lot of hits and not sink. it was shorter than a regular carrier and every landing was somewhat of a crash.

Specifically in the case of the A6M Zero, but also most Japanese planes, the idea was to make them as light as possible to improve their range and maneuverability. The light guns also go along with that theory. It worked out great early on for them as the F4F Wildcat had less range and less maneuverability; but once the F6F Hellcat showed up the Zero's lack of firepower and protection became glaring. Even with later Japanese plane designs; like the Kawanishi N1K George, Ki-100, Ki-61 Hien, Nakajima Ki-84 Frank and Mitsubishi J2M Jack; they still favored lighter construction over pilot protection.
(This post was last modified: 12-12-2014 10:15 AM by 49RFootballNow.)
12-12-2014 10:15 AM
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