Quote:When I was at Tulane University, girls were warned about the “bad” fraternities: the ones that spiked the punch at parties with Everclear and maybe drugs, the kind of frats where girls got hurt. During my first week of class 18 years ago, rumours circulated about a girl on my floor who had been sexually assaulted by multiple men at a frat party. These issues were always discussed with a certain nonchalance – as if having at least one rapist around was an inevitable part of fraternity life.

Not much has changed.

University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee police are currently investigating a fraternity after several women were found labeled with red and black X’s on their hands after they had to be hospitalized with memory lapses from intoxication at a fraternity party. Last year, three sexual assaults were reported at one Texas fraternity – within just one month. At Georgia Tech, a frat brother sent around an email guide called “Luring your rapebait”. Wesleyan had a frat that was nicknamed the “Rape Factory”. In 2010, fraternity brothers at Yale University marched through campus yelling, “No means yes, yes means anal.”

These are not anomalies or bad apples: numerous studies have found that men who join fraternities are three times more likely to rape, that women in sororities are 74% more likely to experience rape than other college women, and that one in five women will be sexually assaulted in four years away at school. So it seems only natural to ask: With all of the current efforts, from the White House to college towns, to curb campus sexual assault – using “yes means yes” as a standard for consent, holding administrators accountable, touting bystander intervention – why haven’t we addressed perhaps the most obvious solution?

It’s time to talk about banning fraternities.

When sociology professors Elizabeth Armstrong and Laura Hamilton conducted an intensive, landmark five-year study on college students – by living amongst, following around and interviewing students in one dorm at an anonymous Midwestern public university – they reported that two women living on their floor were sexually assaulted at fraternity parties within the first few weeks of the semester.

Armstrong, who turned the results of the study into a well-received bestseller about college inequality and a paper on sexual assault, tells me that while anti-sexual violence programs are doing all the right things, they may not be doing enough.

“I was just at University of Massachusetts and at Wesleyan, and they were talking about bystander intervention programs and that’s great – people should try to engage,” she said. “But what it leaves off the table are the organizations that put people at risk on campus.”

Armstrong reminded me of what I hear on campus visits myself – that fraternities are hotbeds for all sorts of risk beyond sexual assault: there’s also alcoholism, alcohol poisoning, people falling out of windows and dangerous hazing incidents. She insists that frats “vary tremendously” in terms of how sexually dangerous they are – traditionally African American frats, gender-inclusive frats and multicultural frats are not as threatening as those populated by mostly-white, economically-entitled students, for example – but when you look at the overall risk fraternities create for students on campus, “reforming or preserving these organizations doesn’t make a lot of sense,” Armstrong said.

And while probably not all fraternities are hunting grounds for rapists and
not all men who join frats (or varsity sports teams) are predators, when so much sexual violence is centered around one area of campus life, something has to be done.

For Wesleyan – home of the “rape factory” frat – school administrators decided that means mandating that women be admitted to fraternities. The school announced this week that all frats must go co-ed within the next three years. While I applaud what seems a theoretical move towards equality, I don’t much like the idea of women as a “civilizing” force for men’s bad behavior.

Why try to fix something that’s irrevocably broken? Better, instead, that we take an honest look at the statistics and stories coming out of colleges and act accordingly. I realize banning frats is likely a pipe dream – the organizations are deeply embedded in college culture, they generate student programming and are supported by powerful alumni. But if we’re ready to take on college administrators, sue under Title IX, or carry mattresses on our back in protest, why not this? Why not now?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...-ban-frats

No need to ban the fraternities, just prosecute the criminals.

Frats are an anachronism, but to each his own.

BTW, women rape as much as men.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/20.../16007089/

Frats and sororities are for kids that obsess about their social status and need to pay to make friends imho.

(09-25-2014 09:57 AM)Doctor Krieger Wrote:  Frats and sororities are for kids that obsess about their social status and need to pay to make friends imho.

Nah, but that's the stereotype. We all know stereotypes are all true. Those orgs have their place. Heck, I was in one but it was a small school so maybe that's differnet than a large state university, etc.

It's a serious problem. The perpetrators need to be punished but overall the Greek system can be highly beneficial for young men and women.

It is a serious problem though that has come close to home many times. The vast majority of girls I dated in school had all at some point been assaulted in some way shape or form. If say that in reality the number is much higher than 1-5.

However, it's a cultural issue that is simply magnified in the Greek system. Today's hypersexual culture encourages behavior that inexorably leads to this. The majority of the young women I'm talked about experienced everything from unwanted touching and groping to outright sexual assault with weapons that left scars.

I blame the hypersexual party culture. That's hardly unique to the Greek system.

Typed on iPhone so my apologies for any typos etc.

(09-25-2014 09:58 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-25-2014 09:57 AM)Doctor Krieger Wrote:  Frats and sororities are for kids that obsess about their social status and need to pay to make friends imho.

Nah, but that's the stereotype. We all know stereotypes are all true. Those orgs have their place. Heck, I was in one but it was a small school so maybe that's differnet than a large state university, etc.

Well @ UW, those stereotypes held true. Out of all the frat/sorority members I knew/met in school, I can only say I liked one or two of them.

(09-25-2014 09:57 AM)Doctor Krieger Wrote:  Frats and sororities are for kids that obsess about their social status and need to pay to make friends imho.

GDI?

Frats are frats. I will say the obvious...if you are a girl and go to party at an unfamiliar location and have no idea what you are drinking, then you are taking a chance. I do not support rape or date rape. However, if you have heard the rumors about frat A, then don't go to their parties. Multi-gender and multicultural frats aren't really frats...they are more like clubs, so their idea of a "party" usually involves wine, cheese, and blah music. As to Black and Hispanic frats, most of these parties are off campus and have their own risks too (including violence from non-students at these parties). The HONEST solution is not to ban frats or to mandate female participation, but to encourage responsibility amongst the girls that go to these parties. If you have heard the rumors, they are probably true. If enough girls stop going to frat A's parties and it becomes a sausage-feast, the brothers of that frat will start to be cognizant of the type of members they accept.

Because banning something totally lead to people stopping the actions.

Just like banning guns stop gun homicides

or

Banning drugs stops people from doing drugs.

Just prosecute the criminals to the fullest extent of the law.

(09-25-2014 10:17 AM)pharaoh0 Wrote:  Frats are frats. I will say the obvious...if you are a girl and go to party at an unfamiliar location and have no idea what you are drinking, then you are taking a chance. I do not support rape or date rape. However, if you have heard the rumors about frat A, then don't go to their parties. Multi-gender and multicultural frats aren't really frats...they are more like clubs, so their idea of a "party" usually involves wine, cheese, and blah music. As to Black and Hispanic frats, most of these parties are off campus and have their own risks too (including violence from non-students at these parties). The HONEST solution is not to ban frats or to mandate female participation, but to encourage responsibility amongst the girls that go to these parties. If you have heard the rumors, they are probably true. If enough girls stop going to frat A's parties and it becomes a sausage-feast, the brothers of that frat will start to be cognizant of the type of members they accept.

Exactly...the elephant in the room here is that many college age girls do dig these guys. It's not like the brothers of KA are going around campus and kidnapping girls to come to these parties..girls are willingly going there and for the most part willingly dropping their panties for them.

If you don't like frat parties or don't want to take the "risk" of going to one of these frat houses, just don't go.

(09-25-2014 10:10 AM)Doctor Krieger Wrote:  

(09-25-2014 09:58 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-25-2014 09:57 AM)Doctor Krieger Wrote:  Frats and sororities are for kids that obsess about their social status and need to pay to make friends imho.

Nah, but that's the stereotype. We all know stereotypes are all true. Those orgs have their place. Heck, I was in one but it was a small school so maybe that's differnet than a large state university, etc.

Well @ UW, those stereotypes held true. Out of all the frat/sorority members I knew/met in school, I can only say I liked one or two of them.

It's probably way different at a large school than a small school. Anyway, I was in one while I was in college and this was never an issue. While I was at UW I didn't get a chance to meet any of my fraternity brothers so no idea what they are like.

(09-25-2014 10:12 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(09-25-2014 09:57 AM)Doctor Krieger Wrote:  Frats and sororities are for kids that obsess about their social status and need to pay to make friends imho.

GDI?

?

(09-25-2014 10:23 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-25-2014 10:10 AM)Doctor Krieger Wrote:  

(09-25-2014 09:58 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-25-2014 09:57 AM)Doctor Krieger Wrote:  Frats and sororities are for kids that obsess about their social status and need to pay to make friends imho.

Nah, but that's the stereotype. We all know stereotypes are all true. Those orgs have their place. Heck, I was in one but it was a small school so maybe that's differnet than a large state university, etc.

Well @ UW, those stereotypes held true. Out of all the frat/sorority members I knew/met in school, I can only say I liked one or two of them.

It's probably way different at a large school than a small school. Anyway, I was in one while I was in college and this was never an issue. While I was at UW I didn't get a chance to meet any of my fraternity brothers so no idea what they are like.

I think it definitely is.

I wasn't in a frat, though I did go to a lot of frat parties. Other than underage binge drinking, there weren't any problems I knew of and in 4 years I never heard of a sexual assault, though I do remember there was a guy that physically beat his girlfriend and he was dealt with the old fashioned way. Regardless, they do have freedom of association and you can't break that because you think a crime might be committed. We had one frat that got banned for something unrelated and they simply moved off campus and continued to exist and throw parties just the same. I would imagine that is exactly what would happen if a university decided to ban all frats.

I was in a fraternity at ECU. We never had any problems like that in my fraternity, and there were only urban legends about other fraternities. To my knowledge, there was never an incident regarding sexual assault in my 7 years by a fraternity member (BA & MA) at ECU.

In my experience, we were gentlemen who knew how to have a good time. Women were attracted to us because we were the fun ones, generally presented ourselves well, and most fraternity men are naturally outgoing, hence why they were allowed into the fraternity.

Fraternity hate is nothing new. Jealousy is a beeotch. And for the old, tired assumption that I paid for my friends in college... *sigh*... the dues are to pay for the house, renting out bars for socials with sororities, putting on community service events, and financial obligations to our national headquarters. I imagine most guys who attended college paid for things while out with their friends... this is no different.

(09-25-2014 10:12 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(09-25-2014 09:57 AM)Doctor Krieger Wrote:  Frats and sororities are for kids that obsess about their social status and need to pay to make friends imho.

GDI?

We used to mess with my Fraternity's chapter at ECU all the time. Sneak in, steal their charter, etc all kinds of stupid things. It was fun at the time. Not even sure if that chapter is still around or not now though.

(09-25-2014 10:25 AM)Doctor Krieger Wrote:  

(09-25-2014 10:12 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(09-25-2014 09:57 AM)Doctor Krieger Wrote:  Frats and sororities are for kids that obsess about their social status and need to pay to make friends imho.

GDI?

?

Ok. Definitely GDI. Explains that comment.

(09-25-2014 10:28 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I was in a fraternity at ECU. We never had any problems like that in my fraternity, and there were only urban legends about other fraternities. To my knowledge, there was never an incident regarding sexual assault in my 7 years by a fraternity member (BA & MA) at ECU.

In my experience, we were gentlemen who knew how to have a good time. Women were attracted to us because we were the fun ones, generally presented ourselves well, and most fraternity men are naturally outgoing, hence why they were allowed into the fraternity.

Fraternity hate is nothing new. Jealousy is a beeotch. And for the old, tired assumption that I paid for my friends in college... *sigh*... the dues are to pay for the house, renting out bars for socials with sororities, putting on community service events, and financial obligations to our national headquarters. I imagine most guys who attended college paid for things while out with their friends... this is no different.

Why would anybody be jealous of a bunch of douche canoes?

I had perfect college experience and wasn't in a frat. I had an awesome time much like you described above, but had it without having to shell out the amount of money frat guys here had to do. I didn't need the comradery and hoity-toity social status that people relish in frats/sororities. I wouldn't change my 4 years for anything.

I'm not sure if it's just different up here at a huge university like UW, but most frat/sorority members were affluent kids from Chicago, LA and the east coast. Kids who were incredibly entitled and where extremely douchey imo. Like VA noted, I'm sure it's different at smaller schools and in different parts of the country.

(09-25-2014 10:38 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(09-25-2014 10:25 AM)Doctor Krieger Wrote:  

(09-25-2014 10:12 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(09-25-2014 09:57 AM)Doctor Krieger Wrote:  Frats and sororities are for kids that obsess about their social status and need to pay to make friends imho.

GDI?

?

Ok. Definitely GDI. Explains that comment.

Just looked it up....definitely an acronym created by a frat bro.