(09-22-2014 02:54 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  I think people are forgetting that even though they may be down NOW, USF, Uconn, and Cincy ALL have BCS bowl game appearances under their belt. Houston was one win away from having the same. And overall their attendance is still much better than the Sunbelt, even with USF.

Cincinnati and UConn have all gone to BCS bowl games primarily as the Big East winner, which had an automatic BCS tie-in. That's the only way an 8-4 UConn team got in. They have an 0-3 record. USF has never gone to a BCS bowl game.

Oklahoma 48
UConn 20

Florida 51
Cincinnati 24

Virginia Tech 20
Cincinnati 7

(09-23-2014 10:38 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(09-22-2014 02:54 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  I think people are forgetting that even though they may be down NOW, USF, Uconn, and Cincy ALL have BCS bowl game appearances under their belt. Houston was one win away from having the same. And overall their attendance is still much better than the Sunbelt, even with USF.

Cincinnati and UConn have all gone to BCS bowl games primarily as the Big East winner, which had an automatic BCS tie-in. That's the only way an 8-4 UConn team got in. They have an 0-3 record. USF has never gone to a BCS bowl game.

Oklahoma 48
UConn 20

Florida 51
Cincinnati 24

Virginia Tech 20
Cincinnati 7

You're right. The best bowls USF has been to are probably the Sun Bowl vs. Oregon and Meineke Bowl vs. Clemson (a win over Clemson BTW).

Oh, and for an example of what USF attendance can be, please do a youtube search for USF vs. West Virginia in 2007. 67,000+ fans and a hard sellout of Raymond James Stadium. The Florida State game had 69K, but they brought a bunch of fans. As I have shown above USF has had 5 or 6 60K crowds and a bunch of 50K crowds. Of course we'll need a LOT of work to get back to that.

(09-23-2014 09:56 AM)panama Wrote:  This thread is embarrassing, mostly because of the ignorance of G5/Non AQ football history by a few who obviously have never watched. USF was the model and most successful startup in history. Period. For there even be a discussion because they have had a couple down years after a decade plus of stellar ones is ridiculous.

Embarrassing might be a stretch, but I have to agree with you here. Being in the position GSU is in right now, it's reassuring to look at a program like USF and think, "Okay, even they're having issues." But there would be no point in thinking we shouldn't follow their model if given the opportunity!

(09-23-2014 09:56 AM)panama Wrote:  This thread is embarrassing, mostly because of the ignorance of G5/Non AQ football history by a few who obviously have never watched. USF was the model and most successful startup in history. Period. For there even be a discussion because they have had a couple down years after a decade plus of stellar ones is ridiculous.

Very true, but when I think of college football, I think about college towns who have grown over the years from a grass roots level, local support effort from winning. No doubt what USF has done, and did in its first few years are amazing, but just not what I think of when I think of college football.

I can appreciate the ECU method more.

(09-23-2014 10:49 AM)Ole Sleepy Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 09:56 AM)panama Wrote:  This thread is embarrassing, mostly because of the ignorance of G5/Non AQ football history by a few who obviously have never watched. USF was the model and most successful startup in history. Period. For there even be a discussion because they have had a couple down years after a decade plus of stellar ones is ridiculous.

Very true, but when I think of college football, I think about college towns who have grown over the years from a grass roots level, local support effort from winning. No doubt what USF has done, and did in its first few years are amazing, but just not what I think of when I think of college football.

I can appreciate the ECU method more.

USF is the model of how to buy into big college football. Not how to build into it.

(09-23-2014 10:52 AM)The Black Flag Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 10:49 AM)Ole Sleepy Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 09:56 AM)panama Wrote:  This thread is embarrassing, mostly because of the ignorance of G5/Non AQ football history by a few who obviously have never watched. USF was the model and most successful startup in history. Period. For there even be a discussion because they have had a couple down years after a decade plus of stellar ones is ridiculous.

Very true, but when I think of college football, I think about college towns who have grown over the years from a grass roots level, local support effort from winning. No doubt what USF has done, and did in its first few years are amazing, but just not what I think of when I think of college football.

I can appreciate the ECU method more.

USF is the model of how to buy into big college football. Not how to build into it.

What exactly are you trying to say?

(09-23-2014 10:44 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 10:38 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(09-22-2014 02:54 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  I think people are forgetting that even though they may be down NOW, USF, Uconn, and Cincy ALL have BCS bowl game appearances under their belt. Houston was one win away from having the same. And overall their attendance is still much better than the Sunbelt, even with USF.

Cincinnati and UConn have all gone to BCS bowl games primarily as the Big East winner, which had an automatic BCS tie-in. That's the only way an 8-4 UConn team got in. They have an 0-3 record. USF has never gone to a BCS bowl game.

Oklahoma 48
UConn 20

Florida 51
Cincinnati 24

Virginia Tech 20
Cincinnati 7

You're right. The best bowls USF has been to are probably the Sun Bowl vs. Oregon and Meineke Bowl vs. Clemson (a win over Clemson BTW).

Oh, and for an example of what USF attendance can be, please do a youtube search for USF vs. West Virginia in 2007. 67,000+ fans and a hard sellout of Raymond James Stadium. The Florida State game had 69K, but they brought a bunch of fans. As I have shown above USF has had 5 or 6 60K crowds and a bunch of 50K crowds. Of course we'll need a LOT of work to get back to that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not ragging on USF or the AAC. I was only stating how those BCS appearances (especially in UConn's case and in one of Cincy's case) were due to conference tie-in alone. The 12-0 Cincy team deserved to go to the BCS, even if they got demolished by Florida.

UCF went to a BCS Bowl too

(09-23-2014 10:49 AM)Ole Sleepy Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 09:56 AM)panama Wrote:  This thread is embarrassing, mostly because of the ignorance of G5/Non AQ football history by a few who obviously have never watched. USF was the model and most successful startup in history. Period. For there even be a discussion because they have had a couple down years after a decade plus of stellar ones is ridiculous.

Very true, but when I think of college football, I think about college towns who have grown over the years from a grass roots level, local support effort from winning. No doubt what USF has done, and did in its first few years are amazing, but just not what I think of when I think of college football.

I can appreciate the ECU method more.

What ECU method? ECU was never FCS and isnt a startup. They have been playing forever. No comparisom at all. So obviously there is a bias here where college football shouldnt be played in major cities.

(09-23-2014 09:35 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  I will chime in here.

USF attendance is pathetic right now to many factors. Being relegated from BCS is one. Winning 2 games last year is another. Playing in a torrential downpour is another. An angry/apathetic fan base due to the above is another. No excuses for that, those are just fact.

Having said that, you do realize that USF average 50K fans a game for several years running, don't you. Here are the top attended USF games, most coming between the years 2007-2010 in the Big East when USF was winning and playing better competition.

USF top 20 home crowds:

1._______69,383_ _______Florida St._ ___________ 9/29/12_______ FSU______ 30-17
2._______67,012_ _______West Virginia_ _________ 9/28/07_______ USF______ 21-13
3._______66,469_ _______Miami_ ____________ 11/28/09_______ UM______ 31-10
4._______65,948_ _______UCF_______________ 10/13/07_______ USF______ 64-12
5._______63,976_ _______Cincinnati_ __________ 10/15/09_______ UC_ _____ 34-17
6._______58,755_ _______Kansas_ _____________ 9/12/08_______ USF______ 37-34
7._______57,379_ _______Cincinnati_ ___________ 11/3/07_______ UC_ _____ 38-33
8._______57,288_ _______Louisville____________ 11/17/07_______ USF______ 55-17
9._______56,328_ _______West Virginia_ ________ 10/30/09_______ USF______ 30-19
10._ _____51,384_ _______Syracuse____________ 10/18/08_______ USF______ 45-13
11._ _____50,307_ _______Pittsburgh____________ 10/2/08_______ Pitt______ 26-21
12._ _____49,388_ _______Louisville____________ 11/21/09_______ USF______ 34-22
13._ _____49,212_ _______Kentucky Wesleyan_______ 9/6/97*_______ USF______ 80-3
14._______ 48,058_________ UT-Martin_______________ 8/30/08________ USF_______ 56-7
15._______ 47,216_________ Rutgers_ ______________ 11/15/08________ RU_ ______ 49-16
16._ _____45,274_ _______West Virginia_ _________ 12/3/05_______WVU_ ____ 28-13
17._ _____45,139_ _______UCF________________ 9/17/05_______ USF______ 31-14
18._ _____44,219_ _______Rutgers______________ 9/13/12_______ RU______ 23-13
19._ _____43,122_ _______Florida A&M___________ 9/10/05_______ USF______ 37-3
20._______ 42,422_________ UConn________________ 10/23/08________ USF_______ 17-13

Of those top twenty crowds 10 were against Big East teams no longer on USF's schedule. Only three teams on that list will make regular visits to Raymond James. Two of those were for UCF which is obviously going to draw big crowds Furthermore, 14 of those crowds came in a 3 year stretch of 2007-08-09, USF's glory years in the Big East. Other than the #1 crowd, where Nole fans outnumbered Bulls fans, there has only been 1 game added to the list in 4 years.

Two years as a 1-A independent USF averaged 26,000. Two years in CUSA 28,800. In eight years playing the Big East USF averaged in the 30's two years, 40's four years and 50's two years. First year in AAC less than 35K. Four home games into the second AAC season against a FCS, Big Ten, ACC & AAC team USF is averaging 29,137 (if you want to believe there were 28,723 for the UConn game in the picture). The game against FCS Western Carolina drew the largest of the year @ 31,642. There is a reason behind USF's decline in attendance and it's not just W's & L's.

Other than UCF, Cinn and ECU there are no other AAC games which will bring out big crowds to Raymond James. Occasional games with FSU, Miami and UF will bring out big numbers, but for the most part I believe USF's big attendance years are over. Fans are fickle in big city markets. When USF was in the Big East it rivaled the ACC in status. That isn't the case with the AAC.

(09-23-2014 09:56 AM)panama Wrote:  This thread is embarrassing, mostly because of the ignorance of G5/Non AQ football history by a few who obviously have never watched. USF was the model and most successful startup in history. Period. For there even be a discussion because they have had a couple down years after a decade plus of stellar ones is ridiculous.

Not embarrassing, factual and looking at trends. Which for USF is clearly downward in terms of attendance.

Big towns follow programs that are new and/or good. Look at Miami for longer term results. Now back it down for G5 programs as people in big cities only go to games that they see as the trendy thing to do.

In the years USF wins they'll be fine, same as most of us.

(09-23-2014 11:55 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 09:56 AM)panama Wrote:  This thread is embarrassing, mostly because of the ignorance of G5/Non AQ football history by a few who obviously have never watched. USF was the model and most successful startup in history. Period. For there even be a discussion because they have had a couple down years after a decade plus of stellar ones is ridiculous.

Not embarrassing, factual and looking at trends. Which for USF is clearly downward in terms of attendance.

Because they have won 5 games in 2 years.

(09-23-2014 12:09 PM)panama Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 11:55 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 09:56 AM)panama Wrote:  This thread is embarrassing, mostly because of the ignorance of G5/Non AQ football history by a few who obviously have never watched. USF was the model and most successful startup in history. Period. For there even be a discussion because they have had a couple down years after a decade plus of stellar ones is ridiculous.

Not embarrassing, factual and looking at trends. Which for USF is clearly downward in terms of attendance.

Because they have won 5 games in 2 years.

That'll do it. {end of thread}

(09-23-2014 11:09 AM)panama Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 10:49 AM)Ole Sleepy Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 09:56 AM)panama Wrote:  This thread is embarrassing, mostly because of the ignorance of G5/Non AQ football history by a few who obviously have never watched. USF was the model and most successful startup in history. Period. For there even be a discussion because they have had a couple down years after a decade plus of stellar ones is ridiculous.

Very true, but when I think of college football, I think about college towns who have grown over the years from a grass roots level, local support effort from winning. No doubt what USF has done, and did in its first few years are amazing, but just not what I think of when I think of college football.

I can appreciate the ECU method more.

What ECU method? ECU was never FCS and isnt a startup. They have been playing forever. No comparisom at all. So obviously there is a bias here where college football shouldnt be played in major cities.

You know, having the involvement of the local community, creating a gameday atmosphere and culture that is attractive to many, climbing up the ladder one W at a time, paying your dues in college football, etc.

Their foundation was slowly built and has been progressively (generally speaking) growing. When you have local die hards, you can sustain the weathering from sub .500 seasons a lot longer than you can in a city where there are tons of other things people would rather do than watch their team lose.

I had a friend who worked for the Kinston Indians (minor league baseball near Greenville) and he invited me up for an ECU game. Out freaking standing gameday experience! I had no clue the fan base they had was so, well, in tune with the team and its history. Everyone I spoke to could speak intelligently (well, maybe a little belligerently) about ECU football. It immediately made me think this is where GS should have been if we would have had a football team all that time, or would have moved up to D1A 20 years ago.

(09-23-2014 12:53 PM)Ole Sleepy Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 11:09 AM)panama Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 10:49 AM)Ole Sleepy Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 09:56 AM)panama Wrote:  This thread is embarrassing, mostly because of the ignorance of G5/Non AQ football history by a few who obviously have never watched. USF was the model and most successful startup in history. Period. For there even be a discussion because they have had a couple down years after a decade plus of stellar ones is ridiculous.

Very true, but when I think of college football, I think about college towns who have grown over the years from a grass roots level, local support effort from winning. No doubt what USF has done, and did in its first few years are amazing, but just not what I think of when I think of college football.

I can appreciate the ECU method more.

What ECU method? ECU was never FCS and isnt a startup. They have been playing forever. No comparisom at all. So obviously there is a bias here where college football shouldnt be played in major cities.

You know, having the involvement of the local community, creating a gameday atmosphere and culture that is attractive to many, climbing up the ladder one W at a time, paying your dues in college football, etc.

Their foundation was slowly built and has been progressively (generally speaking) growing. When you have local die hards, you can sustain the weathering from sub .500 seasons a lot longer than you can in a city where there are tons of other things people would rather do than watch their team lose.

I had a friend who worked for the Kinston Indians (minor league baseball near Greenville) and he invited me up for an ECU game. Out freaking standing gameday experience! I had no clue the fan base they had was so, well, in tune with the team and its history. Everyone I spoke to could speak intelligently (well, maybe a little belligerently) about ECU football. It immediately made me think this is where GS should have been if we would have had a football team all that time, or would have moved up to D1A 20 years ago.

ECU is an anomaly. They are 4 hours from the major population centers of the state as well as from the other universities in the state. Its a very unique situation. Being in a city does not preclude developing a generational fan base. Houston and Memphis have that. What people dont realize is that averaging 50k a game in the G% is unrealistic. The majority of the G5 averages 25k or less.

(09-23-2014 11:53 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 09:35 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  I will chime in here.

USF attendance is pathetic right now to many factors. Being relegated from BCS is one. Winning 2 games last year is another. Playing in a torrential downpour is another. An angry/apathetic fan base due to the above is another. No excuses for that, those are just fact.

Having said that, you do realize that USF average 50K fans a game for several years running, don't you. Here are the top attended USF games, most coming between the years 2007-2010 in the Big East when USF was winning and playing better competition.

USF top 20 home crowds:

1._______69,383_ _______Florida St._ ___________ 9/29/12_______ FSU______ 30-17
2._______67,012_ _______West Virginia_ _________ 9/28/07_______ USF______ 21-13
3._______66,469_ _______Miami_ ____________ 11/28/09_______ UM______ 31-10
4._______65,948_ _______UCF_______________ 10/13/07_______ USF______ 64-12
5._______63,976_ _______Cincinnati_ __________ 10/15/09_______ UC_ _____ 34-17
6._______58,755_ _______Kansas_ _____________ 9/12/08_______ USF______ 37-34
7._______57,379_ _______Cincinnati_ ___________ 11/3/07_______ UC_ _____ 38-33
8._______57,288_ _______Louisville____________ 11/17/07_______ USF______ 55-17
9._______56,328_ _______West Virginia_ ________ 10/30/09_______ USF______ 30-19
10._ _____51,384_ _______Syracuse____________ 10/18/08_______ USF______ 45-13
11._ _____50,307_ _______Pittsburgh____________ 10/2/08_______ Pitt______ 26-21
12._ _____49,388_ _______Louisville____________ 11/21/09_______ USF______ 34-22
13._ _____49,212_ _______Kentucky Wesleyan_______ 9/6/97*_______ USF______ 80-3
14._______ 48,058_________ UT-Martin_______________ 8/30/08________ USF_______ 56-7
15._______ 47,216_________ Rutgers_ ______________ 11/15/08________ RU_ ______ 49-16
16._ _____45,274_ _______West Virginia_ _________ 12/3/05_______WVU_ ____ 28-13
17._ _____45,139_ _______UCF________________ 9/17/05_______ USF______ 31-14
18._ _____44,219_ _______Rutgers______________ 9/13/12_______ RU______ 23-13
19._ _____43,122_ _______Florida A&M___________ 9/10/05_______ USF______ 37-3
20._______ 42,422_________ UConn________________ 10/23/08________ USF_______ 17-13

Of those top twenty crowds 10 were against Big East teams no longer on USF's schedule. Only three teams on that list will make regular visits to Raymond James. Two of those were for UCF which is obviously going to draw big crowds Furthermore, 14 of those crowds came in a 3 year stretch of 2007-08-09, USF's glory years in the Big East. Other than the #1 crowd, where Nole fans outnumbered Bulls fans, there has only been 1 game added to the list in 4 years.

Two years as a 1-A independent USF averaged 26,000. Two years in CUSA 28,800. In eight years playing the Big East USF averaged in the 30's two years, 40's four years and 50's two years. First year in AAC less than 35K. Four home games into the second AAC season against a FCS, Big Ten, ACC & AAC team USF is averaging 29,137 (if you want to believe there were 28,723 for the UConn game in the picture). The game against FCS Western Carolina drew the largest of the year @ 31,642. There is a reason behind USF's decline in attendance and it's not just W's & L's.

Other than UCF, Cinn and ECU there are no other AAC games which will bring out big crowds to Raymond James. Occasional games with FSU, Miami and UF will bring out big numbers, but for the most part I believe USF's big attendance years are over. Fans are fickle in big city markets. When USF was in the Big East it rivaled the ACC in status. That isn't the case with the AAC.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you, I only posted what has happened in the past, and what is possible in the future under the right circumstances. If USF wins big again and schedules smartly (ie. brings in top OOC opponents), there's no reason why USF can't draw 45-50K again, IMO. If you know anything about Tampa, it's a bandwagon town. Win, and fans will flock in. Lose, and out they go. That's just the way it is.

USF has Florida State and UCF obviously on future schedules. ECU, Conn, and Cinn could draw well under the right situation (not in a torrential downpour coming off a 2 win season). While I somewhat agree with your premise, I do believe USF can rebound partially or even completely to 2007-10 levels with wins. It will happen. Attendance is poor to say the least right now. No argument there.

(09-23-2014 01:30 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 11:53 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 09:35 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  I will chime in here.

USF attendance is pathetic right now to many factors. Being relegated from BCS is one. Winning 2 games last year is another. Playing in a torrential downpour is another. An angry/apathetic fan base due to the above is another. No excuses for that, those are just fact.

Having said that, you do realize that USF average 50K fans a game for several years running, don't you. Here are the top attended USF games, most coming between the years 2007-2010 in the Big East when USF was winning and playing better competition.

USF top 20 home crowds:

1._______69,383_ _______Florida St._ ___________ 9/29/12_______ FSU______ 30-17
2._______67,012_ _______West Virginia_ _________ 9/28/07_______ USF______ 21-13
3._______66,469_ _______Miami_ ____________ 11/28/09_______ UM______ 31-10
4._______65,948_ _______UCF_______________ 10/13/07_______ USF______ 64-12
5._______63,976_ _______Cincinnati_ __________ 10/15/09_______ UC_ _____ 34-17
6._______58,755_ _______Kansas_ _____________ 9/12/08_______ USF______ 37-34
7._______57,379_ _______Cincinnati_ ___________ 11/3/07_______ UC_ _____ 38-33
8._______57,288_ _______Louisville____________ 11/17/07_______ USF______ 55-17
9._______56,328_ _______West Virginia_ ________ 10/30/09_______ USF______ 30-19
10._ _____51,384_ _______Syracuse____________ 10/18/08_______ USF______ 45-13
11._ _____50,307_ _______Pittsburgh____________ 10/2/08_______ Pitt______ 26-21
12._ _____49,388_ _______Louisville____________ 11/21/09_______ USF______ 34-22
13._ _____49,212_ _______Kentucky Wesleyan_______ 9/6/97*_______ USF______ 80-3
14._______ 48,058_________ UT-Martin_______________ 8/30/08________ USF_______ 56-7
15._______ 47,216_________ Rutgers_ ______________ 11/15/08________ RU_ ______ 49-16
16._ _____45,274_ _______West Virginia_ _________ 12/3/05_______WVU_ ____ 28-13
17._ _____45,139_ _______UCF________________ 9/17/05_______ USF______ 31-14
18._ _____44,219_ _______Rutgers______________ 9/13/12_______ RU______ 23-13
19._ _____43,122_ _______Florida A&M___________ 9/10/05_______ USF______ 37-3
20._______ 42,422_________ UConn________________ 10/23/08________ USF_______ 17-13

Of those top twenty crowds 10 were against Big East teams no longer on USF's schedule. Only three teams on that list will make regular visits to Raymond James. Two of those were for UCF which is obviously going to draw big crowds Furthermore, 14 of those crowds came in a 3 year stretch of 2007-08-09, USF's glory years in the Big East. Other than the #1 crowd, where Nole fans outnumbered Bulls fans, there has only been 1 game added to the list in 4 years.

Two years as a 1-A independent USF averaged 26,000. Two years in CUSA 28,800. In eight years playing the Big East USF averaged in the 30's two years, 40's four years and 50's two years. First year in AAC less than 35K. Four home games into the second AAC season against a FCS, Big Ten, ACC & AAC team USF is averaging 29,137 (if you want to believe there were 28,723 for the UConn game in the picture). The game against FCS Western Carolina drew the largest of the year @ 31,642. There is a reason behind USF's decline in attendance and it's not just W's & L's.

Other than UCF, Cinn and ECU there are no other AAC games which will bring out big crowds to Raymond James. Occasional games with FSU, Miami and UF will bring out big numbers, but for the most part I believe USF's big attendance years are over. Fans are fickle in big city markets. When USF was in the Big East it rivaled the ACC in status. That isn't the case with the AAC.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you, I only posted what has happened in the past, and what is possible in the future under the right circumstances. If USF wins big again and schedules smartly (ie. brings in top OOC opponents), there's no reason why USF can't draw 45-50K again, IMO. If you know anything about Tampa, it's a bandwagon town. Win, and fans will flock in. Lose, and out they go. That's just the way it is.

USF has Florida State and UCF obviously on future schedules. ECU, Conn, and Cinn could draw well under the right situation (not in a torrential downpour coming off a 2 win season). While I somewhat agree with your premise, I do believe USF can rebound partially or even completely to 2007-10 levels with wins. It will happen. Attendance is poor to say the least right now. No argument there.

If USF had an OCS we wouldnt even be having this discussion. Overall I could live with USFs history and upside.

At this point most of your fans would be happy with Wofford's history. :-D

(09-23-2014 02:34 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  At this point most of your fans would be happy with Wofford's history. :-D

...and now you can put your pants back on. Thanks