I know the Nth thread discussing the same topic, the only thing changes from coach to coach are the details.

Looking back:

Genyk like a smaller, quicker offense with small offensive linemen with a QB with mobility, etc.

English like a more traditional pro offense with large offensive linemen and a more NFL type QB.

CC likes a smaller, quicker offense with small offensive linemen with a QB with mobility, etc.

What I'm getting at is that we are flip flopping every say 4 or 5 years and trying to fit players into a scheme they were not recruited.

Sometimes this pendulum type change - back and forth - isn't a good thing.

I'm going to echo what '79 has suggested many times: Maybe if Genyk had been given the resources (e.g., IPF) that his successor was, maybe things would be further along.

I just hope that Roback and our OL don't become casualties of all of this change on offense.

There is more talent on this team then results shown to date.

We need to schedule responsibly.

According to these data, G5 schools and independents are a combined 1 - 29 vs. Top 25 teams this season. Playing MSU, OSU, WI, etc. is nice for the balance sheet but terrible for the teams who get beat badly. BG also got clobbered one week after beating Indiana. The high of beating Indiana in a thriller and then the low of getting clobbered seven days later. Kent knows the pain we feel when they got blown out terribly at OSU a week ago.

I prefer one money game / season and then the 2-year home and homes with ODU, Wyoming, etc type schools and one FCS home opener.

We got almost 1.5M for playing Florida and MSU, but it killed our season very early.

An ideal schedule would be say open with FCS at home, away at Wyoming, home vs. ODU and away at Money Game (hopefully not top 25).

http://csnbbs.com/thread-704447.html

We have a whole long thread on facilities but we need to shoot for having 'mid-MAC' quality facilities.

Rank the stadium 1 - 12 and look at those stadiums which are at the median.

We don't need (and can't afford) to be in the top quartile, but we don't want to be in the bottom quartile, either.

Our stadium/facilities don't need to be a big + but it can't be a big - either.

(09-21-2014 06:07 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I know the Nth thread discussing the same topic, the only thing changes from coach to coach are the details.

Looking back:

Genyk like a smaller, quicker offense with small offensive linemen with a QB with mobility, etc.

English like a more traditional pro offense with large offensive linemen and a more NFL type QB.

CC likes a smaller, quicker offense with small offensive linemen with a QB with mobility, etc.

What I'm getting at is that we are flip flopping every say 4 or 5 years and trying to fit players into a scheme they were not recruited.

Sometimes this pendulum type change - back and forth - isn't a good thing.

I'm going to echo what '79 has suggested many times: Maybe if Genyk had been given the resources (e.g., IPF) that his successor was, maybe things would be further along.

I just hope that Roback and our OL don't become casualties of all of this change on offense.

There is more talent on this team then results shown to date.

I disagree. What are you talking about? Our offensive line averages 6'6" and over 300 lbs. They are big and sloooooooow

(09-21-2014 07:16 AM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 06:07 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I know the Nth thread discussing the same topic, the only thing changes from coach to coach are the details.

Looking back:

Genyk like a smaller, quicker offense with small offensive linemen with a QB with mobility, etc.

English like a more traditional pro offense with large offensive linemen and a more NFL type QB.

CC likes a smaller, quicker offense with small offensive linemen with a QB with mobility, etc.

What I'm getting at is that we are flip flopping every say 4 or 5 years and trying to fit players into a scheme they were not recruited.

Sometimes this pendulum type change - back and forth - isn't a good thing.

I'm going to echo what '79 has suggested many times: Maybe if Genyk had been given the resources (e.g., IPF) that his successor was, maybe things would be further along.

I just hope that Roback and our OL don't become casualties of all of this change on offense.

There is more talent on this team then results shown to date.

I disagree. What are you talking about? Our offensive line averages 6'6" and over 300 lbs. They are big and sloooooooow

That IS my point. CC wouldn't recruit the guys that he inherited from English.

These big huge guys are holdovers from English now being forced to adapt to an offense which they were not recruited for...

Our coaches are playing players they inherited from their predecessor and quite frankly aren't good fits.

The notion that English made players adapt to his system (even though they weren't designed to) but CC, being a wise, flexible coach, will adapt his offense to his existing players is a little bit of hooey.

Changing coaches (and schemes) every four or five years causes big, big problems.

I agree with Steve on his points, O lineman in a passing offense tend to be smaller but quicker. I am impressed with what I see in Harris and Beck so far as true frosh. And yes the team does seem better conditioned. Think of this season as one extended fall practice trying to learn the system seeing which players will fit and which ones don't. I honestly see CC and staff signing 25 in the 2015 class.

Dear Friends,
Many of you (in my opinion) seem to think players can't adapt to different systems, or different plays, or whatever. I think that is nonsense. Saying things like Coach Genyk would have been a winner if he only had a indoor practice facility, or our offensive linemen were not recruited to pass block or block sweeps, or our receivers aren't the right kind of recruits.
Give me a break. From Genyk to English they each had five years to develop a program, and didn't get it done. Now everyone except a few are ready to fire Coach Creighton after a quarter of one season. The hardest thing to do right now, is to keep this team fighting for another win or more. I see some improvement with every game regardless of the score.

(09-21-2014 02:15 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Friends,
Many of you (in my opinion) seem to think players can't adapt to different systems, or different plays, or whatever. I think that is nonsense. Saying things like Coach Genyk would have been a winner if he only had a indoor practice facility, or our offensive linemen were not recruited to pass block or block sweeps, or our receivers aren't the right kind of recruits.
Give me a break. From Genyk to English they each had five years to develop a program, and didn't get it done. Now everyone except a few are ready to fire Coach Creighton after a quarter of one season. The hardest thing to do right now, is to keep this team fighting for another win or more. I see some improvement with every game regardless of the score.

Ken, I think you misconstrued everything I said.

As far as talent, QBs are usually considered to be pro-style and dual threat (in the NFL Matthew Stafford is a pro-style and Robert Griffin, III is a dual threat).

Bell is a dual threat and Roback is a pro-style (even though he can run some).

Offensive linemen can be say 275+ or 300+ depending on the type of offense.

We have offensive linemen pushing 350 which is not ideal for certain offenses. (note: They need to get under 325 regardless of the type of offense played.)

As far as WRs, some WRs are the small 'smurf' type WRs who are deployed in wide open offenses where they catch but don't do much blocking. Other offenses uses bigger WRs who are expected to do a lot of downfield blocking.

I do believe, in hindsight, that if EMU had put more resources into the program when Genyk was here he might have been successful (he had minimal amount of $ for asst coaches, etc.). I agree with '79 that Genyk got a lot out of what he had to work with. I also think he was a very creative offensive coach (as was Rick Rasnick).

This may sound silly or whatever, but I miss winning or losing 49 - 45 type games. That is known as: MACtion. Scores which look like basketball games.

We might beat some team 17 - 14 this year but I doubt it will be a super exciting game.

Dear steve,
I did not misconstrue what you said. I totally disagree with it. If we are going to go back in the recent past and blame not the coach, but blame the facilities, money, and yes not the right recruits for that coach's system, then what is the reason for Woodruff's failure?
It couldn't be that he recruited seven players from one school? No, it had to be the color of the stands that blinded him.
Look I'll be the first to admit that indoor practice facilities might help, and that some money might help, but it is up to the Head Coach to get it done. I stick with my point that players can adapt. It may take time, but if they believe in the system, they will make the changes that are necessary.

Hate to say it but if by the end of Creighton's tenure this team isn't headed in the right direction I see the conversation seriously trending back to dropping down a level or eliminating football.

Not something we want to hear but unfortunately we're probably closest to that reality as we've ever been.

Dear EagleHawk,
We were there before in the early eighties when we had the longest losing streak in college football. Somewhat like Miami of Ohio is right now. So we can come back. It's not over yet, and I don't believe it will ever.

(09-22-2014 08:59 AM)EagleHawk Wrote:  Hate to say it but if by the end of Creighton's tenure this team isn't headed in the right direction I see the conversation seriously trending back to dropping down a level or eliminating football.

Not something we want to hear but unfortunately we're probably closest to that reality as we've ever been.

This is a tough, tough question.

Frustration is high for obvious reasons, 20 years of FB futility.

BUT, as painful as it is, dropping down (and NECESSARILY leaving the MAC would be a disaster for EMU AND bad for the MAC).

First the MAC, once UMass leaves, the MAC will be 12 football schools. They can NOT afford to go down to 11 for a host of reasons, e.g., championship game, scheduling, etc. I believe I was told by an broadcast professional (someone in the sports television business) that if a conference loses (or gains?) two or more members ESPN can reopen a contract. I believe that happened to C-USA which lost a lot of top teams.

Those MAC fans who want to toss EMU better be prepared to answer: "Replace with whom?" (e.g., IL State, S. IL, E. IL, Stony Brook, James Madison, Delaware, etc.).

For EMU, which conference:

We could ditch football and TRY to join the Horizon Conference IF (big IF) UDM and Oakland wouldn't block us. We would automatically lose about 2.5 - 3M a year from our football program.

We could join a FCS conference and lose about 1.5M a year off the top by losing our college football playoff and ESPN monies.

Could we play Missouri Valley FB and ??? for the rest of our sports (again maybe Horizon?). Ohio Valley? (we have NOTHING in common with them).

DROPPING OUT OF FBS FOOTBALL (AND, BY NECESSITY) THE MAC WOULD BE THE BIGGEST MISTAKE IN THE HISTORY OF EMU.


FCS football is a big money loser. It has most of the expenses of FBS football and doesn't get big bucks from ESPN monies, college football playoff monies, etc. AND guarantees to a FCS school are less than a FBS school. Florida would not pay Austin Peay 800K for a game.

Sometimes I feel we are like the Old Testament Jews during their 40 years of exile. It was painful. They died in the desert but finally got home.

This is something I"ve been saying, again I think Creighton will be given every chance to turn things around possibly another 5 years after this year. If not our choices are to drop a division FCS or eliminate the program. The problem is forgoing all that nice MAC TV revenue. The current set of regents I believe are on track with giving Creighton time but then a serious evaluation if they don't see improvement. Don't know what means in terms of a new stadium, improvements etc.

Sometimes I feel we are like the Old Testament Jews during their 40 years of exile. It was painful. They died in the desert but finally got home.

So where's our Moses to lead us out of the wilderness and into the promised land?

Winning EMU football would indeed be a miracle like parting the Red Sea.

Sorry Charles Heston wasn't a football coach, he was in great condition due to his rowing in Ben Hur though. The Romans had a great strength and conditioning program and great motivation in those galleys.

(09-22-2014 09:36 AM)emu79 Wrote:  This is something I"ve been saying, again I think Creighton will be given every chance to turn things around possibly another 5 years after this year. If not our choices are to drop a division FCS or eliminate the program. The problem is forgoing all that nice MAC TV revenue. The current set of regents I believe are on track with giving Creighton time but then a serious evaluation if they don't see improvement. Don't know what means in terms of a new stadium, improvements etc.

IF the regents make the wrong choice (assuming it comes to that) we could become another Wayne State.

That would be a disaster.

For those not really familiar with Wayne State, it is larger than EMU and has scores of doctoral programs, med school, law school, engineering, mortuary science, etc. etc.

I believe it is very similar to Temple, (except D-I athletics.)

What it lacks are:

1). D-I athletics 2) a beautiful campus (Sorry, but WSU's campus will never look any where near as nice as EMU's - which is very nice).

Everyone loves to talk about Grand Valley, but how many Grand Valleys are there?

Does anyone talk about Sag. Valley State, Ferris State, Ashland, MI Tech, etc. etc.

And carrying this to an extreme: California Tech is far superior to MSU in academics (also OSU, Alabama, Florida State, LSU, etc. etc.). Cal Tech is one of the top handful of schools in the country, like top five. Absolutely superior.

And if one wants to get into p*ssing contests, the folks at Cal Tech look down at Stanford, and that says a lot.

But where are the sports?????? How many folks outside of California and academia know of it????

Here is more on Cal Tech (from Wikipedia): (I'm quoting):

According to the U.S. News & World Report's Best Graduate Schools 2011 ranking, "California Institute of Technology headlines the new rankings, with top billing in three categories: chemistry, earth sciences and physics."[58]

Caltech is ranked 1st internationally since 2011 by the Times Higher Education World University Rankings.[52] Caltech was ranked as the best university in the world in two categories: Engineering & Technology and Physical Sciences.[53][54] It was also found to have the highest faculty citation rate in the world.[55]

**************

But they have D-III athletics and that be why you probably haven't heard of them...

Maybe a more relevant example is University at Buffalo.

They might be the best academic university in the MAC, but decades ago they gave up inter-collegiate football and then had to rebuild from scratch (and it was a painful process). Their football was terrible for a long time.

I believe Ohio de-emphasized college football 40 or 50 years ago and it took them decades to get out of that hole they dug for themselves.

Both UB and Ohio are very fine MAC academic schools which had a 'football problem' and both are over come it.

I bet both are giddy they made the right choice to build up their football programs.

As long as Susan Martin and Heather Lyke are here, we wil not drop down. Martin has made it clear, numerous times, she has every intention of keeping us in the FBS. Lyke is driven, and I'm sure has aspirations for an AD job with greater prestige and greater pay than EMU. The Board of Regents appears to support Martin's decision as well, especially with increasing the athletics budget this year and giving Lyke more autonomy in spending it.

(09-22-2014 10:56 AM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  As long as Susan Martin and Heather Lyke are here, we wil not drop down. Martin has made it clear, numerous times, she has every intention of keeping us in the FBS. Lyke is driven, and I'm sure has aspirations for an AD job with greater prestige and greater pay than EMU. The Board of Regents appears to support Martin's decision as well, especially with increasing the athletics budget this year and giving Lyke more autonomy in spending it.

Frank,

I could not agree with you more. +2

The schools I've mentioned above were schools with presidents who were not committed to FBS level football and let football go into the tank.

If the leadership is rock solid eventually the dominos will fall into place.

Dr. Martin and Heather are two reason we will prevail. They will move heaven and earth to see us succeed.

It is Dr. Martin's job to keep the regents on the right path and avoid making mistakes caused by frustration at our football program.

Getting back to the Old Testament, but weren't the prophets spat at, literally threatened to be tossed over cliffs, etc.??

It isn't easy and I have great respect for Dr. Martin's determination, energy, etc.

So long as she believes, I'll believe.

(09-22-2014 12:12 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(09-22-2014 10:56 AM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  As long as Susan Martin and Heather Lyke are here, we wil not drop down. Martin has made it clear, numerous times, she has every intention of keeping us in the FBS. Lyke is driven, and I'm sure has aspirations for an AD job with greater prestige and greater pay than EMU. The Board of Regents appears to support Martin's decision as well, especially with increasing the athletics budget this year and giving Lyke more autonomy in spending it.

Frank,

I could not agree with you more. +2

The schools I've mentioned above were schools with presidents who were not committed to FBS level football and let football go into the tank.

If the leadership is rock solid eventually the dominos will fall into place.

Dr. Martin and Heather are two reason we will prevail. They will move heaven and earth to see us succeed.

It is Dr. Martin's job to keep the regents on the right path and avoid making mistakes caused by frustration at our football program.

Getting back to the Old Testament, but weren't the prophets spat at, literally threatened to be tossed over cliffs, etc.??

It isn't easy and I have great respect for Dr. Martin's determination, energy, etc.

So long as she believes, I'll believe.

Getting back to the Old Testament, but weren't the prophets spat at, literally threatened to be tossed over cliffs, etc.??

Yes, almost as much as the typical EMU football fan.