Here's ESPN's description of the Orange Bowl selection process, with bolded parts that sound weird:

"The ACC representative will play the highest available ranked team from Notre Dame, the SEC or the Big Ten. However, if the ACC's highest-ranked opponent would create a regular-season rematch, the Orange Bowl has the flexibility to avoid that rematch by taking the next highest-ranked team from Notre Dame, the SEC or Big Ten. The team that was "skipped" over would be placed in an access bowl as long as it meets the minimum ranking requirement.

When the Orange Bowl hosts the national semifinals, the ACC champion and the highest-ranked available team from Notre Dame, the Big Ten or the SEC will be placed in an access bowl instead."

What's weird?

1) As far as I can tell, there is no "minimum ranking requirement" for filling Access slots. There is no rule like there was in the BCS that says a school must be ranked in the top 14 or top 12 or whatever to be eligible for an Access slot. Those spots are filled by the highest-ranked available teams (i.e., teams not in the playoffs or bound to a contract bowl) as determined by the CFP committee. So what does this "minimum ranking requirement" refer to?

2) Notre Dame is limited to two appearances in the Orange Bowl, but what if Notre Dame has already played in the OB twice and yet is available and is higher-ranked than any other available SEC or B1G team in a year when the Orange is hosting a playoff. Can ND fill the Access spot or would it go to the highest available SEC or B1G team? I think the latter but am not 100% sure.

As an aside, this second bolded text is EXTREMELY sweet for the B1G and SEC. It gives each another FOUR chances to place yet another team in an Access bowl.

(09-16-2014 02:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Here's ESPN's description of the Orange Bowl selection process, with bolded parts that sound weird:

"The ACC representative will play the highest available ranked team from Notre Dame, the SEC or the Big Ten. However, if the ACC's highest-ranked opponent would create a regular-season rematch, the Orange Bowl has the flexibility to avoid that rematch by taking the next highest-ranked team from Notre Dame, the SEC or Big Ten. The team that was "skipped" over would be placed in an access bowl as long as it meets the minimum ranking requirement.

When the Orange Bowl hosts the national semifinals, the ACC champion and the highest-ranked available team from Notre Dame, the Big Ten or the SEC will be placed in an access bowl instead."

What's weird?

1) As far as I can tell, there is no "minimum ranking requirement" for filling Access slots. There is no rule like there was in the BCS that says a school must be ranked in the top 14 or top 12 or whatever to be eligible for an Access slot. Those spots are filled by the highest-ranked available teams (i.e., teams not in the playoffs or bound to a contract bowl) as determined by the CFP committee. So what does this "minimum ranking requirement" refer to?

2) Notre Dame is limited to two appearances in the Orange Bowl, but what if Notre Dame has already played in the OB twice and yet is available and is higher-ranked than any other available SEC or B1G team in a year when the Orange is hosting a playoff. Can ND fill the Access spot or would it go to the highest available SEC or B1G team? I think the latter but am not 100% sure.

As an aside, this second bolded text is EXTREMELY sweet for the B1G and SEC. It gives each another FOUR chances to place yet another team in an Access bowl.

The rankings cannot be skipped in most cases like they could in the BCS era. So the Big10 or SEC school that is skipped, will be placed in another access bowl---assuming there is an open slot left after the contract slots are filled and every school from the Pac-12, Big-12, ACC, or G5 that out ranks them in the selection committee rankings has been slotted. There is no official minimum ranking requirement, but effectively there is (its just different every year depending on where the slots fall in the contract bowls/playoffs).

As far as Notre Dame goes, sounds like they can go to the Orange Bowl twice based on the contract agreement--beyond that, they have to be selected as an "at large" based on the seasons performance just like any other indy.

(09-16-2014 02:23 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  As far as Notre Dame goes, sounds like they can go to the Orange Bowl twice based on the contract agreement--beyond that, they have to be selected as an "at large" based on the seasons performance just like any other indy.

Yep, Notre Dame can go to the Orange Bowl twice during the 8 years the Orange isn't hosting a playoff. Other than that, they must either make the playoffs or get ranked high enough to make an Access Bowl. Those are their only options.

(09-16-2014 02:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Here's ESPN's description of the Orange Bowl selection process, with bolded parts that sound weird:

"The ACC representative will play the highest available ranked team from Notre Dame, the SEC or the Big Ten. However, if the ACC's highest-ranked opponent would create a regular-season rematch, the Orange Bowl has the flexibility to avoid that rematch by taking the next highest-ranked team from Notre Dame, the SEC or Big Ten. The team that was "skipped" over would be placed in an access bowl as long as it meets the minimum ranking requirement.

1) As far as I can tell, there is no "minimum ranking requirement" for filling Access slots. There is no rule like there was in the BCS that says a school must be ranked in the top 14 or top 12 or whatever to be eligible for an Access slot. Those spots are filled by the highest-ranked available teams (i.e., teams not in the playoffs or bound to a contract bowl) as determined by the CFP committee. So what does this "minimum ranking requirement" refer to?

Most likely, that the skipped over team is going to an Access Bowl if the Orange Bowl doesn't take them. It covers the contingency where the highest-ranked available SEC/B1G/ND team would produce an Orange Bowl rematch, but wouldn't rank high enough to make an Access Bowl. The OB can't use the rematch clause to dump #12 for #14.

If my reading is right, it means that the Orange Bowl can only use the rematch card to bump South Carolina (for example) to an Access Bowl. If bumping South Carolina from the Orange means that South Carolina goes to the Cap One Bowl, then no bump.

(09-16-2014 06:45 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(09-16-2014 02:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Here's ESPN's description of the Orange Bowl selection process, with bolded parts that sound weird:

"The ACC representative will play the highest available ranked team from Notre Dame, the SEC or the Big Ten. However, if the ACC's highest-ranked opponent would create a regular-season rematch, the Orange Bowl has the flexibility to avoid that rematch by taking the next highest-ranked team from Notre Dame, the SEC or Big Ten. The team that was "skipped" over would be placed in an access bowl as long as it meets the minimum ranking requirement.

1) As far as I can tell, there is no "minimum ranking requirement" for filling Access slots. There is no rule like there was in the BCS that says a school must be ranked in the top 14 or top 12 or whatever to be eligible for an Access slot. Those spots are filled by the highest-ranked available teams (i.e., teams not in the playoffs or bound to a contract bowl) as determined by the CFP committee. So what does this "minimum ranking requirement" refer to?

Most likely, that the skipped over team is going to an Access Bowl if the Orange Bowl doesn't take them. It covers the contingency where the highest-ranked available SEC/B1G/ND team would produce an Orange Bowl rematch, but wouldn't rank high enough to make an Access Bowl. The OB can't use the rematch clause to dump #12 for #14.

If my reading is right, it means that the Orange Bowl can only use the rematch card to bump South Carolina (for example) to an Access Bowl. If bumping South Carolina from the Orange means that South Carolina goes to the Cap One Bowl, then no bump.

What you say would seem to make sense, as it would appear to be a rather large injustice to that bumped team to not only miss out on the Orange Bowl but be out of all the high-prestige Access Bowls.

Nevertheless, the wording of the statement doesn't seem to guarantee that outcome. It looks like a team could get bumped by the rematch clause right out of the major bowls.

(09-16-2014 07:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-16-2014 06:45 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(09-16-2014 02:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Here's ESPN's description of the Orange Bowl selection process, with bolded parts that sound weird:

"The ACC representative will play the highest available ranked team from Notre Dame, the SEC or the Big Ten. However, if the ACC's highest-ranked opponent would create a regular-season rematch, the Orange Bowl has the flexibility to avoid that rematch by taking the next highest-ranked team from Notre Dame, the SEC or Big Ten. The team that was "skipped" over would be placed in an access bowl as long as it meets the minimum ranking requirement.

1) As far as I can tell, there is no "minimum ranking requirement" for filling Access slots. There is no rule like there was in the BCS that says a school must be ranked in the top 14 or top 12 or whatever to be eligible for an Access slot. Those spots are filled by the highest-ranked available teams (i.e., teams not in the playoffs or bound to a contract bowl) as determined by the CFP committee. So what does this "minimum ranking requirement" refer to?

Most likely, that the skipped over team is going to an Access Bowl if the Orange Bowl doesn't take them. It covers the contingency where the highest-ranked available SEC/B1G/ND team would produce an Orange Bowl rematch, but wouldn't rank high enough to make an Access Bowl. The OB can't use the rematch clause to dump #12 for #14.

If my reading is right, it means that the Orange Bowl can only use the rematch card to bump South Carolina (for example) to an Access Bowl. If bumping South Carolina from the Orange means that South Carolina goes to the Cap One Bowl, then no bump.

What you say would seem to make sense, as it would appear to be a rather large injustice to that bumped team to not only miss out on the Orange Bowl but be out of all the high-prestige Access Bowls.

Nevertheless, the wording of the statement doesn't seem to guarantee that outcome. It looks like a team could get bumped by the rematch clause right out of the major bowls.

I think you're right. #12 South Carolina would not "meet the minimum ranking requirement." OB can use the rematch clause to bump if they want to, even if it means that SC goes to the Cap One instead of the Orange Bowl.

and the highest-ranked available team from Notre Dame, the Big Ten or the SEC will be placed in an access bowl instead."

I'm not sure this is accurate.

(09-16-2014 08:29 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  and the highest-ranked available team from Notre Dame, the Big Ten or the SEC will be placed in an access bowl instead."

I'm not sure this is accurate.

They should have used the word "could" instead of "will." I agree that this is inaccurate based on the rules. Remember, these were some of the same folks who initially said last season that the AAC would not get an AQ spot if NIU or Fresno was in the top 16.

We're all struggling with the process as we just haven't been through this before. Even gurus such as Jerry Palm have made mistakes in the new framework. The CFP is complicated and difficult for most to understand, which makes it all the more likely that it could get replaced before the end of even the first 3-year cycle. Speaking of that, have those CFP bowl contracts been signed yet?

(09-16-2014 08:29 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  and the highest-ranked available team from Notre Dame, the Big Ten or the SEC will be placed in an access bowl instead."

I'm not sure this is accurate.

It does make a modicum of sense: all the conferences in the other contract bowls (Rose and Sugar) get their teams in Access bowls when those bowls host playoffs, and the ACC does to when the Orange is a playoff bowl, so why should the other contracted party to the Orange (in this case the SEC/B1G/ND combo) be treated different?

It is a very sweet deal for the B1G and SEC.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(09-16-2014 09:17 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-16-2014 08:29 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  and the highest-ranked available team from Notre Dame, the Big Ten or the SEC will be placed in an access bowl instead."

I'm not sure this is accurate.

It does make a modicum of sense: all the conferences in the other contract bowls (Rose and Sugar) get their teams in Access bowls when those bowls host playoffs, and the ACC does to when the Orange is a playoff bowl, so why should the other contracted party to the Orange (in this case the SEC/B1G/ND combo) be treated different?

It is a very sweet deal for the B1G and SEC.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

This deal was one reason the Pac-12 and Big-12 were at one point considering the possibility of being on the other side of a contract bowl with the AAC.

(09-16-2014 06:45 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(09-16-2014 02:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Here's ESPN's description of the Orange Bowl selection process, with bolded parts that sound weird:

"The ACC representative will play the highest available ranked team from Notre Dame, the SEC or the Big Ten. However, if the ACC's highest-ranked opponent would create a regular-season rematch, the Orange Bowl has the flexibility to avoid that rematch by taking the next highest-ranked team from Notre Dame, the SEC or Big Ten. The team that was "skipped" over would be placed in an access bowl as long as it meets the minimum ranking requirement.

1) As far as I can tell, there is no "minimum ranking requirement" for filling Access slots. There is no rule like there was in the BCS that says a school must be ranked in the top 14 or top 12 or whatever to be eligible for an Access slot. Those spots are filled by the highest-ranked available teams (i.e., teams not in the playoffs or bound to a contract bowl) as determined by the CFP committee. So what does this "minimum ranking requirement" refer to?

Most likely, that the skipped over team is going to an Access Bowl if the Orange Bowl doesn't take them. It covers the contingency where the highest-ranked available SEC/B1G/ND team would produce an Orange Bowl rematch, but wouldn't rank high enough to make an Access Bowl. The OB can't use the rematch clause to dump #12 for #14.

If my reading is right, it means that the Orange Bowl can only use the rematch card to bump South Carolina (for example) to an Access Bowl. If bumping South Carolina from the Orange means that South Carolina goes to the Cap One Bowl, then no bump.

That's my reading as well. It sounds like the circumstances of making a choice that would result in "unfairly" excluding a team from the CFP bowls altogether would be very unusual. In nearly all scenarios the OB will either be taking the highest-ranked team from their "pool" or, effectively, trading that team to an access bowl in exchange for a team that otherwise would have played in an access bowl.

(09-16-2014 09:17 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-16-2014 08:29 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  and the highest-ranked available team from Notre Dame, the Big Ten or the SEC will be placed in an access bowl instead."

I'm not sure this is accurate.

It does make a modicum of sense: all the conferences in the other contract bowls (Rose and Sugar) get their teams in Access bowls when those bowls host playoffs, and the ACC does to when the Orange is a playoff bowl, so why should the other contracted party to the Orange (in this case the SEC/B1G/ND combo) be treated different?

It is a very sweet deal for the B1G and SEC.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

That's not necessarily true. If the conference champion makes the playoff, there's no further guarantee of a team in an access bowl. The requirement is that each of the P5 conference champions are placed in one of the 6 major bowls whether it's playoff, contract or access. For the Orange Bowl, we're talking about non-champions for the SEC and Big 10. Except for this article, I haven't seen anywhere else that mentions any non-champion is guaranteed a spot anywhere except in their conference's host bowl.

yeah, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else?
same with the 'minimum ranking'

(09-17-2014 04:28 AM)prp Wrote:  

(09-16-2014 09:17 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-16-2014 08:29 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  and the highest-ranked available team from Notre Dame, the Big Ten or the SEC will be placed in an access bowl instead."

I'm not sure this is accurate.

It does make a modicum of sense: all the conferences in the other contract bowls (Rose and Sugar) get their teams in Access bowls when those bowls host playoffs, and the ACC does to when the Orange is a playoff bowl, so why should the other contracted party to the Orange (in this case the SEC/B1G/ND combo) be treated different?

It is a very sweet deal for the B1G and SEC.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

That's not necessarily true. If the conference champion makes the playoff, there's no further guarantee of a team in an access bowl. The requirement is that each of the P5 conference champions are placed in one of the 6 major bowls whether it's playoff, contract or access. For the Orange Bowl, we're talking about non-champions for the SEC and Big 10. Except for this article, I haven't seen anywhere else that mentions any non-champion is guaranteed a spot anywhere except in their conference's host bowl.

I agree, which is why i said those clauses seemed 'ambiguous' to me.

I do get that in the case of the other 5 contract bowl slots, it is a P5 Champion that is being displaced by their contract bowl serving as a playoff bowl.

Still, the B1G/SEC/Notre Dame do have a contract with the Orange Bowl as well, and their contract is being displaced when the Orange serves as a playoff bowl too, so conceptually at least, it makes sense to me that they too would get placed in an Access Bowl during that time. Because a possible reading of the CFP agreement is that contracted conferences (not necessarily just the conference champions) are guaranteed a spot in an Access Bowl, and the B1G and SEC are just fortunate enough to have two contracts.

It's a tough one to figure out.

I'd say look at the Orange Bowl's blurb that I posted on the other thread....
The Big Ten and SEC will receive a minimum of three Orange Bowl appearances each during the eight games and Notre Dame
may make up to two appearances in the eight games.

So does not look at all like the SEC/Big Ten/ND have that guarantee in the years that the Orange is hosting the SF.

I think there's a little misinterpretation here. It's more like:

1. The ACC will take the highest Big Ten, SEC team or Notre Dame.
2. It can skip over a team because it's a rematch or for minimum number of times requirement.
3. If a team is skipped over, it can end up in an access bowl if the committee has them ranked high enough.
4. If that team is not ranked high enough (doubtful to ever happen frankly given the number of possible teams and the fact they choose ahead of the access bowls), then the team is not in an access bowl.

So it's not a guarantee of anything. It's just saying the team will likely be in another CFP bowl providing it's high enough in the committee's eyes.

Edit: As for the placement of teams, the only teams that will be automatically put in access bowls are displaced conference champs and the the highest Group of 5 champ. That's been stated multiple times. Anything saying a second team from any conference is automatically in anything except their contract bowls (Rose, Sugar, Orange themselves) is incorrect.

(09-17-2014 08:11 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I'd say look at the Orange Bowl's blurb that I posted on the other thread....
The Big Ten and SEC will receive a minimum of three Orange Bowl appearances each during the eight games and Notre Dame
may make up to two appearances in the eight games.

So does not look at all like the SEC/Big Ten/ND have that guarantee in the years that the Orange is hosting the SF.

Your blurb does not address the issue that is raised here by the ESPN article. It is silent on what happens to the B1G/SEC/ND team that would have gone to the Orange had the Orange not been hosting a playoff.

(09-17-2014 09:10 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I think there's a little misinterpretation here. It's more like:

1. The ACC will take the highest Big Ten, SEC team or Notre Dame.
2. It can skip over a team because it's a rematch or for minimum number of times requirement.
3. If a team is skipped over, it can end up in an access bowl if the committee has them ranked high enough.
4. If that team is not ranked high enough (doubtful to ever happen frankly given the number of possible teams and the fact they choose ahead of the access bowls), then the team is not in an access bowl.

So it's not a guarantee of anything. It's just saying the team will likely be in another CFP bowl providing it's high enough in the committee's eyes.

Edit: As for the placement of teams, the only teams that will be automatically put in access bowls are displaced conference champs and the the highest Group of 5 champ. That's been stated multiple times. Anything saying a second team from any conference is automatically in anything except their contract bowls (Rose, Sugar, Orange themselves) is incorrect.

I have highlighted statements above that I believe are incorrect or unsupported.

1. First, the ACC does not "take" anything. Neither does the Orange Bowl. Neither have any discretion to deviate from the terms of the contracts signed with the SEC, B1G, and Notre Dame. The ACC doesn't control anything here. It is a partner to a contract like all the other parties and has to follow its terms.

2. The Orange Bowl, not the ACC, does have the discretion to skip over an SEC/B1G/ND team if that creates a rematch it does not like, but again, that is not the ACC's call, it is the Orange Bowl's call.

As for your #3, that is exactly what is in question: The ESPN article refers to a "minimum ranking requirement", but nowhere in the CFP is there any such requirement for any team to fill any non-playoff contract or access bowl.

As for #4, that's your view, but the ESPN article disagrees. That's the issue as well.

(09-17-2014 09:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 08:11 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I'd say look at the Orange Bowl's blurb that I posted on the other thread....
The Big Ten and SEC will receive a minimum of three Orange Bowl appearances each during the eight games and Notre Dame
may make up to two appearances in the eight games.

So does not look at all like the SEC/Big Ten/ND have that guarantee in the years that the Orange is hosting the SF.

Your blurb does not address the issue that is raised here by the ESPN article. It is silent on what happens to the B1G/SEC/ND team that would have gone to the Orange had the Orange not been hosting a playoff.

I think I would take what the Orange Bowl is posting over what ESPN is posting. The ACC champion is guaranteed a slot in the CFP, not the SEC/Big Ten/ND team when the Orange is hosting a SF.

What is ambiguous is what the threshold will be for the rematch scenario. If UF is a bubble team at 13/14 and two SEC teams ahead of them make the playoff, and the B1G champ is in the Rose, and the ACC Champ is out of the top 4, and ACC vs UF is a rematch, how far down would they be able to go? What if ND and B1G second place have terrible years? Would the OB be stuck with the rematch no matter what? You need a perfect storm scenario for this, but it is a possibility.