And that is why Miami is not a serious candidate for the Big Ten.

(10-01-2014 08:22 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 05:58 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 10:20 AM)Piratelife4me Wrote:  2014 P5 Attendance

Biggest winner so far Maryland 25% increase
UCLA, A&M, Tenn, LSU, USC, Cuse, Colorado all see big jumps

Biggest declines include
UVA, Pitt, Miami, Cal, Kansas and more

Yet another misleading headline about attendance. The headline says "College football attendance down 1 percent in 2014," but if you do the math that they provide for you you find that P5 attendance is up 0.12%.

The average per game for all FBS programs very well might be down, but that's because there's 3 new FBS teams this year - App State, GA Southern, and ODU. Even if those 3 averaged 25,000 (which they don't), that would be enough to pull the entire NCAA average per game down by about 1%.

*math: 45,192 (last year's average) *128 = 5,784,576
5,784,576 + 25,000*3 = 5,859,576
5,859,576 / 131 = 44,730, which is 1.02% lower than 45,192

And the number of schools has gone from 119 in 2008 to 128 now. And they have added 21 schools since the last time a school dropped (Pacific in 1995).

And expansion was a negative for every conference in average attendance. Even the SEC, adding Missouri and Texas A&M, lowered their average attendance.

Not for long Bullet. A&M's expansion with sell outs will more than compensate for the additions at Missouri with sell outs there as well. As long as combined they average more than 75,000 and they will (closer to 85,000 combined) then they too will be a plus.

(10-01-2014 10:20 AM)Piratelife4me Wrote:  2014 P5 Attendance

Biggest winner so far Maryland 25% increase
UCLA, A&M, Tenn, LSU, USC, Cuse, Colorado all see big jumps

Biggest declines include
UVA, Pitt, Miami, Cal, Kansas and more

I don't know about other schools, but at Rutgers the number to look at would be ticket revenue, not tickets sold.

RU previously "sold" a decent amount of tickets, but for a few of the unattractive games each year that included a lot of reduced price tickets and giveaways.

Entering the B1G, the system ticket base has expanded quite a bit (over 15% increase)meaning they are getting full price for even those bad games. They also increased the seat fees that people have to pay to sit in certain sections.

RU also instituted mini plans and dynamic pricing for the PSU, Michigan type games. That means that a lot of single game tickets are selling for MORE than the season ticket price.

Attendance numbers will only go up by a small percentage at RU this year, but attendance revenue is skyrocketing.

(10-01-2014 05:35 PM)ken d Wrote:  A sample size of two doesn't usually have much statistical significance.

Shhhh, don't say that!

Yeah, Maryland jumped this year. It plummeted last year. Where it's at now to two years ago? Three years ago? It's not that significant.

That isn't to downplay the positives, though. It's hard to push tickets and get excited when the other teams don't show up themselves. Looking at some of the gates they've had from certain historic low performers...like BC. UMD will easily get more butts in the seats for schools like Indiana, Minnesota, Purdue, and Northwestern...and those guys are hundreds of miles away, rather than a shot down 95. Those games will enhance the overall experience there, and maybe students will start caring again, as well as alums and other fans.

But a big +1 to the poster who mentioned the extortion of ticket prices and parking. The overall product and experience has not improved.

(10-02-2014 07:55 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 05:35 PM)ken d Wrote:  A sample size of two doesn't usually have much statistical significance.

Shhhh, don't say that!

Yeah, Maryland jumped this year. It plummeted last year. Where it's at now to two years ago? Three years ago? It's not that significant.

That isn't to downplay the positives, though. It's hard to push tickets and get excited when the other teams don't show up themselves. Looking at some of the gates they've had from certain historic low performers...like BC. UMD will easily get more butts in the seats for schools like Indiana, Minnesota, Purdue, and Northwestern...and those guys are hundreds of miles away, rather than a shot down 95. Those games will enhance the overall experience there, and maybe students will start caring again, as well as alums and other fans.

But a big +1 to the poster who mentioned the extortion of ticket prices and parking. The overall product and experience has not improved.

Those schools will rarely be coming to Byrd Stadium though. The B1G is now big enough where you aren't going to play teams in the other side of the conference very often.

(10-02-2014 09:19 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 07:55 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 05:35 PM)ken d Wrote:  A sample size of two doesn't usually have much statistical significance.

Shhhh, don't say that!

Yeah, Maryland jumped this year. It plummeted last year. Where it's at now to two years ago? Three years ago? It's not that significant.

That isn't to downplay the positives, though. It's hard to push tickets and get excited when the other teams don't show up themselves. Looking at some of the gates they've had from certain historic low performers...like BC. UMD will easily get more butts in the seats for schools like Indiana, Minnesota, Purdue, and Northwestern...and those guys are hundreds of miles away, rather than a shot down 95. Those games will enhance the overall experience there, and maybe students will start caring again, as well as alums and other fans.

But a big +1 to the poster who mentioned the extortion of ticket prices and parking. The overall product and experience has not improved.

Those schools will rarely be coming to Byrd Stadium though. The B1G is now big enough where you aren't going to play teams in the other side of the conference very often.

I think there are some concerns within the conference among certain members where they want to play the original members as often as possible. The conference ripped OSU and Michigan right off the western half's schedule, and I question how long it really lasts. I don't think it's a bad thing, personally, if the conference constantly shuffles itself into divisions, as long as certain cores stay close to each other. That isn't pod-speak, either, but just keeping certain rivalries together as much as possible.

Until the shift happens though, Maryland will be seeing Indiana quite a bit. By the looks of how that PSU-IU game in Landover went some years back, UMD should be fine. Apparently, there are a lot of IU alums in the Beltway.

What I find interesting looking at these attendance numbers is the median school (the 32nd) is North Carolina at 54,500 but the Top 10 starts at 91,341 with Nebraska.

If you take the Top 10 draws out of the occassion the median drops to only 52,357 with Louisville with the Top 10 of that group starting at 74,400 with Michigan State. What this says is the very biggest draws in college football are off the charts compared with the rank and file power school.

Take the Top 16 out and the median school is Georgia Tech with 49,288 with the Top 10 starting at 61,983 with Virginia Tech and the Bottom 10 starts with Illinois at 38,605.

The Bottom 8 public schools in drawing are all located in small markets.

Indiana 41,160
Oregon St. 40,825
Colorado 39,013
Illinois 38,605
Virginia 36,906
Kansas 36,100
Purdue 35,370
Washington St. 31,913

(10-02-2014 12:49 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The Bottom 8 public schools in drawing are all located in small markets.

Indiana 41,160
Oregon St. 40,825
Colorado 39,013
Illinois 38,605
Virginia 36,906
Kansas 36,100
Purdue 35,370
Washington St. 31,913

Denver's not even an hour away from Boulder. KC's less than an hour from Lawrence. Purdue's about an hour from Indianapolis. Virginia's one of the fastest growing states, and Charlottesville is just out beyond the edge of that "Beltway creep."

I don't think there's any correlation. Even if the assertion were true, you still have places in the middle of nowhere, like PSU, who sit at the top of the list. Other programs like Clemson, VT, Mississippi State, Arkansas, KSU, etc...they aren't really nearby anything major, either, and do alright. Not to mention, Virginia's a public ivy and isn't one necessarily to cater to football fans. Illinois and Colorado are pretty solid institutions who don't necessarily go rabid over football, although both have done well when competitive (seems like forever ago).

(10-01-2014 04:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 12:43 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Maryland's two home games played so far were against teams with a large concentration of DC alumni (JMU, WVU). Those two games last year in Byrd at this time were against FIU and ODU.

The misleading and funny part of the OP's thread title is that Maryland's 46,000 actually drags down the Big 10's average attendance numbers. It is only a boost for Maryland whose attendance figures will damage the Big 10's average, and significantly damage them at that.

I'm still trying to figure out how B1G membership benefits Maryland's attendance against JMU and WVU.

(10-02-2014 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 04:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 12:43 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Maryland's two home games played so far were against teams with a large concentration of DC alumni (JMU, WVU). Those two games last year in Byrd at this time were against FIU and ODU.

The misleading and funny part of the OP's thread title is that Maryland's 46,000 actually drags down the Big 10's average attendance numbers. It is only a boost for Maryland whose attendance figures will damage the Big 10's average, and significantly damage them at that.

I'm still trying to figure out how B1G membership benefits Maryland's attendance against JMU and WVU.

+1. Good call. Mass hysteria about the upcoming move

(10-02-2014 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 04:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 12:43 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Maryland's two home games played so far were against teams with a large concentration of DC alumni (JMU, WVU). Those two games last year in Byrd at this time were against FIU and ODU.

The misleading and funny part of the OP's thread title is that Maryland's 46,000 actually drags down the Big 10's average attendance numbers. It is only a boost for Maryland whose attendance figures will damage the Big 10's average, and significantly damage them at that.

I'm still trying to figure out how B1G membership benefits Maryland's attendance against JMU and WVU.

Any school's attendance benefits from having WVU on the schedule. Mountaineer fans travel very well. Besides, Maryland is a nice drive from Morgantown and WVU has a large alumni base in the area.

JMU isn't that far away either. But I have no idea how their fans travel. Attendance, however, is averaged and cumulative.

(10-02-2014 01:46 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 04:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 12:43 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Maryland's two home games played so far were against teams with a large concentration of DC alumni (JMU, WVU). Those two games last year in Byrd at this time were against FIU and ODU.

The misleading and funny part of the OP's thread title is that Maryland's 46,000 actually drags down the Big 10's average attendance numbers. It is only a boost for Maryland whose attendance figures will damage the Big 10's average, and significantly damage them at that.

I'm still trying to figure out how B1G membership benefits Maryland's attendance against JMU and WVU.

Any school's attendance benefits from having WVU on the schedule. Mountaineer fans travel very well. Besides, Maryland is a nice drive from Morgantown and WVU has a large alumni base in the area.

JMU isn't that far away either. But I have no idea how their fans travel. Attendance, however, is averaged and cumulative.

Very well, considering we're an FCS team. Also, most our grads live between Richmond and DC, so usually we get a good chunk to games that are local. We brought around 15k or so to that JMU vs. WVU game at Fed Ex Field two years ago. I was at both this years JMU at UMD as well as the 2009 one and I'd say we probably brought about 7-8k to both.

Maryland playing local(ish) schools with a lot of alums in the DC area absolutely affects attendance. If UMD does a home game against VT again, you better believe they'll bring the house.

UMD got a phenomenal home schedule for them this year, so I assume attendance will be high all season. Not every season will be like that though.

(10-02-2014 11:16 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 09:19 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 07:55 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 05:35 PM)ken d Wrote:  A sample size of two doesn't usually have much statistical significance.

Shhhh, don't say that!

Yeah, Maryland jumped this year. It plummeted last year. Where it's at now to two years ago? Three years ago? It's not that significant.

That isn't to downplay the positives, though. It's hard to push tickets and get excited when the other teams don't show up themselves. Looking at some of the gates they've had from certain historic low performers...like BC. UMD will easily get more butts in the seats for schools like Indiana, Minnesota, Purdue, and Northwestern...and those guys are hundreds of miles away, rather than a shot down 95. Those games will enhance the overall experience there, and maybe students will start caring again, as well as alums and other fans.

But a big +1 to the poster who mentioned the extortion of ticket prices and parking. The overall product and experience has not improved.

Those schools will rarely be coming to Byrd Stadium though. The B1G is now big enough where you aren't going to play teams in the other side of the conference very often.

I think there are some concerns within the conference among certain members where they want to play the original members as often as possible. The conference ripped OSU and Michigan right off the western half's schedule, and I question how long it really lasts. I don't think it's a bad thing, personally, if the conference constantly shuffles itself into divisions, as long as certain cores stay close to each other. That isn't pod-speak, either, but just keeping certain rivalries together as much as possible.

Until the shift happens though, Maryland will be seeing Indiana quite a bit. By the looks of how that PSU-IU game in Landover went some years back, UMD should be fine. Apparently, there are a lot of IU alums in the Beltway.

There are a lot of alums from pretty much every B1G school in the DC area. The population exploded in the region from 1970 to now. People literally came from all over the country for the government jobs, govt. contracting jobs and auxillary jobs that come with being in a populous area. I bet you can find at least 5k alums that currently resided in the DMV from every school in the B1G with the exception of Northwestern.

(10-02-2014 02:32 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  UMD got a phenomenal home schedule for them this year, so I assume attendance will be high all season. Not every season will be like that though.

They'll have Michigan, Penn State, and Wisconsin at home next year. Can't make attendance excuses with those teams on the home schedule.

(10-02-2014 01:27 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 12:49 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The Bottom 8 public schools in drawing are all located in small markets.

Indiana 41,160
Oregon St. 40,825
Colorado 39,013
Illinois 38,605
Virginia 36,906
Kansas 36,100
Purdue 35,370
Washington St. 31,913

Denver's not even an hour away from Boulder. KC's less than an hour from Lawrence. Purdue's about an hour from Indianapolis. Virginia's one of the fastest growing states, and Charlottesville is just out beyond the edge of that "Beltway creep."

Denver and KC have NFL so those markets are covered by pro teams. Same with Indy and DC.

When a P5 is in a small market and NOT a football school that is where it a perfect storm for weak attendance.

(10-02-2014 01:29 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 04:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 12:43 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Maryland's two home games played so far were against teams with a large concentration of DC alumni (JMU, WVU). Those two games last year in Byrd at this time were against FIU and ODU.

The misleading and funny part of the OP's thread title is that Maryland's 46,000 actually drags down the Big 10's average attendance numbers. It is only a boost for Maryland whose attendance figures will damage the Big 10's average, and significantly damage them at that.

I'm still trying to figure out how B1G membership benefits Maryland's attendance against JMU and WVU.

Scratch a Marylander and you'll find a West Virginian.

(10-01-2014 04:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 12:43 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Maryland's two home games played so far were against teams with a large concentration of DC alumni (JMU, WVU). Those two games last year in Byrd at this time were against FIU and ODU.

The misleading and funny part of the OP's thread title is that Maryland's 46,000 actually drags down the Big 10's average attendance numbers. It is only a boost for Maryland whose attendance figures will damage the Big 10's average, and significantly damage them at that.

All will be forgiven when the checks arrive in the mail.

(10-02-2014 02:39 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  I bet you can find at least 5k alums that currently resided in the DMV from every school in the B1G with the exception of Northwestern.

Maybe not NW undergrad, but there are sizable NW grad school alumni crowds in DC, particularly MBA and JD

(10-02-2014 02:39 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 11:16 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 09:19 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  

(10-02-2014 07:55 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(10-01-2014 05:35 PM)ken d Wrote:  A sample size of two doesn't usually have much statistical significance.

Shhhh, don't say that!

Yeah, Maryland jumped this year. It plummeted last year. Where it's at now to two years ago? Three years ago? It's not that significant.

That isn't to downplay the positives, though. It's hard to push tickets and get excited when the other teams don't show up themselves. Looking at some of the gates they've had from certain historic low performers...like BC. UMD will easily get more butts in the seats for schools like Indiana, Minnesota, Purdue, and Northwestern...and those guys are hundreds of miles away, rather than a shot down 95. Those games will enhance the overall experience there, and maybe students will start caring again, as well as alums and other fans.

But a big +1 to the poster who mentioned the extortion of ticket prices and parking. The overall product and experience has not improved.

Those schools will rarely be coming to Byrd Stadium though. The B1G is now big enough where you aren't going to play teams in the other side of the conference very often.

I think there are some concerns within the conference among certain members where they want to play the original members as often as possible. The conference ripped OSU and Michigan right off the western half's schedule, and I question how long it really lasts. I don't think it's a bad thing, personally, if the conference constantly shuffles itself into divisions, as long as certain cores stay close to each other. That isn't pod-speak, either, but just keeping certain rivalries together as much as possible.

Until the shift happens though, Maryland will be seeing Indiana quite a bit. By the looks of how that PSU-IU game in Landover went some years back, UMD should be fine. Apparently, there are a lot of IU alums in the Beltway.

There are a lot of alums from pretty much every B1G school in the DC area. The population exploded in the region from 1970 to now. People literally came from all over the country for the government jobs, govt. contracting jobs and auxillary jobs that come with being in a populous area. I bet you can find at least 5k alums that currently resided in the DMV from every school in the B1G with the exception of Northwestern.

Maryland isn't by any means DC's college like Ohio St is for Columbus or Wisconsin is for Madison.

UMD is close to DC but its in Maryland and is viewed as a Maryland school so people in Virginia and DC don't feel compelled to support it at all. The Maryland Suburbs of DC are not very community based. The East suburbs are suburban wastelands known for their crime and the West suburubs are ultra wealthy. UMD is in the East suburbs at the beginning of the transitional zone to the more affluent area. College Park is not any kind of social hub and nobody from DC goes up there to party or for any reason unless they are taking classes.

NFL has a two franchises in Maryland, the Redskins in the East Maryland Suburbs about 10 miles from College Park and the Ravens 25 miles from College Park in downtown Baltimore. Baltimore only has NFL and MLB and is very loyal and proud about its pro teams. Maryland alums do seem to be pretty loyal to support their school but instead of catching the team at the stadium they watch at the sports bars. They are lazy like pro fans when it comes to having to be at the stadium.

Virginia suburbs of DC are consistently upper middle class East to West with a couple highly affluent pockets sprinkled around business centers. Virginia is a public university state where there is little interest in the private schools with so many good publics. Alumni of VT, UVA and JMU caravan from the DMV hours back to college for home football games. Virginia has no professional sports aside from NASCAR in the southern part of the state.

Then in DC proper the main colleges are Georgetown and George Washington. The interest is not athletics with those schools its in academics. The talk all over town is about their law schools, MBA or international relations programs. You get a sense that either they've been in one of those professional programs at those schools, the are currently in one of those professional programs or they would like to be in one of them. Its not a A list minds going into those programs but more a bunch of over achievers looking for status.

We talked about it here before the cultural difference between New Jersey, NYC and Connecticut while are part of the same metro. The same applies for Virginia, DC and Maryland. They are close together, even adjacent but completely different mindsets.