Wow. Basically, the video talks about cops seizing money from people until they can prove they weren't doing something against the law, even if they weren't.
One guy had $6,000 in cash that he won in Vegas taken from him.
Another had $17,000+ taken from him when he was going to DC to buy supplies for his BBQ restaurant.
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2014 10:31 AM by Niner National.)
RE: ‘Your property is guilty until you prove it innocent’
I've been infuriated about this since I first learned about it decades ago. I can't see why there isn't a greater protest.
I've posted links where a guy in my hometown was robbed but they didn't get is safe. When the cops found out there was $400K in the safe, they alerted the FBI, and the feds took it! (Even worse, the comments on the local message board challenged the man to prove he earned the money legally. Bitter, envious neighbors were delighted to see this man's life savings confiscated)
I've also posted the story where a guy in Ft Wayne had $15K taken from his car b/c the cops thought he was going to go buy drugs with it.
Similar stories abound, yet it gets little attention.
RE: ‘Your property is guilty until you prove it innocent’
Quote:Under civil forfeiture laws, law enforcement can take property suspected of involvement in criminal activity without convicting or charging the owner with a crime. In most places, agencies involved in the forfeiture, including prosecutors and police departments, can keep some or all of the proceeds for their own use.
Defenders of the practice, including law enforcement officers interviewed by the Post, insist that civil forfeiture is about stopping crime, not seizing cash. But the Post’s reporting and IJ’s new report suggest otherwise. The report, Bad Apples or Bad Laws? Testing the Incentives of Civil Forfeiture, details a cutting-edge experiment to determine whether the incentives in civil forfeiture laws change behavior, and if so, how. The results show that they do—and not in a good way: Civil forfeiture’s profit motive creates a strong temptation for law enforcement to seize property to pad their own budgets.
RE: ‘Your property is guilty until you prove it innocent’
The Institute for Justice has filed a class action lawsuit challenging Philadelphia's abusive use of civil forfeiture.
Quote:Philadelphia’s automated, machine-like forfeiture scheme is unprecedented in size. From 2002 to 2012, Philadelphia took in over $64 million in forfeiture funds—or almost $6 million per year. In 2011 alone, the city’s prosecutors filed 6,560 forfeiture petitions to take cash, cars, homes and other property. The Philadelphia District Attorney’s office used over $25 million of that $64 million to pay salaries, including the salaries of the very prosecutors who brought the forfeiture actions. This is almost twice as much as what all other Pennsylvania counties spent on salaries combined.
RE: ‘Your property is guilty until you prove it innocent’
What infuriates me even more is that I've never heard a Christian church or org speak out against this. I did read one RC idiot who thought these were great b/c they were helping pay for the "war on drugs." I've stopped reading that site.
RE: ‘Your property is guilty until you prove it innocent’
(09-17-2014 12:01 PM)DrTorch Wrote: What infuriates me even more is that I've never heard a Christian church or org speak out against this. I did read one RC idiot who thought these were great b/c they were helping pay for the "war on drugs." I've stopped reading that site.
What can the churches do? Hell I've never even heard of this, first time.
RE: ‘Your property is guilty until you prove it innocent’
(09-17-2014 12:06 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:
(09-17-2014 12:01 PM)DrTorch Wrote: What infuriates me even more is that I've never heard a Christian church or org speak out against this. I did read one RC idiot who thought these were great b/c they were helping pay for the "war on drugs." I've stopped reading that site.
What can the churches do? Hell I've never even heard of this, first time.
Many (if not all) of the social injustices that have been changed were spurred on by activism among Christian churches. When they build coalitions and rally their members, things can happen.
Jesus started his ministry proclaiming He was here (in part) "To set at liberty those who are oppressed." The role of the Church is to continue that ministry.
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2014 12:14 PM by DrTorch.)
RE: ‘Your property is guilty until you prove it innocent’
(09-17-2014 12:09 PM)DrTorch Wrote:
(09-17-2014 12:06 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:
(09-17-2014 12:01 PM)DrTorch Wrote: What infuriates me even more is that I've never heard a Christian church or org speak out against this. I did read one RC idiot who thought these were great b/c they were helping pay for the "war on drugs." I've stopped reading that site.
What can the churches do? Hell I've never even heard of this, first time.
Many (if not all) of the social injustices that have been changed were spurred on by activism among Christian churches. When they build coalitions and rally their members, things can happen.
Jesus started his ministry proclaiming He was here (in part) "To set at liberty those who are oppressed." The role of the Church is to continue that ministry.
so that spanish inquisition thingy.....we just smooth that over and forget.....that makes sense....
btw, how's that holy land thingy working out after a couple of grand (yrs)
Wow. Basically, the video talks about cops seizing money from people until they can prove they weren't doing something against the law, even if they weren't.
One guy had $6,000 in cash that he won in Vegas taken from him.
Another had $17,000+ taken from him when he was going to DC to buy supplies for his BBQ restaurant.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2014 06:40 PM by sparkomemphis.)
Quote:Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
All that the Fifth Amendment requires for property to be seized is that the due process of law is afforded to the owner. For all of its many faults (and they are legion), civil forfeiture is a process of law, one that was recognized at the time this country was founded in limited circumstances (typically related to people trying to avoid import duties). The question of whether the process afforded satisfies the due process clause, however, must be determined statute by statute or even at more discrete levels if the policies and practices of different jurisdictions are sufficiently different.
RE: ‘Your property is guilty until you prove it innocent’
As it stands now....YOU are property of the State. They get to use your future labor to borrow money without your consent. Any thing that stands in the governments way of being able to collect the fruits of your labor to pay that debt?..makes you a criminal. If that is not bad enough?...They have now enacted laws such as this that derail due process and the rule of law and make the government nothing more than "highwaymen" robbing the citizenry to fund its bloated bureaucracy under the guise of "public safety" . We have crossed our Rubicon. We will one day look back and understand where we fcked up and destroyed a great nation.
RE: ‘Your property is guilty until you prove it innocent’
Just a thought. Say You sell a car on Craig's list, A Guy or Gal comes out and buys the car with Cash. You take the cash and deposit it in the bank only to find out the cash was taken or was used in a robbery or some other crime. Can You then become the victim and have cash taken away even though You had a legitimate transaction that can be verified ?
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2014 05:00 AM by CardFan1.)
RE: ‘Your property is guilty until you prove it innocent’
(09-17-2014 12:09 PM)DrTorch Wrote:
(09-17-2014 12:06 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:
(09-17-2014 12:01 PM)DrTorch Wrote: What infuriates me even more is that I've never heard a Christian church or org speak out against this. I did read one RC idiot who thought these were great b/c they were helping pay for the "war on drugs." I've stopped reading that site.
What can the churches do? Hell I've never even heard of this, first time.
Many (if not all) of the social injustices that have been changed were spurred on by activism among Christian churches. When they build coalitions and rally their members, things can happen.
Jesus started his ministry proclaiming He was here (in part) "To set at liberty those who are oppressed." The role of the Church is to continue that ministry.
Not that I disagree with your overall point but "set at liberty" means to release from prison" and "those who are oppressed" means "captive".
Jesus came to free us from the prison of our sin and it's consequence.
That being said the Church does have a huge stake in this. The path we set upon in the erosion of any freedom will eventually find it's way to the door of the church.
RE: ‘Your property is guilty until you prove it innocent’
(09-18-2014 06:38 PM)stinkfist Wrote:
(09-17-2014 12:09 PM)DrTorch Wrote:
(09-17-2014 12:06 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:
(09-17-2014 12:01 PM)DrTorch Wrote: What infuriates me even more is that I've never heard a Christian church or org speak out against this. I did read one RC idiot who thought these were great b/c they were helping pay for the "war on drugs." I've stopped reading that site.
What can the churches do? Hell I've never even heard of this, first time.
Many (if not all) of the social injustices that have been changed were spurred on by activism among Christian churches. When they build coalitions and rally their members, things can happen.
Jesus started his ministry proclaiming He was here (in part) "To set at liberty those who are oppressed." The role of the Church is to continue that ministry.
so that spanish inquisition thingy
Yeah, why don't you elaborate on that. If you think you can make a point, do so. Or did a voice in your head tell you to write that, and you don't know what it means?
RE: ‘Your property is guilty until you prove it innocent’
A searing indictment of civil asset forfeiture by two people who were instrumental in getting the whole thing started. Better late than never.
Quote:Last week, The Post published a series of in-depth articles about the abuses spawned by the law enforcement practice known as civil asset forfeiture. As two people who were heavily involved in the creation of the asset forfeiture initiative at the Justice Department in the 1980s, we find it particularly painful to watch as the heavy hand of government goes amok. The program began with good intentions but now, having failed in both purpose and execution, it should be abolished.
RE: ‘Your property is guilty until you prove it innocent’
(09-19-2014 04:58 AM)CardFan1 Wrote: Just a thought. Say You sell a car on Craig's list, A Guy or Gal comes out and buys the car with Cash. You take the cash and deposit it in the bank only to find out the cash was taken or was used in a robbery or some other crime. Can You then become the victim and have cash taken away even though You had a legitimate transaction that can be verified ?
It depends. If they want to assume you knew the cash was stolen then they can seize the cash and you have to prove that you are an innocent owner. But with a Craig's List sale, it's probably more likely that they will let you keep the money and seize the car instead. Unless the actual money that you received was stolen--I believe the original owners still have a superior claim even if your transaction was completely legitimate.
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‘Your property is guilty until you prove it innocent’
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